Hi Badass, I've had some new assignments at work and finally got around to checking out RfM. I scanned the names of the posters and read your posts. What a shitty week you've had, Badass! I'm very sorry to have read what's happened.

Adam, I'm not a doctor, counselor, or therapist, but I'm your friend who cares deeply about you. I'm going to type thoughts that may or may not make sense. I've got a lot to say, and I hope in my own way, this helps.

First, you are Badass Adam. You will always be fuckin' Badass Adam who doesn't take shit from anyone. This who you are and the way I see you.

Adam, as other posters mentioned, getting angry during recovery is normal and to be expected. People here appreciate the honesty. You had a shitty week, got angry, vented, and did so appropriately for a recovery group. Please don't worry about apologizing or worrying about RfM. We're with you in solidarity regarding recovery. Just get it out Badass, there are quiet folks here who don't post, but who will find great comfort and strength knowing that others, like you, are struggling with recovery and putting their lives together.

In one of your posts, you remarked that you are not Badass, you're (in your words) a coward. No way, Dude! You are courageous and you are in recovery for PTSD and other demons. There is no way that you are a coward. One of my big mistakes as a young man was thinking that I had no self-confidence. I constantly told myself I was no good, weird, not good-looking, stupid, and a total fuck up. Yeah, Adam, that's what I told myself. And Mormonism fed this fetish by making me feel less of a man and person through its constant bullshit of being perfect. Adam, I too, thought I was a coward. I was afraid of new people. In this state, I played mind-fuck games with myself--everyone else was okay, I was weird; I judged people; they must be judging me; and on and on.

Then, I realized, I had been fed a bunch of bullshit, and the only thing I was "guilty of" was negative self-thought and self-judgment. With the help of several therapists (I've been in counseling most of my adult life) I realized that all of the mind-fucks were simply my own negative thoughts. Ironically, Adam, all five of the counselors I've worked with through my life have been active LDS. Each listened to me and helped me come to grips with self-defeating behaviors and negative thought patterns. Religion was not a part of the discussion EXCEPT for help with determining my core values, beliefs, and desires. There was no judgment from the counselors--each was a skilled psychologist trained to help me determine who I was, my core essentials, and to help me understand the brutality of my negative thoughts.

So, Bro, you are the fuckin' Badass even though you might not feel like it right now.

Adam, there are many wonderful posters here. At the risk of playing favorites, Beth, Summer, Amyjo, Lottie, and La Saucie (hell, I could go on forever) give excellent thoughts and advice. I, too, would have recommended Catholic Charities.

So, CC, didn't work out for you and actually triggered deep emotional anxiety. Okay, it happened, no harm, no foul--but you did follow through.

No one knows, exactly, Badass, what enables recovery. It's a process. But, for most of us, one day, we wake up and realize, "My mind-fuck" is not the real me. It becomes liberating. It also is challenging--so if the mind-fuck is false and my church is false, what is true? Each of us get the right to determine what is truthful and of value for us.

Adam, I've never told this here, but I'm going to share this with you and all of my friends here will now know something about me. I'm an addict. I'm also in recovery. It took a long time to give something very harmful up. But, with help and my honesty with a skilled (and yes he was Mormon) therapist, I realized the root of the addiction was my self-created mind-fuck. Once I recognized that, the constant desires left. I've been in recovery for about 15 years with no desire to go back to my previous behavior.

Badass, this is an open forum. I'm not sharing what my issue was and I'd strongly advise you NEVER to share anything too personal about issues. We are NOT trained therapists and even if there are some here who are, you are NOT a patient. Be open and honest with your therapist. She is in a position to help you discover the real Adam. My hope for you is that you'll realize that mind-fucks are only a threat if we give them credence. You are NOT your mind-fuck.

The biggest mind-fuck of them all is self-destruction. Please write down the number for the suicide hotline above. Adam, I've had friends who are suicide-completers. I can't write about it, it's too brutal. If you are even thinking about the completion part, call the number above. Just talk, Adam.

