Christianity replaced the ancient Greco-Roman religion and spread first to the east and then to Europe because of the Pax Romana. It was a religion for rich and poor, slaves and freedmen and people of all nations.

Mormonism is stuck in the mores of white settlers of the American frontier of the mid nineteenth century. Its creators never considered the future or changing social attitudes.

It's yet to be seen how the religion will change in the hands of Asians or Africans or if they will recreate Mormonism in their image and take it away from the hands of LD$, Inc.

It's great that Christianity never tortured or forced people to convert to their religion. Can you imagine being burned alive because you did not believe in Christ?

Good thing they never enslaved people of color. Never forced them to convert and never felt they were lesser beings and destroyed their civilizations and made them abandon their languages and heritage.

It's good Christianity never mobilzed the armies of several countries and invaded non christian countries.

Most of all it's good Christianity is united and never went to war among themselves over who had the correct teachings of god.

Religion as a team sport!! Religious hooliganism!!

Jesus wants me to sucker punch you if you aren't rooting for my team!

and that Mormonism is likely to remain an American white centric small cult unless radically changed.

anybody Wrote:
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> and that Mormonism is likely to remain an American
> white centric small cult unless radically changed.

OK.
Except most of mormonism's growth right now is outside of the US. And it *has* radically changed (though you might not know that if you only visit Utah), which is why most of mormonism's growth right now is among "not white and delightsome" people.

They "officially" tossed the racist doctrines, and now pretend they never existed. And there are plenty of people in the world who believe them when they insist they were never racist. Sad, I know...but true.

Other christian sects did the same thing -- just at different times. Heck, the Southern Baptists (a far bigger sect than the mormons, and with its origin in the US as well) only officially repudiated racism recently. They were perhaps even more racist than the mormons in the not-so-distant past...

What I wonder about most now is how long until non-whites become a significant part of the upper echelons of Mormon church leadership. Still only a smattering of color in the Quorums of the Seventy and none at all in the Top Fifteen. It's obvious they're fighting to the end against diversity in the two ruling quorums. They're terrified of what it would mean. I think they may be hoping for Jesus to come quickly and save them from the unknown.

lurking in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think they may
> be hoping for Jesus to come quickly and save them
> from the unknown.

Aw, come on -- you don't really think they actually believe that jesus is coming "back" soon, do you?

:)

and you can interpret it many different ways.

Mormonism, on the other hand, is theologically stunted.

They'd have to change the entire story in the "Book of Mormon" and the history and LD$, Inc. would have to come up with a new theophanic visitation to explain it all...

Mormonism has, even during my lifetime, displayed admirable flexibility. Is there a standard of flexibility against which to measure theirs?

I think this is true.

Most of the people of the world are not white, and those people who are white are secularizing at an extremely rapid rate.

I don't think the founders of Mormonism ever thought beyond, perhaps, three generations into the future...nor do I think that they saw any reason to.

I think they assumed that the world they lived in was, more or less, going to remain pretty much the same...and that they, as Americans, possessed the abundant physical space, and potentially the limitless physical resources, as well as the time, to gradually increase their influence over the white world, and then beyond.

Looking back at what we now know actually happened, I think the first real, popular awareness that unspoken Mormon assumptions were not accurate was World War I (1914-1918).

"How ya gonna keep them, down on the farm, after they've seen Pa-ree?" wasn't just a nationally popular song, it was the first dawning of American realization that we, the humans on this planet, are all in this together, on this same (increasingly "smaller") planet.

I think Mormon leadership has generally been in the back of the line on understanding this fact of life, as illustrated by their strong, but increasingly less fruitful, attempts at converting the earth's masses of people to Mormon belief.

Christianity started out, in Roman times, ahead of the Mormons, and will undoubtedly strongly stay ahead of the Mormons for the duration (however long that may turn out to be ;) ).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2017 06:53PM by Tevai.

even though Christianity has been interpreted as such. That's the key.

