I've read a few stories of dying TBM's saying they saw their relatives just before they passed away, but NEVER heard of a Joseph Smith sighting or a description of Our Lord and Saviour wearing garments or an 'Elder Jesus Christ' missionary name tag. Already talked about a few years ago on RfM, but throwing it there again only because it crossed my mind while driving home.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,165494,165494

I'm still lackadaisically sorta working on having some more near-life experiences.

But I'm going to follow this thread in hopes of witnessing some "my NDE can beat up your NDE!" exchanges.

At least one...

http://www.ldsliving.com/Brigham-Young-s-Near-Death-Experience-and-What-It-Taught-Him-About-the-Spirit-World/s/81924

Here's another -- where the person claimed to meet old Horny Joe himself:

http://mormonism-unveiled.blogspot.com/2010/06/lds-author-kim-rives-talks-about-her.html

Apparently she's quite popular on the mormon "fireside" circuit. Not surprising.

To those who claim NDEs are actual "visits" somewhere -- does her reported "experience" mean the mormon church is true?

It is clear the 2 above LDS NDEs do not fit the 'typical NDE' at all. Gee, I wonder why??

LDS people need to get up to speed on what 'typical NDEs' include.

My mom said a family member had an NDE and it included a garden, people teaching the gospel, etc. but the relatives who lived nearest him and were assisting the person had no clue of this 'story'. Therefore, I discount it totally now.

Most NDEs have a 'typical pattern' of what they see and experience. Obviously, the typical NDEs have 'nothing Mormon' about them or religion for that matter.

The only thing is the people 'believe' the 'spirits' (I believe these are spirit guides) they don't recognize 'must be' Jesus, God, Mohammad, etc. but most never say these 'potential God/prophets' ever identify themselves as such. Further, typical NDEs ever tell anyone to go join a 'religion', go to the temple, be baptized, etc. etc.!

spiritist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most NDEs have a 'typical pattern' of what they
> see and experience. Obviously, the typical NDEs
> have 'nothing Mormon' about them or religion for
> that matter.

They don't, actually.
Like the "mormon" ones above, the only "pattern" they exhibit relates to the culture/beliefs/life experiences of the person having them.

So somebody from the US, raised "mainstream protestant," and middle-class, who has one will see similarities to those other people who lived in that same environment had.

While people raised in India in Hinduism and extreme poverty will have almost no similarities to the above.

"We compared the various descriptions of NDEs from a phenomenological perspective. There were similarities between particular cultures, which differed from typical western European experiences. This article concludes that although there are common themes, there are also reported differences in NDEs."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18344255

Exactly, just like I said there are 'typical things/common things' and that is what we should concentrate on.

This article concludes that although there are 'common themes', there are also reported differences in NDEs.

It sounds like you didn't actually read it...?

I read about a child who had a NDE and saw Santa Claus. It's pretty clear that people see what they are programmed to see or otherwise what they want to see or what brings them peace. It's the brain chemistry folks. Nothin to do with Gawd or spirit guides.

I always figured that if I had an NDE, I'd meet Mamie Stover. (The book Mamie, not the movie Mamie.)

Betty Eadie is a Mormon who has written about NDEs. One of her books is titled Embraced by the Light, in which she gives an account of her own NDE.

I actually read her book as I was transitioning out of Mormonism. I was curious to see if her account was consistent with and/or specific to Mormonism. What she did was cleverly make the alleged NDE generic enough to fit in with many Christian religious traditions, but a few details about it could certainly be embraced by Mormons as subtle "proof" that "the Gospel is true!" Added: After all, broader appeal means more book sales.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Eadie#NDE_account



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2017 05:57PM by lurking in.

Yeah, I discounted the BY story as an example because, well, he just talked about how it sucked to be so near death, but that was it--his descriptions of the afterlife are his typical bat-shit crazy stuff, and of course, in typical 'LDS Living' fashion, the title sounds intriguing but doesn't live up to the content.

And speaking of bat-shit crazy, Kim Rives?

"Inside a classroom, she says, she met her deceased grandmother, who was teaching other ancestors about genealogy. She also met Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He, too, was teaching a lesson. Her twin sisters, who had died in infancy, were there, and she saw a vision of her premortal self learning to love music."

That definitely sounds like someone in a deep state of neurons firing at random and creating all kinds of dreams and visions at random. Seriously, why would anyone study geneology in heaven, when you just walk over to your g-g-g-grandmother and introduce yourself. If I told you the dreams I had lately and said they were visions of some kind of reality, you'd want to lock me up on a 72 hour hold...


P.S. If heaven includes classrooms with JS himself teaching a "lesson"--that's the LAST place I'd want to spend eternity!!

+ 1000

I think most of us [ex-mos] would be delighted to find JS after we die. Then we could beat the living shit out of him.

I wish more people in general, but especially Mormon family members would study 'NDEs' and find out the 'typical things' in NDEs which would challenge the need to be 'Mormons or anything else'.

However, Eadie refers to God as "he" instead of "He" and insists that all religions are necessary for each person. She claims that each religion is necessary for each person, because of their different levels of spiritual enlightenment.

This should have got her in trouble with LDS inc. but not sure they ever did anything about her claiming 'all religions' are 'necessary' for each person.

