My TBM wife's testimony is very tied up in her pioneer ancestry. She has a hard time believing that her ancestors, many of whom knew Joseph Smith well, could have been duped...or worse, knowingly gone along with his con. Reading many of their stories, I believe that were good people. They believed in Joe's prophetic calling. Some suffered and died trying to follow him and Brigham. They were simply deceived. Is it so hard to believe that Joe was that good at conning people?

I was recently shocked to learn that a well respected member in the area here has been abusing his wife and living multiple lives (several long-term relationships) for decades. He seemed like the nicest guy you could meet. If you asked every ward member who the nicest person in the ward was, most would have named him. He just seemed like a genuinely nice guy that would do anything to help anyone. His wife finally asked for a divorce, spilled the beans, and not he's about to be excommunicated.

I also just barely learned that the last SP here is about to be excommunicated. He's another guy that just seemed like a genuine, caring person. The woman he's been having an affair with for years just came to his home and turned his world upside down. This was going on while he was SP...while he did my last recommend interview, while he was attending the temple, while he was meeting with area and general authorities, while he was holding "courts of love" for others that had done the same...

These two guys had almost everyone in their lives fooled...for far longer than Joseph Smith had his con running before getting himself killed. There are many stories out there of Mormon leaders, other religious leaders, and many others that have hid dirty secrets for years and years. Why is it so hard to believe that Joe was capable of the same?...especially with how clumbsy he was with his con...changing his stories/"revelations", breaking the law, chasing off some of his closest friends...

Yes, you can.
But the person has to allow you to get to know the "real" them. Otherwise, you never will.

There are a few people I really know, and who really know me. It's enough. And yes, my wife is one of them...

You don't happen to live in the Cedar City area, do you? I only ask because one of my uncles (by marriage) was an SP there having an affair, and the story above matches his...
Then again, there are lots of such stories in mormonism!

Not Cedar City. This is Salt Lake county.

This result speaks to how ubiquitous such goings-on are 'mongst the saints!!

Like hie said, his wife really knows him.

Shocking enough, my ex probably knows me the best, better than my boyfriend.

But the truth is, nobody knows me completely.

But people you just see at church or know as leaders, even friends, I think it is almost impossible. I've also known many leaders who were living double lives and finally got caught and then some never get caught. Some have learned really well how to live a double life.

My ex did a good job of living a double life. Since we no longer are a "couple," the relationship is much better, but because of all we went through over the gay issue and we lived the double life together as only we knew, we probably know way too much about each other.

cl2 Wrote:
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> But people you just see at church or know as
> leaders, even friends, I think it is almost
> impossible.

Especially in mormonism, where "put on a happy face no matter what" is the rule. Everybody's hiding *something.* Most are hiding a lot. Those folks you can't know...

It's a vicious routine: ghawd will bless you abundantly if you are worthy, so if you demonstrate a condition that reeks of 'not being blessed' then as night follows day, it is proper to judge you as being unworthy. Unless you're popular in the ward, then they'll say you're being tested.

I wonder how many bishops, as they're listening to someone describe a negative situation, think to themselves, "I wonder what sin he/she is committing!?" followed by, "Well, if ghawd is withholding blessings, he probably doesn't want me to ruin the lesson!"

There's the rub.

I make sure no one really knows me. Gypsy Rose Lee knew what she was doing.

I'd say that someone on this board and I are getting close, but BYU Boner wants it kept a secret.

Which makes no sense! If Saucie doesn't care, why should he?

I'm racking my brain here, trying to figure it out!! Damn it, I'm going to need more clues!

elderolddog Wrote:
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> I'm racking my brain here, trying to figure it
> out!! Damn it, I'm going to need more clues!


Awww Its the Boner, just as I suspected. I should have known, and here I though It was ME and THE BONER. DAmn !!!!!!!!

You can only know a person as well as they allow you to.

The mentally healthiest person will be his or her authentic

self to everyone, but on the other hand the more sick and

twisted a person is, the more they hide their true selves and

you will never really know them .

knew me as well as anyone ever will.

We met when we were 13, clicked, and realized that we could trust each other. We used to joke, in our later years, that we HAD to remain best friends, because we knew so much dirt on each other that we could blackmail each other into eternity.

We knew each other's parents (and their weird little quirks,) and we were aware of many of the skeletons in each other's family closets. And we knew that we could trust each other with this stuff.

Closeness like that doesn't come along every day. It is a treasure.

"Closeness like that doesn't come along every day. It is a treasure."

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So True! But it can end when you leave the cult.

One of my ancestors was duped by Joseph telling him very specific things about him that he thought no one else knew.

I suspect my ancestor's wife fed the info, can't prove it.

Others came from England, I used to think it was for the church, now I suspect it was for free land and because of poverty in Europe.