Mormon Church President Joseph Smith's Official LDS Endorsement of Southern Slavery

Not only does the Mormon Church have an doctrinally racist history, that history includes official Mormon Church endorsement of slavery, using its defense of that endorsement the racism embedded in Bible scripture.

To be sure, the Mormon Church's inventor, Joseph Smith, defended slavery against the opposition of abolitionists, declaring it to be a true principle which found support in the Bible & in the teachings of Jesus.

Smith, in fact, said that slavery was a divinely-decreed “curse” imposed on Blacks by the command of God & warned against attempts to interfere with its practice.

--In the LDS church publication, the “Messenger and Advocate" (see vol. 2, pp. 289-301, April 1836), Smith asserted that slavery as practiced by the Southern states was ordained by God & in keeping with the “gospel of Christ”:

“After having expressed myself so freely upon this subject, I do not doubt but those who have been forward in raising their voice against the South will cry out against me as being uncharitable, unfeeling & unkind--wholly unacquainted with the gospel of Christ.


"'It is my privilege, then, to name certain passages from the Bible & examine the teachings of the ancients upon this matter, as the fact is incontrovertible that the first mention we have of slavery is found in the holy Bible, pronounced by a man who was perfect in his generation & walked with God. And so far from that prediction's being averse from the mind of God, it remains as a lasting monument of the decree of Jehovah, to the shame & confusion of all who have cried out against the South in consequence of their holding the sons of Ham in servitude!

“'And he said cursed be Canaan: a servant of servants shall he be unto this brethren. And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; & Canaan shall be his servant.--God shall enlarge Japheth & he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; & Canaan shall be his servant.' (Gen. 8: 25-27)

“Trace the history of the world from this notable event down to this day & you will find the fulfillment of this singular prophecy. What could have been the design of the Almighty in this wonderful occurrence is not for me to say, but I can say that the curse is not yet taken off the sons of Canaan, neither will be until it is affected by a great power as caused it to come; & the people who interfere the least will come under the least condemnations before him & those who are determined to purse a course which shows an opposition & a feverish restlessness against the designs of the Lord will learn, when perhaps it is too late for their own good, that God can do his work without the aid of those who are not dictated by his counsel."


--Smith then proceeded to counter claims that the Bible was not talking about Ham-lineaged, cursed Black slaves brought under control by the command of God to be used as forced labor:

"Some may urge that the names, 'man-servant' and 'maid servant' only mean hired persons who were at liberty to leave their masters or employers at ant time. But we can easily settle this point by turning the history of Abraham's descendants, when governed by a law given from the mouth of the Lord himself.

"I know that when an Israelite had been brought into servitude in consequence of debt, or otherwise, at the seventh year he went from the task of this former master or employuer; but to no other people or nation was this granted in the law of Israel. And if, after a man had served six years, he did not wish to be free, then the master was to bring him unto the judges, bore his ear with an awl and that man was 'to serve him forever.'

"The conclusion I draw from this is that this people were led and governed by revelation & if such a law was wrong God only is to be blamed & abolitonists are not responsible."


--After quoting from Ephesians 6:5-9 and 1 Timothy 6:1-5 (which admonishes that "servants be obedient to them that are your masters" and that they "are under the yoke [of] masters worthy of all honor"), LDS church president Joseph Smith concluded that "[t]he scripture stands for itself & I believe that these men were better qualified to teach the will of God than all the abolitionists in the world." (cited in Lester E. Bush, Jr., complilation of notes on history of Blacks in the Mormon Church, pp. 18-19, copy in my possession)


--In the same treatise, Joseph Smith warned that if Blacks were freed from slavery and the South was militarily defeated, Blacks might overrun the country and degrade societal morals:

“ . . . I am aware that many who profess to preach the gospel complain against their brethren of the same faith who reside in the South & are ready to withdraw the hand of fellowship because they will not renounce the principle of slavery & raise their voice against every thing of the kind.