So, Badass, this has been a totally rotten, fucked-up, shitty week! It will get better. And, I'd be lying if I said you won't have other shitty weeks. Adam, you are in recovery, you are FUCKING healing! You are one strong, courageous, wonderful man! How do I know this? I've read your posts.

So, now that the easy part is over with here, here's something I really struggle to say and write. It's going to sound hollow and unbelievable, but, Adam, I really care about you. Reading about your pain causes me pain because I was once hopeless, too. I love your posts. I laugh with you, cry with you, but mostly I fucking want you to realize the wonderful man you are underneath the mind-fuck.

Badass Adam, I love you, man! I wish I had the answers to your pain and hurt--I don't. But, I believe in you, and your ability to find the answers to the hurt and pain. And, Bro, I'm cheering you on and celebrating every little bit of progress you report.

Adam, I'm in a situation where I can't check RfM or post as much as I'd like. Please don't talk any not responding as I don't care. I've got some demons to take care of and I'm honored (fuck!) with more work-related responsibilities. I'll try to respond and check-in as I can.

Until then...go look in the mirror. See the man as the man you truly are--"I'm FUCKING BADASS Adam! I'm courageous! I'm healing! I'm unique, and I'm a survivor! I don't take shit from anyone, or shit from PTSD, or even my own shitty mind-fucks! I'm a strong man capable of healing. And, God damn it, I'm going to heal and get out of pain and get strong! Fuckin' A!!!!

With much love, respect, and friendship!

He has had a bad week fir sure. I have wondered where you have been not responding to his posts?

Now I know.

I love you Boner..... you are a wonderful, wonderful friend and your advice to Badass was so good. Thank you for being you. You help to make this place better because you are here.

BYU Boner, I hope to be a friend to people like you are. Gottawayz to go, but gonna try my damnedest.

Badass, I hope you're reading this because if anyone has your back it is the Boner.

Thanks for being a mensch.

