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Posted by: left4good ( )
Date: September 11, 2017 03:23PM

They are mighty proud.

http://www.deseretnews.com/user/comments/865688496/Philippines-reaches-major-Mormon-milestone-100-stakes.html

According to Cumorah (dot) com, they are now 0.73% of the Philippine population.

They are bragging about reaching 100 stakes. And yet 99.27% of the population isn't numbered among them.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 11, 2017 03:42PM

Ha!!

Here is the comment, with my slight alterations, to make it quite pertinent, especially considering the date:


Sept. 11, 1857
How will the growth of the Church in this country help bring about social justice?

Right now Utah is led by a strong man dictator who has no problem with extra-judicial killings in the streets.



If the commentator doesn't like President Duterte, he can't be liking BY, right?

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: September 11, 2017 05:32PM

Every time I bust my buttons, I pop out if my Levi's.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 11, 2017 07:59PM

pop or poop?

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: September 11, 2017 08:51PM

yeah lets get to the bottom of this.

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Posted by: BYU Boner ( )
Date: September 11, 2017 10:33PM

Nasty, nasty, nasty! (I love it!).

Popped, that was Boners do. Poop is what Dawgs do...Dawgs do!! HaHaHa!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2017 10:34PM by BYU Boner.

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Posted by: badassadam ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 12:52AM

I knew that was your comment before i looked at your screen name old dog.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: September 11, 2017 11:04PM

They will face an uncertain future there. I wouldn't recommend setting up a western religious cult there, but that's just me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2017 11:05PM by donbagley.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 12:32AM

I think they've already got a western religious cult. It's called roman catholicism.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 04:26PM

Good one, Dave.

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 03:49AM

I served my mission in the Philippines from 86-88. During my time there I personally baptized 63 people. The church grew exponentially in that country around that time frame.

To me many of the Filipinos were poor and desperate. The were willing to try anything to help them feed their families and keep their children alive. We do not know what it really means to live in extreme poverty; not like many of the Filipinos I met.

Since the majority of the Filipinos are Catholic, introducing them to Mormonism was an easy sell. Same God, same ideas, just a modern prophet and some additional scriptures to read. Not a big change. The hope for them was that this new religion would help them with their lives. I'm sure that it did help for a short time but in the end the church is a drain and not a support.

During the month of Dec 1987 the Philippine Manila Mission baptized over 500 individuals for the month. It was the highest baptizing mission in the world. I can't imagine that more than a few dozen of those members would still call themselves Mormon. The inactivity rates for the branches and wards I served in were uncommonly high, even in the 80s. I can't imagine what it is like now.

I feel guilty about my time there. I feel guilty about pressuring those people into joining our cult. I have a couple of them who friended me on facebook and I told them both that I'm out and I apologized for leading them into the church. Both are still active and think that they are helping my by trying to lead me back into the church. I don't know what to do about them.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 09:36AM

praydude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't imagine that more than a few
> dozen of those members would still call
> themselves Mormon. The inactivity rates for the
> branches and wards I served in were uncommonly
> high, even in the 80s. I can't imagine what it is
> like now.

My wife is Filipina, and I've spent a lot of time there (we go back every other year, typically, and we've been married for 25 years).

I can't tell you how many people I met who told me they'd flirted with mormonism (having been baptized), but no longer wanted anything to do with it. Many of them thought joining an American church would make it easier to emigrate to the US (it doesn't). Some were infatuated with the pogi white and delightsome American missionaries -- that went away when they were transferred or went home. Some kinda sorta actually believed -- until they found out about the history of polygamy and the wacko temple rituals and the magic underwear, then they went running back to seemingly sane Catholicism.

In the many months I've spent there, I've met exactly 2 active mormon Filipinos. And many dozens of completely inactive former short-time mormons. Based only on my personal experience, the inactivity rate would have to be around 80%. At least.

:)

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Posted by: USN77 ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 12:58PM

Ificouldhietokolob, having served a mission in the Philippines at the same time as Pray Dude, and feeling similar regrets about the people I baptized, your experiences about Filipino LDS inactivity rates are comforting. I can add that my Filipino brother-in-law was inactive when he was called as a bishop, and went inactive again when he was released.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 03:28PM

That's actually kind of funny -- and a little sad.
Inactive.
Serves as bishop, goes "active."
Goes inactive as soon as he's release.

What -- he couldn't say "no?"

:(

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 03:51PM

I was in the Philippines Manila Mission and later the Cebu East mission. Where did you serve your mission?