“This must be a tender point & one which should call forth the candid reflection of all men & especially before they advance in an opposition calculated to lay waste the fall States of the South & set loose upon the world a community of people who might peradventure overrun our country & violate the most sacred principles of human society, chastity & virtue”


--Smith’s advocated that no one had the right to tell others not to engage in the business of human trafficking:

“I do not believe that the people of the North have any more right to say that the South shall not hold slaves, than the South have to say the North shall.”

--Smith stated that slave owners should retain final say over the condition & future of their human property & that slaves, should unconditionally & meekly obey their masters:

“. . . [W]e have no right to interfere with slaves contrary to the mind & will of their masters. In fact, it would be much better & more prudent not to preach at all to slaves, until after their masters are converted: & then teach the master to use them with kindness, remembering that they are accountable to God & that servants are bound to serve their master with singleness of heart, without murmuring.”

--Smith taught that slavery was condoned by scripture & that Mormons had no right to foment resistance to Southern slavery:

“I do most sincerely hope that no one who is authorized from this church to preach the gospel will so far depart from the scripture as to be found stirring up strife & sedition against our brethren of the South.”


--Smith said that freeing the slaves would only cause trouble for people not accustomed to seeing Blacks (the latter whom Smith labeled as inherently lazy, professionally unemployable & childish):

“. . . [W]hat benefit will it ever be to the slave for persons to run over the free states & excite indignation against their masters in the minds of thousands & tens of thousands who understand nothing relative to their circumstances or conditions? I mean particularly those who have never traveled in the South & scarcely seen a negro in all their life.

“How any community can ever be excited with the chatter of such persons-boys & others who are too indolent to obtain their living by honest industry & are incapable of pursuing any occupation of a professional nature, is unaccountable to me.”

(Joseph Smith, letter to Oliver Cowdery, published in “Latter-Day Saints Messenger & Advocate,” vol. 2. no. 7, Kirtland, Ohio, April 1836, pp. 289, 291)

********


When it comes to the assertion that Mormonism will never compete with Christianity because of Moism's implicit racism, that dog won't hunt.

Christian scripture is implicitly racist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2017 06:21PM by steve benson.

As is its art work. I asked Google images to show me "paintings of Jesus Christ" https://www.google.com/search?q=paintings+of+jesus+christ&rlz=1CAACAO_enUS686US688&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZ2af747TWAhWJjlQKHWvyBvYQ_AUICigB&biw=1161&bih=616 and there are less than a handful in which you can say, "He isn't White."

Maybe he was White, but there is ample basis for thinking he would have had black hair and brown skin, and not looked European. Christianity 'cleaned up His act' just like mormonism has changed JS into a casting director's wet dream of a hero-type.

Devout Christians of the past always worshiped a White ghawd, and felt either pity or disdain for non-Whites. Pretty much no matter who you are "The Brotherhood of Man" consists of people who look like you do.

And I bet an argument could be made the mormons are close to cutting edge now when it comes to intermarriage of skin tones.

Yes, the corner that mormonism painted itself into was even worse than "answering the question they *should* have asked"-- mormonism answered questions that *no one* asked...

MORmONISM can and does compete with Christianity, with outlandish superficial Christian/biblical style superlatives, even as MORmONISM is actually quite a mockery of traditional Christianity.

The required condition to make it possible for MORmONISM to compete with Christianity and to prevail is dealing with a feeble minded very needy personality that is very desperate for some (quick and dirty, cheap and flashy) personal validation. SUch personalities quickly buy into the MORmON hoopla of current living MORmON prophets and MORmON apostles and MORmON temples and additional latter day MORmON scriptures. AS IF those things have any real positive significance, when those thing are really just indicators of outlandish idiocy. The process is quite functional just as long as the desperate subject person (victim) remains unwilling and /or unable to actually think things through. That is a big reason that I refer to them as faithFOOL MORmONS.