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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 06:34AM

This is all we know so far:

A retired man with financial means wanted to kill a large number of people by shooting at them from above -- not by gas or explosives or some other indirect means -- and then kill himself.

He had no credible links to terrorist or white nationalist groups.

What if he was just mentally deranged?

What if there was no motive?

What if there is no reason?

Must everything in the Universe be initiated for a purpose?

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 08:29AM

To quote Michael Caine's character in "The Dark Knight:"

Some men just want to see the world burn.

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Posted by: Guardian ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 09:28AM

No motive for human behavior? Even dogs have a "motive" to bark.

http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2017/10/the-las-vegas-shooter-didnt-just-snap-they-never-do/

Same site/writer had a link from two years ago at the bottom of the page:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/mass-shootings-threat-assessment-shooter-fbi-columbine/


I didn't vet the sources or statistics. I don't know the reputation of the site or author. Right now, my primary interest is in learning about how to support efforts to identify and stop people with motives most of us don't want to think about.

I don't want to think about it, but I will. I don't want to be the neighbor or brother or girlfriend. After so many years of being a victim, my "survivorhood" came to include the peace and serenity found in only the solitude and illusion of security within my own dwelling. It took many years to put that illusion back into place, an illusion that many take for granted.

People may think on it from time to time, have alarms and cameras installed, a gun locked up in a safe. But, windows are made of glass, hardly impenetrable, and something most homes "boast."

I don't want to live in a concrete bunker. I like windows, too. It's time to hit the books again, start paying more attention to those in my neighborhood, those in my sphere.

Every human capable of thought has motives. One thing I'm keeping in mind is controlling behaviors, asserting one's will onto others. It seems that there are those who do this successfully, and are satisfied in harming the individuals in their sphere. Those who are unsuccessful in their desires to control others retain the desire, just as all of us retain our "preferences."

We can identify and predict that those who exhibit controlling behaviors have unhealthy, often dangerous individual relationships. I'd like to learn the critera for identifying those with the same desires, who are unsuccessful in their personal spheres. I'm not sure that's possible for an individual, so failing that, I'd like to support the laws, teams and programs that do this work.

I wonder if this shooter had just enough control of others for most of his life, then lost it and "rebelled" in his final act of ultimate control.

I have a stinking feeling that there will be crackpot novices trying to con a buck, who will give rise to a spate of "McMartin" type of paranoia events, in pursuit of that buck. That ultimately would have the opposite effect, and those types bear careful scrutiny and harsh criticism, possibly legal punishment.

For the links above, again, unvetted. Also worth mentioning is the Diane Sawyer / Sue Klebold interview, available on Youtube. It seems this latest shooter found his control of others. I have no intent on letting him keep it.

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Posted by: stellam ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 09:45PM

Reading The Gift of Fear (you can find it free in PDF if you Google around enough) really helped me understand where and how this kind of violence happens and what signs to look for.

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 09:39AM

By any chance was this guy a returned missionary?

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Posted by: L Tom Petty ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 07:46PM

Yeah, I mean that white t-shirt thing under his shirt. Maybe an endowed mormon?

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Posted by: Happy_Heretic ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 11:12AM

Given the amount of time, effort, and planning that went into his massacre, there was definitely a motive. Unmotivated people do nothing.

HH =)

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 11:48AM

I watched an interview with a researcher on mass shootings. She said that this man was out of the normal age range by being in his 60s. She also said that normally there is a motive, i.e. the shooter's finances are spiraling, etc.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 11:26AM

I think, "I'll show them!!", is about the best they'll do, leaving those who care asking 'show us what?', with tons of possibilities offered.

And one guess will be correct!

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Posted by: scmd ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 06:35PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think, "I'll show them!!", is about the best
> they'll do, leaving those who care asking 'show us
> what?', with tons of possibilities offered.
>
> And one guess will be correct!


I suspect you're right.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 11:46AM

Reports today are saying he was taking meds that may have made him aggressive. But, aggressive is one thing, he planned and executed that with cold calculation and effectiveness.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 12:35PM

The FBI might know what it likely is, but they're not going to tell the public until they've investigated more fully and are sure of the facts.

Humans have motives for what they do.

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Posted by: iflewover ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 06:18PM

Occum's Razor tells me his high roller gambling habit cost him big. I think he's been on a prolonged losing streak and determined Vegas was the cause of all of his problems.

Went out in a blaze designed to give the city some of the hurting it had been dishing out to him.