This 'teaching' should appear to many to be 'silly and stupid' why would teaching 'different doctrines or versions of God-truth' be of 'value' and lead anyone to 'enlightenment'.

There are many mormon "visions" of the spirit world and many "visits/visitations" of deceased relatives.

I don't recall too many NDE.

There does seem to be a common thread of calling out a loved ones name.

John Pontius's "Visions of Glory are chock full of such NDE stories.

This book reinforces every Mormon theological belief and snippet of folklore you can think of from the City of Enochonce being in the Gulf of Mexico to Mother in Heaven needing to be protected from her children. It is all there, all verified by the "Vision of Glory" brought on by an NDE. Oddly enough, I don't recall him talking about heavenly polygamy at all.

I am sure Pontius's other books are much the same, and then there is a website.

The books are all about the spiritual experiences of a "friend" of John, thus saving Pontius from the risk of getting ex'd for claiming to have spiritual experiences he wasn't authorized to have.

But when it comes to having a no-doubt-about-it LDS NDE, Pontius is your go-to guy.

Lois

The only one that I know of is from Heber Q. Hale (Boise SP) in 1920:

http://emp.byui.edu/davisr/121/Vision%20of%20H%20Hale.htm

also at

http://emp.byui.edu/ANDERSONKC/halesp.pdf

Oofta! Sounds boring as hell.

I have read/viewed (videos) of thousands of NDEs. Encountered several LDS NDEs, including the mentioned "Amy Call" and others.

My favorite is that of Jeff Olsen, a Utah Mormon, who "died" in a car accident at mile marker 80 on I-15.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRmTYHcBXsk&t=1243s
(If this URL is not allowed, merely do a YT search for "Jeff Olsen NDE".)

His LDS upbringing didn't match what he learned in his NDE. As a result, I don't believe he's still LDS.

If NDEs are halucinations, I say, the world need more of them.

Jeff Olsen mentions that he thinks he fell asleep at the wheel for a few seconds. If he had felt free to drink coffee or another caffeinated beverage before taking off, he might never have had the accident. Every non-Mormon I know partakes of caffeine before they take off, if they happen to feel tired and aren't sure about their alertness.

I died momentarily on the operating table. I saw absolutely nothing. But after they resuscitated me, I hallucinated like crazy. I thought the ICU room was my living room, and it was haunted by people in white who kept hurting me.

Lookup "Amy Call" on YouTube. She WAS LDS until she had her NDE. She was informed that what mattered is HOW you have lived and loved, NOT what you believed. She's left the Church. Hers is one of the better NDE's I've listened to or read.

"Beyond the Veil" books by Lee Nelson. They're all LDS-based NDE experiences. I have those books.

Good mention, GreyFort. We have them too, I've read them. Some are dreams and visions, but most are NDE's.

In the 60's Duane Crowther wrote a book called "Life Everlasting" that is full of LDS NDE's. I no longer believe any of them. Too slanted.

How about OBE's-- out of body experiences?

I have had OBE and NDE myself. I asked to meet Jesus during the NDE. It was when I was a believer. My hosts said that such
a thing was not possible. They offered no further explanation. I concluded that it was because Jesus was too busy. NOW, I really know why that was not possible, it was because Jesus Christ does not exist. The instant that some one starts claiming to have met Jesus on the other side or claims to have a message to relay for Jesus from the other side, then they are LYING.

LDS member Lance Richardson (now deceased) talked about his NDE's. He never mentioned meeting Jesus, so unlike some other big time MORmON phonies ( Julie Rowe).

Smirkorama, do you mind if I ask about your NDE? Were you in an accident? What was the NDE like?

I used to watch the program called I Survived, Beyond and Back. I really enjoyed it.

Good point on Jesus, and I totally agree based on my experiences.

I believe they understood you to mean the Jesus (savior, God, etc.) as there are many 'Jesus'' that have died possibly one that the 'myth' was actually based on.

I agree with Texmo, and a believer, and would also like you to share the basics of what you 'experienced'.

Additionally, there is a NDE site where people discuss their NDEs and they would like to have you post there also, but it is not really a very active board ---- they have 'Christian preachers' as monitors. They have not deleted any of my posts yet but 'spiritual experiences' I had are definitely against Jesus and religion which makes the site a bit 'challenging' to be friendly when the monitors basically support 'lies about Jesus and religion' as 'valuable' to some poor souls they take money from.

His heart stopped for about a minute on the OR table. He is a nevermo married to a rather rabid TBM (mother in law from hell - but thats for another thread).
Anyway, when he woke up in recovery he said " I died, didn't I?". He later told us about his experience. He was on a mountainside and saw two guys in the distance waving for him to join them. He then heard the voices of his family and said he saw them all sitting in the waiting room. The next thing he remembered was waking up in recovery.
He says that the experience made him unafraid of death. When asked if there was anything about "the church" he just smiles and says no.

I like that NDE story. Even if the NDE is just something the brain manufactures to keep the body calm in a time of intense bodily trauma, it's nice to know that we could have a happy, peaceful exit even if we're permanently snuffed out.

I should add that despite his NDE he has had no desire to join the LDS Church.