Thanks boner i am trying very hard to figure out my problems both financial and physical and even mental. I am trying not to worry or panic too much right now. I do not believe locking myself up is the answer because that will not solve my issues. I had a pretty good talk with my counselor today and told her that i am afraid of getting better and having a real life such as being vulnerable and feeling love and having a family of my own. I was supposed to die at 29 years old boner that was the plan but things got reversed on me so i have been trying to figure out how to get better ever since because i dont want to get locked up again as i did at 29. I do feel there is a good person deep down underneath a ton of stones and pain but it is so hard to bring him out. I think i have been protecting myself with a false cover for many years and it is hard to snap back from that. Its hard to like what i see in the mirror still, i see a lot of pain on my face still and i dont really see a person full of life thats why i have been trying very hard to take care of my physical problems because it will help everything else out i feel including the chance that i could work again. I think another thing that discourages me is i dont really feel support from my father like my father doesnt want me to succeed and remain defeated in my corner forever. I cant really explain it but i feel like he fears me getting totally healthy because i know as he probably does that he was not innocent man no matter how many times he does the temple thing. That religion mind-f#cked me so bad boner both directly and indirectly that it is not even funny. You are right i do not know what is true, i know my body is in pain as truth but as far as the religious stuff i have no clue what is true and what isnt. I know the mormon church claims to be true and some great thing but to me its been the most harmful thing imaginable for the human mind. I think i am still in shock over the temple nonsense, i told my counselor that i wanted validation from someone deep in the religion to actually admit that it is all bullsh#t but even then i still think my mind needs a lot more time and counseling to get over the monstrous mind-f#ck of all time. I talked to a homeless guy that i knew today about how rough it was to live on the streets and he said pretty d@mn rough, i do fear being on the streets combined with my issues that i still have more than anything. I dont think anything is my fault i am a survivor of a horrible upbringing and still doesnt think he is safe from his father or the religion or people in the religion or the mormon jesus. Its sad but true i only feel safe when i am around one of my counselors and that is it. I am always afraid my father will try to stop my progress before i am healed. He is an aggressive control freak and a two face with a very dark side that few know about besides me. What do you do boner when you are young and you know everything is f#cked up around you but there isnt a d@mn thing you can do except hide. I appreciate you boner you make me believe that i can actually become a true man that i havent been before without the mindf#ck. I told my counselor that i deserved the beautiful and the white picket fence god d@mn it. Just didnt tell her that i wanted her as my wife haha all in due time all in due time. I need to get free of the mindf#ck first. Thanks boner you are my biggest supporter and my decline definitely shows when you are away. I never got true attention growing up i really was the blacksheep just because i didnt want to go along with the religion and dress up and go on a mission and be a fake person. Only on this forum have i gotten real support for not doing the temple thing and not doing the mission thing. But i got so much sh#t for a long time for not going i actually tried to resign when i was 20 years old because i was tired of the hassle but my dad was so angry with me and i really knew then he didnt want me as his son. I was the total f#ck up in everybody's eyes because i didnt want to be a part of what they were doing, but if i would have known the cult rituals exactly with the secret handshakes back then i would have not let them be so hard on me, i would have had way more ammunition against everybody but youtube didnt come till way later and same with google. They all had secrets nobody was honest with me or even their real selves they got new names for christs sakes i feel as if i never knew them at all. I was truly in a hell boner i thought their god was against me with his secret ways. And i would never get along with the true god because he did weird mormon sh#t or he accepted it. I was a true outcast and a loner and its hard to still not feel that way when what they said was the truth wasnt really the truth. I dont have an identity or even know why i am alive i just know i have been through a lot and i dont want to suffer that much and i want to feel smart again and not feel controlled or feel like being controlled is how i am supposed to live. It is a very difficult period that i think all of us go through after leaving that fantasy world. Its like a true crisis of who you really are as an individual and its kind of uncomfortable atleast at first but i do want to feel like a real authentic human being. There was nobody that was real in that religion, total mind control but they think thats normal and sane. Alright i wrote a lot and got a lot off of my mind thanks boner for all you say. I know i will reach a point where i am more satisfied with who i am.

Badass, I’m so glad you posted. Have you ever counted the number of replies you’ve gotten from us wankers here on RfM? Think about it, Bro, that’s a shit load of folks who care about you!

As always, Adam, your posts speak volumes about you. I have no doubts about your integrity because what you write is honest and truthful.

I work with a man who was almost blown apart in the Middle East. He has had more surgeries than imaginable to try to repair his body, face, and limbs. I don’t know of a finer man, but he’s had to go to hell and back with pain. He told me he decided to make the most of his life despite blindness, burns, physical limitations, and deep bouts with depression. I’ve learned a lot from him and I want to share a few things—

Badass, find something simple that you love doing and do it. For me, I have a deep love of music. When things get really bad, I have music that I listen to that helps me see beauty in the world. I know you like metal, how about you link some badass metal from YouTube, and I’ll listen to it.

You’ve said you’re in a lot of physical pain. That’s a big deal because hard pain can’t be ignored easily. You’ve been proactive in seeking medical help, I’m wondering if you’re close to a pain clinic where they can help with pain management through non-drug related therapies like meditation or stress reducers?

As far as your Dad is concerned, you’re going to have to become the adult in the relationship. That means that you will be the one to set the boundaries and center conversations around topics you want to talk about. Adam, I believe what you write. But, (only you can figure this out) as a Dad, I never want to see my children hurting. Is there a possibility that the mindfuck is at play here? Can you hug your Dad, or would that be too weird? (I was assigned to hug my Dad by a counselor when I was your age. When I finally did, my Dad held me a long time—he wanted the love, but didn’t know how to show it).

I don’t know how to help with the religion part, but I don’t think that it’s that big of an issue for you right now. I say that because you’ve figured it out and it has no power over you. If you want to post more on it, I’ll kick it around with you.