Time will tell - he left plenty of clues.

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 07:05PM

Pardon my cynicism but perhaps the next time,or the time after that, we can capture the shooter and ask him.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 07:33PM

It would be nice, but this guy, like most of them, killed himself as soon as LE closed in.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 07:44PM

attys fix Motive as a part of "mens rea", which is a necessary element of many crimes to obtain a conviction.
It means the INTENT of an actor to do an unlawful act.

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Posted by: spiritist ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 08:12PM

I am going to be following any new 'medium, RV or channeler' posts to see if they can contact him. They did a lot of work on Jesus, 9/11, aliens, etc.

Hopefully, one can find out the true 'motive' and put it out on Utube. Then we can compare that to whatever the Government releases.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2017 08:18PM by spiritist.

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Posted by: binkyboo ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 08:44PM

No freethinkers are allowed on this board, as I have just found out.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 09:47PM

binkyboo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No freethinkers are allowed on this board, as I
> have just found out.

I am not sure what you mean about freethinkers (since I consider myself a freethinker on every issue and subject I am aware of)...

...but RfM is not the board to be introducing, or discussing, conspiracy theories.

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 09:10PM

Awful stuff.

Remember 'the man in black', Johnny Cash, who held concerts at prisons (as he knew, through having been in one, how awful it was to be there). (He accompanied himself with his guitar, and often his wife, June Carter, was with him.)

He sang, "I shot a man in (Reno?), just to watch him die", and the prisoners in the audience ROARED their approval.

It seems to me that some people just don't have anything more to do in their life than to think up awful things they can do--To make a name for themselves? To feel important? Even to brag about?

So, so, sad.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 09:59PM

On my way to jury duty yesterday, I was listening to a radio program about the Las Vegas shooter, and the expert in criminal behavioral analysis (I assume, from what he was saying) being interviewed was clear that this particular shooter, so far as is known, did not fit any of the profile characteristics of mass murderers, with the sole exception of his gender (male).

He was substantially outside of the age range of known mass murderers...he was in what appears to be a long and stable relationship...he had no known financial problems (and was, so far as is known, affluent)...he had standing in his community and was well regarded by those who knew him...he had friends and associates with whom he had good relationships...there were no known health problems (he had not been told he had a terminal condition)...

Nothing "fits"...except that he was male and the fact that he did, indeed, kill and maim 600 or so people.

In the years to come, it is going to be very interesting to read the various analyses of what actually did prompt this man to use his many weapons to commit mass murder.

He and his story are certainly going to be included in future textbooks on criminal profiling and criminal behavior---and I very much hope he remains the sole example of whatever-it-was that prompted him to do what he did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/05/2017 12:19AM by Tevai.

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Posted by: xxMMMooo ( )
Date: October 05, 2017 12:47AM

All the above, also ...

a small arms expert / marksman (w/no military history?)
private pilot
video streaming tech (had cameras set up outside room)
accountant
real estate investor
gambler
no serious record (that we know of)
no Internet footprint or social media (that we know of)
son of a former bank robber wanted for years by the FBI
wired $100k to Philippines recently

None of this combined adds up. He would've fit the profile of a right-wing nutjob or a violent racialist like Brevik, but his choice of target (country music concert, mostly white victims) undermines that.

A man with his knowledge of guns, tech, video, gambling, and real estate was intelligent enough (and really needed) to use the Internet extensively for research and business purposes, yet he seems to have left no internet trail.

Something ain't adding up!

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Posted by: ClarificationPlease ( )
Date: October 05, 2017 04:49PM

Why “right wing nut job?” Why not left wing nut job?

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: October 06, 2017 08:07AM

If the murderer was a "left wing" nut job the republican media would have let us know.
Since they are keeping a lid on it, the guy must be a drumpf voter.

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Posted by: Guardian ( )
Date: October 06, 2017 08:47AM

First twitch there is because a left wing nut job would use pepper spray.

- Left wing nut jobs hate guns and "gun money," but would need to learn all about guns to do this, buy them, become comfortable with "gun folk" to learn to shoot them, all the gear.

Note to call out differences between left, right, and nut job. No rational rightie or leftie would do this. This was not "revolution" or "war." This was slaughter.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 05, 2017 05:29PM

Another chilling thing is that he was apparently scoping out other concerts and venues, including a larger concert in Las Vegas the week prior, and an event in a Chicago stadium. He went so far as to rent places to stay in order to check out vantage points.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: October 04, 2017 10:05PM

The thought that we can't decipher the man and the motive frightens us. How many American men have an arsenal similar to his? A paid for political class lacks the will to respond. Storm clouds gather.