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Posted by: USN77 ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 06:55PM

Praydude, I first served in the Micronesia Guam Mission, was transferred to the Cebu Mission, and that was changed to the Bacolod Mission not long before I left. From your other posts I had been wondering in which mission(s) you served. Sounds like we were neighbors.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 07:33PM

Either of you two ever get down to the Davao region? You know, Duterte's home base? ;-)

My wife's from near there (Tagum). :)

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Posted by: USN77 ( )
Date: September 13, 2017 02:19PM

No, I never made it to Davao, nor any part of Mindanao. I did have a companion from General Santos City who is now a member of the 8th Quorum of the 70, and his dad is president of the Manila Temple. I'm sure being successful in business and paying lots of tithing had nothing to do with either calling. /s

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: September 13, 2017 03:32PM

USN77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sure being successful in business and
> paying lots of tithing had nothing to do with
> either calling.


Of course not. <snicker>

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: September 14, 2017 12:37PM

Was your mission president Elder Rollins? He was the Vietnam fighter pilot who was captured by the Viet Cong. He was in a prison for a couple of years before he was released. He was also a very strict dude. I remember him from when I was in So Cal and he was the bishop of the ward next door.

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Posted by: USN77 ( )
Date: September 14, 2017 01:09PM

Yes, Pres. Rollins was my president in Micronesia. Interesting that you knew him outside of the mission. He related a few stories about being a prisoner of war. I respect anyone who went through that. One thing about Rollins that struck me about Rollins: He once talked about how he used to imagine working on his car to distract himself when he was a POW. That was what kept him from despair, not his faith. He even said something along the lines of, "I never lost my belief in God. But I did get to a point where it didn't matter to me."

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: September 14, 2017 01:30PM

When I was in the Manila mission back in 86 we had a few missionaries from the Micronesia Guam mission who came into our mission. They related horrible stories about Pres Rollins. Apparently he was a real taskmaster and yelled at everyone in the mission office. He would say something like "Elder, are you aware that the D&C says we need to have a clean house...? Then WHY Aren't you FOLLOWING IT?!! He would make the AP's go around to the local missionaries at night after curfew to make sure everyone's lights were out and report violators back to him, that sort of thing. Those missionaries we got were very happy to be away from President Rollins and in the new mission with Pres Jackson.

Those missionaries and I really got along because they knew that things could be worse. They also taught me a little Trukese. I'm feeling pwapwa.

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Posted by: USN77 ( )
Date: September 15, 2017 12:07PM

Pres. Rollins was strict, and maybe he wasn't a very good guy, but I was totally into the church at the time and admired him. He did criticize me a bit harshly once or twice in zone conferences (not by name, but it was pretty clear who he meant since he quoted from my weekly report). In those days, I felt a little ashamed because we had no converts (in Micronesia) and here the church was spending money to keep us there. I know -- messed up. Lots of people resented Pres. Rollins, with good reason, but I like nearly everybody I meet, including him.

There were 10 of us transferred to the Philippines. I remember one of the elders who served on Truk had said he was only on a mission because he wanted to be a returned missionary. I kind of admired that sort of frankness, since I think that was a large part of the motivation for all of us.

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: September 16, 2017 04:34AM

You must have been one of those missionaries that came in from Guam. I think the year was around 1987. We both spent some time at the Mission home in Cebu, the old one up in Beverly Hills.

I used to look back at my mission and think it was a total waste...and frankly it was BUT I did learn a new language and also learned about people who lived in a culture and a country very different from my own. (i'm from North County San Diego).

I also find it interesting that we both were in the military. I retired after doing my 20 years in the USAF.

I married as soon as I came back from my mission to the first LDS woman who gave me the time-of-day. That proved to be a big mistake. I sometimes wonder if I had married a Filipina if I would still be LDS. Like most American Missionaries I had many Filipinas writing me letting me know they were interested. I wonder if a traditional Filipina wife would have been grounded enough to make it seem like mormonism works. My nightmare wife showed me that you can't pray and fast the dysfunction away. (She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder).

My second (and current) wife is nevmo and she has shown me what unconditional love is. I'm very happy in my life now and I have been exmo long enough to work through the anger and pain. Some of that is still there but I am better with it. I wish the missionaries would visit sometime so I can show them some kindness and help them to see things from my perspective.