Okay, core values—it’s late and I’ve got a long day tomorrow. Let’s start knocking some holes in the mindfucks. A good way to do that is by defining who Badass is and what his core values are. If I may, what I see is a core value of yours is HONESTY. that’s what comes through in your posts. You crave honesty and you’re honest about what going on with your life. Adam, that’s a pretty impressive value. But, you’re an impressive man (you may not feel it right now, but give the Boner a little slack on this—you ARE impressive.

So, Bro, your turn...what else is central to the Badass?

Adam, I’ll get on board sometime tomorrow. I care. I value you and your friendship. My sincere hope is that you’ll find the man behind the hurt and see your own wonderfulness. Remember, the mindfuck isn’t the real Adam. As you proceed to punch holes in the worries and negative thinking, you’ll heal.

For my friend Badass Adam—I’m proud, as fuck, to get to know you here. I deeply care about you. You’re in recovery and will heal as you confront the mindfucks imposed upon you. In time, I know you’ll be a force for healing and recovery for others. I love you, Badass Adam!

Thanks boner i am getting tired too but one thing i do know about me is that i know that i have is honor. I dont know why i believe in honor so much but i just do. It even goes to the extreme of if i dont feel i can get better i will just fall on my sword like a true warrior, i guess there is a warrior in me as well. And dont mis-read honor as boner haha i know the letters are small i do not have a boner right now, i have honor haha. Everytime we talk i feel more healed then the last and i feel smarter and more clear headed so it is a healing process for sure. And i am surprised that people respond to my posts sometimes i just have to type stuff out and vent it out so real people can see it rather they respond or not. But i have been posting a lot over the last few weeks i have been kind of panicking a little bit on what i am going to do and i have snapped back at a lot of people on here if i get a smartass response because i dont like the situation i am in at all so i have been taking it out on some people which i shouldnt have.

Well, buddy, getting a boner is a big deal for me at my age. I'm always pleasantly surprised when it happens.

I agree that honor is an excellent trait, but, knock off that falling on the sword shit. I mean it Adam!

Now, get some sleep, wanker!

Ah fuck...I love you Adam.

Hahahahahaha you crack me up and i am trying my best to change the way i think and finding real solutions to my problems instead of the fall on my sword mentallity when i cant figure things out. I am on medications too that kind of hinder my sex drive so i am happy as hell when i get a boner too. Instead of being ashamed of having a boner as the religion scolds for i am proud as f#ck hahahaha. And i hope there is no god against boners as the mormon church makes you think because without the boner life would not be as funny we need the boner god damn it hahaha. I should never beat myself up for having one again.

Aww badass I'm so sorry your going through such a rough time! :( if I had money id definitely send it to you!!! I wish I did! You deserve it!!! I'm so sorry your feeling like this ive been through depression and have been the outcast among all my mormon relitives as well and it really does suck screw the church!!! Idk why life is so damn unfair to some people it truely is just wrong :( I wish I could take your pain away you deserve to be happy!!!!!!!!

And aww boner your an awesome amazing friend I really admire you!!!

Its really weird i dont want people to send me money at all but then i realize i wont be able to cover my bills next month then im like aww f#ck haha. I dont want to turn into the mormon. church accepting peoples money it goes against who i really am. But i have to be realistic i cant work yet and i can not under any circumstance live with family. A lawyer is supposed to call me and hopefully he can help me out, battling the system for help right now is too tough for me and too exhausting.

I know you don't want to ask for money, but at least consider opening a temporary Go Fund Me account. Tell just one of us about it. That person can tell others. No one would have to help who didn't want to help, but those of us who would like to could. You wouldn't have to ask anyone.