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Posted by: xxMMMooo ( )
Date: October 05, 2017 01:24AM

Las Vegas Strip mass murderer Stephen Paddock used his Mandalay Bay hotel room to fire bullets at jet fuel tanks Sunday night, a knowledgeable source told the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

The bullets left two holes in one of two circular white tanks. One of the bullets penetrated the tank, but did not cause a fire or explosion near the Route 91 Harvest country music festival, another knowledgeable source said late Wednesday.

The tanks are roughly 1,100 feet from the concert site, where Paddock killed 58 people and wounded almost 500. Several airplane hangars belonging to prominent corporations are also near the tanks.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/

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Posted by: East Coast Exmo ( )
Date: October 05, 2017 05:03PM

"Targeted" is a strong word. All we know now is that two bullets hit one of the fuel tanks.

The guy was spraying bullets at a high rate of fire for ten minutes, so it is not surprising that a lot of things were hit during the attack. None of that indicates intent.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: October 05, 2017 01:57AM

If he was deranged, it doesnt mean there wasnt a motive.Motives can be crazy and irrational, but people usually have some reason for what they do.You dont buy enough weapons and ammunitions to invade a small country and shoot a crowd of people after scoping out a venue and renting a suitable room without somen reason however irrational.Even if he was hallucinating and hearing voices, he had a reason.Besides was rational enough to plan it.

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Posted by: numbersRus ( )
Date: October 05, 2017 06:38PM

He is supposed to be a seer, revelator, prophet, right?

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: October 05, 2017 07:02PM

The shooter seemed to really believe in what he was doing. Maybe stopping him was infringing on his beliefs.

Why don't we follow Mormon rules here? LDS leaders believe in the crazy things they do that hurt people, so it's all okay.

Okay, it's an unfair comparison. The LV shooter only killed 50.

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Posted by: Rusty Shackleford ( )
Date: October 06, 2017 03:12AM

-No known criminal record
-No known social media or other internet trail
-Relatively wealthy but not in a conventional way
-Nobody suspected anything about him

This is where I live up to my nickname and suspect that his "secret life" that evaded detection by his family, friends, and associates may have been the type that would only be hinted at by redacted documents released years after the fact.

If that is the case, we'll never know in our lifetimes.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: October 06, 2017 03:41AM

than a random malignancy, floating in an unsuspecting growth medium.

It could happen to anyone, anywhere, at any time. And it's this randomness that scares us the most.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: October 06, 2017 08:00AM

All we can do is wonder....

Was he just an older guy facing the concept of his own mortality and nothingness?

Did he have some gambling deals gone bad?

Did he have some kind of post-traumatic stress trigger?

Was he really into violent movies/TV and wanted to act out the ideas he had about how to pull off a plan?

Maybe he was so into guns that he decided he would actually use them for what they are designed to do - in one grand fireworks show. (Kind of like an older guy who collects expensive cars that are never driven- one day he goes out and drives one like a race car).

Maybe he had a fascination with finding fame.

Maybe he was getting revenge at something or some concept.

Maybe he was having sexual issues or got his ego hurt in some way (might have other relationships gone sour).

Maybe he had a detached concept of humanity and had no filters for good and evil (apparently his dad didn't).

Maybe he was bored and decided there was really nothing else he wanted from life so he manufactured a grand adventure.

We know we can't know the thoughts of everyone to police them.

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Posted by: Whiskeytango ( )
Date: October 06, 2017 07:45PM

I saw her standin' on her front lawn just twirlin' her baton
Me and her went for a ride sir and ten innocent people died

From the town of Lincoln Nebraska with a sawed-off .410 on my lap
Through to the badlands of Wyoming I killed everything in my path

I can't say that I'm sorry for the things that we done

"At least for a little while sir me and her we had us some fun

The jury brought in a guilty verdict and the judge he sentenced me to death
Midnight in a prison storeroom with leather straps across my chest

Sheriff when the man pulls that switch sir and snaps my poor neck back
You make sure my pretty baby is sittin' right there on my lap

They declared me unfit to live said into that great void my soul'd
Be hurled
They wanted to know why I did what I did
Well sir I guess there's just a meanness in this world"

Nebraska
Bruce Springsteen-Song about Serial Killer Charles Starkweather

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