I have no friends from my LDS past. Like I say nothing says "its a cult like a good shunning". If you are in the north SF bay area please look me up. You can friend me on facebook. I'm Andrew Pray.

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: September 14, 2017 01:23PM

Well, it says they have 631,885 members and 1,100 congregations. Average of 11 wards per stake. So even if it were evened out, that would be 575 members per unit. But there are obviously many very small wards and branches. So I'd imagine that a ward with 575 members would be very very lucky to have 50 active. It's probably more like a couple thousand members of record in a ward that has 50 active.

But let's pretend we're active robotic mormons and not bring up that they have a very small activity rate and that less than a percent of the country's population are even members of record. Just humor them and their creative record keeping. Instead let's go "WOW! 100 Stakes! That's incredible! The work is rolling forth and covering the globe. Isn't it marvelous, isn't it wunerful!"

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Posted by: badassadam ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 01:28PM

Its definitely the ultimate drain on the soul. Sadly there is no quick fix to the damage caused to you except leaving and hope your mind heals quickly.

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Posted by: Breeze ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 10:42AM

Maybe I'm being simple-minded, but doesn't the Mormon growth expand alongside the population growth?

Mormon's Number One source of new members is newborn BIC babies.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 01:09PM

Yes, the actual number of members will grow, but very often not enough to keep up in terms of percentage of the population.

I believe this happening in America; there are more mormons every year but the percentage of the population that is mormon declines.

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Posted by: rt ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 01:12PM

Breeze Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doesn't the Mormon growth expand alongside the population growth?

Actually, Mormonism grows faster than world population growth, see the fourth chart on this page (haven't gotten around to updating it with 2016 data yet, but still):

http://www.mormonism101.com/2015/10/growth.html

ETA: don't know the specifics for the Philippines though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2017 01:13PM by rt.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: September 13, 2017 07:35PM

rt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, Mormonism grows faster than world
> population growth, see the fourth chart on this
> page (haven't gotten around to updating it with
> 2016 data yet, but still):
>
> http://www.mormonism101.com/2015/10/growth.html

Yeah, but it's declining steadily, and if the trend continues it will grow slower than world population growth in about 12 years.
It's already below US population growth.

They're losing. And I'm quite pleased :)

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Posted by: pogie ( )
Date: September 12, 2017 11:25AM

a few examples we had a well off s. president up north he inflated the number so each unit could have there own chapel. during an audit they found out the numbers where all a lie he was ex'ed but came back to the church. Another example another leader for the CES program stole church funds and started his own business one was a printing business where he got the contract to print a lot of the church supplies. So many more one last one in my first area a new member was made the finical clerk. They gave him the tithing money to deposit. He took his family out to dinner with that money said he didn't know what to do with it and thought the church was paying him for his calling. I love the Philippines my wife is from there we go back 3 or 4 times a year and have a house there. I can tell you when Oaks was in power over there he closed wards made wards branches combined a lot of branches last time when we went to church in the Philippines this much of been 5 or 6 years ago only 30 people where at church most of that was from in-laws and one other family.

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Posted by: brigidbarnes ( )
Date: September 13, 2017 04:25PM

Why don't churches just feed people? And provide medical care? They can always find a shack to meet in.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: September 13, 2017 11:30PM

(Don't Forget)... For a certain amount of time, the 'saints'in Germany went along with one A. Hitler so as 'not to make waves'.

Yes, "those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

- G. Santayana



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2017 11:33PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: namarod ( )
Date: September 14, 2017 10:20AM

According to the Cumorah Project website, the activity rate in the Philippines is 20%. Although the information is from 2010. I'm sure the inactivity rate is even lower now because so many more Filipinos have access to the Internet.

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Posted by: hello ( )
Date: September 14, 2017 05:27PM

Hmmm, yeah, I haven't been to the Philippines, but I would just guess that the activity rate is lower than that claim, perhaps by half.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: September 14, 2017 08:44PM

namarod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to the Cumorah Project website, the
> activity rate in the Philippines is 20%. Although
> the information is from 2010. I'm sure the
> inactivity rate is even lower now because so many
> more Filipinos have access to the Internet.

Hey, how about that, their estimate jives with my personal "80% inactive" estimate above! :)

It probably depends on how you define "inactive." Of the ones I knew, a very few would still go to church now and then, just not every week. I considered them "active" if they still believed, or if they went now and then for "social" reasons.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: September 14, 2017 09:21PM

A clerk told me that The Corp. considers members active if they attend once a month; no word on how that applies other than internal stats...

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