I dont even know what a Go Fund me account is i am so old school i guess. I just barely learned how paypal kind of works and created an account one of my old friends in arizona might help me out a little bit through that i guess. I really want the church to help me out because of all the tithing i put in i feel its the right thing to do but maybe i should really really cut that cord and move on from that idea i was going to give it a try and see but i havent heard back from the middleman that was going to talk to the bishop for me. But I dont even know if i will get completely better it could be a waste of money to help me out but i do think i have been improving for sure so i can not say that it isnt possible. I do want to try atleast one more surgery for my neck while i still have coverage. I really dont know when i can return to working a little bit but i feel that it will be soon.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont even know what a Go Fund me account is i am
> so old school i guess. I just barely learned how
> paypal kind of works and created an account one of
> my old friends in arizona might help me out a
> little bit through that i guess. I really want
> the church to help me out because of all the
> tithing i put in i feel its the right thing to do
> but maybe i should really really cut that cord and
> move on from that idea i was going to give it a
> try and see but i havent heard back from the
> middleman that was going to talk to the bishop for
> me. But I dont even know if i will get completely
> better it could be a waste of money to help me out
> but i do think i have been improving for sure so i
> can not say that it isnt possible. I do want to
> try atleast one more surgery for my neck while i
> still have coverage. I really dont know when i
> can return to working a little bit but i feel that
> it will be soon.

I'm not a social media techie, but I think the paypal thing could work the same way.

I still dont even know how the paypal thing works yet my friend will have to explain to me how to pay bills from paypal money somehow haha god i know nothing about this online stuff.

At least the money would be going towards a good cause and to someone who truely deserves it and not to greedy selfish lds Inc.! Ugh I never had a problem with tithing because I actually thought it was going towards helping people in need. HAH! What a fool I was! I am honestly still in shock over how greedy and selfish the church is I knew there was something a little off about the church I always thought that the whole if you don't get married in the temple God wont let you see your family again thing seemed a bit wrong but I had NO clue just how messed up the whole thing was! Ya cant get into the temple if ya don't pay tithing oh and don't associate with apostates so they cant tell you what a big huge fraud this all is!

How extremely munipulitive and evil not to mention those creepy death oaths they used to do I never went through the temple but my mom and friend told me they did them. The leaders in young women's always told us gals how peaceful the temple was. Ya pantomiming slitting your throat and gushing your bowels out sounds like the most peaceful event ever! Gosh! TRUELY makes me question there sanity!! I only went to the temple once to do the baptisms for the dead and I actually DID get quite a nice feeling in the temple but that was only because the guy baptizing me was really hot! Lol

But ya I think I would have freaked out a bit if I had done the death oaths especially after hearing about how "peaceful" it is the other stuff they do is really weird too its very creepy. man badass I really am sorry for all you've been through with your family especially your dad thatals just awful!! :( I will never understand how Mormons can act like there so loving and then turn there backs on you the next second its so Christlike of them isn't it? My mormon cousins all hang out together and leave me out of everything because im more introverted and a bit socially awkward and not a good little mormon girl my nutty tbm brother told me once " you just make us uncomfortable your so quiet and you don't go to church"

Wow nice huh?! Because Jesus totally only included mormony extroverts! All my mormon cousins went to a movie during thanksgiving and then told me. "Oh sorry we "forgot" to invite you!" Wow well thanks! Happy thanksgiving to me! And at family dinners they wouldnt even invite me to sit with them just acted like I didnt exist and expected me to wash there plates after dinner and watch there kids. Gosh I don't understand this kind of behavior I'm so sorry you've been the loner as well it sucks just know your NOT alone and can talk to us here at rfm whenever! This "religion" truely does cause so much awful ptsd im zo sorry for how much suffering its causes you! :( I truely hope the best for you badass! You deserve peace and happiness! And yes it truely is an awful "religion" and needs to go down to hell with Joe the man ho already!!!

Yea i was told about how great the temple was growing up as well and then i see it on youtube and i am still in shock about it all. My parents were literally doing death oaths when they went to the temple while i was an innocent kid just going to primary it is so crazy to think about. The religion just keeps getting darker and darker the older you get. And the rabbit hole of all the dirty secrets of the true history just keeps going and going. I thought my tithing was going to the poor as well if i would have known that it was paying for huge salaries for the guys at the top i would have kept the money i definitely need it back now. But i am going to go to where the bishop works tomorrow probably and see if i can be helped with no strings attached but this might be a bad idea.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yea i was told about how great the temple was
> growing up as well and then i see it on youtube
> and i am still in shock about it all. My parents
> were literally doing death oaths when they went to
> the temple while i was an innocent kid just going
> to primary it is so crazy to think about. The
> religion just keeps getting darker and darker the
> older you get. And the rabbit hole of all the
> dirty secrets of the true history just keeps going
> and going. I thought my tithing was going to the
> poor as well if i would have known that it was
> paying for huge salaries for the guys at the top i
> would have kept the money i definitely need it
> back now. But i am going to go to where the
> bishop works tomorrow probably and see if i can be
> helped with no strings attached but this might be
> a bad idea.


As long as you're prepared to walk away if he starts making demands, you'll be OK.

Fuck i dont think i am ready for a demands speech i think i am just going to go the lawyer route to get on SSI they are supposed to call me back sometime maybe today hopefully.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fuck i dont think i am ready for a demands speech
> i think i am just going to go the lawyer route to
> get on SSI they are supposed to call me back
> sometime maybe today hopefully.

That seems like a wise route.

I paid a lot of tithing. I'd be pretty happy to think you got some of it, Adam.

Thanks kathleen i appreciate that. A solution will happen i think the lawyer route is a great idea to get me on SSI that old dog suggested they just havent called me back yet i dont want to fight for myself anymore i need a professional to help me with this. I paid social security for more than twelve years atleadt so i dont feel that guilty about it i dont think.

I don't know anything about the process of applying, except that it is normal for SSI to turn down first time applicants, and then a year later for the reapplication to be approved.

As I mentioned previously, I see it as a possible 'system' for ripping off SSI, which is pretty much what happens when a large pot of gold sits there, waiting to be tapped. The rats start to nibble and then they find a way to make it work for them. I have zero proof that this happens, but I do know human beings.

The thing is, the law firms that do this, work on a contingency basis. There's never any money out of your pocket, and they won't take a case that they're certain the SSI will never approve. They get their money out of your first check, which was as previously pointed out, a whopper, since it is for ALL the months since your first application. That could either work for you or against you. If you first applied just a couple of months ago, you're in for a long wait for that first check, based on how the system runs now. There has to be a wait to make sure the first check is a big one. The bigger the pie, the bigger the law firm's piece.

If you applied a year or so ago, it ought to really speed things up! Don't be afraid to ask the legal rep (it's seldom the actual attorney) how long he/she thinks you're looking at before that first check.

Hopefully the process isnt too long i do not remember when i first applied maybe five years ago? I dont really remember what i did but i do remember going into the social security office for help back then. So should i assume i am in for a long haul? I need to see what i have to do if it will be a long haul.

I don't know enough about the process to be able to offer an opinion. I just know what happened when someone I know applied, and whom I did not think qualified. He was assured by his attorney that it was all running true to course and to just hang on for a year, during which time he saw some doctors recommended by the attorney.

From what little I do know, if you get to use the five years ago date, that first check would be huge, and the attorney should be pampering your Bad Ass!

when I was at the end of my rope--just like you are. They did help. It was very, very difficult to ask. I cried for days, but they did help.

At the time, my ex's old boyfriend who was not mormon was getting help from the lds church. My brother's MIL was getting help from the lds church and she hadn't been active in years, had blown through a $100,000 inheritance, and had been put in jail for 3 months for beating up her boyfriend. She was alcoholic.

You need your bills paid. You need to have access to food. I really liked their food personally. I hear a lot of bad about it, but it was really good food.

I hope you do get to talk to the lawyer. I believe you should qualify for SSI at the very least.

You thought all your goals you had for 29 were blown apart. So were many of those of us on the board. I never knew there were still dreams to be had as I grew older. I'm going through a rough time right now. It seems that life always has those times to throw at you.

Most of us here are a "testimony" to surviving. You are a survivor. You'll make it through this.

And just like others have said, if someone would set up a go fund me page, I'd be glad to contribute.

Your right Badass I also remember singing the songs in primary and thinking it was an innocent religion it REALLY does get darker and darker the older you get its very very creepy! I also watched the temple videos on youtube and was like WTF?! It IS very shocking! And ya god is totally protecting his sacred temple ceremony thats why its available for all to see on good ol youtube! ( thanks new name noah!) Lol Yes the men at top are SO evil I have no idea how they can sleep at night knowing that they are hurting and robbing good innocent people who desperately NEED there money it makes me want to throw up!!!
And well good luck with everything badass! I hope everything goes well for you you deserve it!

That innocent religion of the way it was supposed to be is still ingrained in my mind. And so now what the religion actually is an absolute shock to any child raised in the religion and kept in the blind. Newnamenoah is a hero in my book i could have wasted so many years striving for this horrible reality and my family could never tell me of this monstrosity, life could have been so much better if i had known the actual truth younger but i always sensed that something was off i could almost smell cult or feel cult as a teenager i just needed more validation and evidence that it actually was. But no adult admitted it so i always questioned if i could be wrong. But no they were all afraid for their lives if they talked.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That innocent religion of the way it was supposed
> to be is still ingrained in my mind. And so now
> what the religion actually is an absolute shock to
> any child raised in the religion and kept in the
> blind. Newnamenoah is a hero in my book i could
> have wasted so many years striving for this
> horrible reality and my family could never tell me
> of this monstrosity, life could have been so much
> better if i had known the actual truth younger but
> i always sensed that something was off i could
> almost smell cult or feel cult as a teenager i
> just needed more validation and evidence that it
> actually was. But no adult admitted it so i
> always questioned if i could be wrong. But no
> they were all afraid for their lives if they
> talked.

Adam, some of the people who taught you this nonsense probably truly believed it and maybe still do. I'm sure my own parents believe most of it. Part of what bothers me is that if any of it is phony, chances are that most of it is phony. My parents just don't want to consider it.

I'm sorry the cult has caused you so much grief :( it really is horrible of them to make it seem so innocent to the unsuspecting child. You sound like me I thought it was innocent as a child then as a teenager just like you I started to sense something was off with it but I also needed more validation or evidence. The way the Mormons were treating non members like they were second class citizens and the way they barged in on everyones bussiness and how they thought they needed to know every detail of everyones sex life and the glaring hypocrisy of it all like if I was stressed and I swore I was the devil but if THEY are stressed and THEY swore it was all ok and how they always treated me like I wasn't as good as them cause I was never as popular as they were but then bawled there eyes out during a church talk sayin how loving Mormons were yaaaa... really started to grind on my nerves was the reason I stopped goin to church in the first place.

The whole you need to get married in the temple or God wont let you be with your family again thing seemed off to me but I just never put two and two together took me a while to figure the whole scam thing out and yes new name Noah really is a hero I'm so glad hes putting the videos on youtube so people can see what they are really going to be getting themselves into! Mormons who haven't been through the temple yet will actually comment on his page and be like " that's not true! We don't do that in our temples and we never did death oaths your a liar!!! Just wait till they go through LOL I actually texted new name Noah a while ago and he filled me in on some of the fraudulent things going on in the cult it was nice of him to take the time to do that!

He told me he had his family read the CES letter and they were out my parents read that and they are out as well like you my parents really wished they had known sooner but at least we don't have to waste anymore time in the ridiculous creepy cult! We really could have done a lot funner and more productive things with our time and money if my parents had known sooner sucks stupid cult! At least were out now though. And ya no adult in my family admitted what when on in the temple either they all just said "I cant do this or this cause of the covenents and promises I made in the temple" little did I know those covenents included pantamiming slitting there throats! And ripping there intestines out! CREEPY And chanting "pay lay ale" also CREEPY!