Especially in a mormon community. Could that child have done anything? I know its not wise to dwell in the past but i was completely brainwashed into thinking there was no help for someone in my position going against adult mormons in a completely mormon dominated community. So what could i have done besides run away for a few days?

I did not grow up in a Mormon community, but I was an abused child, and I also sought help--and discovered that there were no places or people or community officials that I could contact.

As things got worse (at that point I was wearing long sleeves constantly, so that the bruises on my arms would not show), I finally went to my step-aunt (who seemed to me, at that time in my life, to be the nicest of my relatives who could actually DO something) and told her what was going on.

She listened to everything I had to say, asked me some questions to clarify certain things, saw the bruises that were on my arms, and then she did nothing. (I never saw any evidence that she had ever told anyone anything, either, because everything within my family went on as if nothing at all had happened.)

Although local government offices are SUPPOSED to be better about this now, I am skeptical that an abused child could call them, or go in to their offices, and self-report that they (or their siblings) are being abused, and be taken seriously. This probably varies considerably according to the local area, and I am sure that (in 2017) there are SOME places, SOMEWHERE in the United States, where an abused child can self-report and be taken seriously, but I have never heard of this (in news accounts, magazine articles, etc.), so the part of me that is still that abused child doesn't really believe it.

Unfortunately for all children, this isn't a Mormon problem--it is a national problem, and it includes the abused children of all religious groups, and all socio-economic levels. (There is an enormous amount of abuse that happens at the highest income levels, and it is virtually always both ignored and covered up, by all of the adults around the child, as well as their schools and their other, supposedly-support, structures. Musn't get Mommy and Daddy mad at them, or Mommy and Daddy and the grandparents won't continue to fund hefty tuition payments, or build new gymnasiums and libraries, for the educational institutions that are SUPPOSED to be protecting their students.)

I am sorry, bassassadam. This is an AMERICAN problem (with Mormonism comprising only a tiny part of it), and we Americans are failing virtually every abused child equally in this area.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2017 03:03PM by Tevai.

Thats kind of what i figured cause even though you told your aunt still nothing would change and thats exactly how i felt if i were to tell anyone so i just tolerated everything growing up just keeping it all bottled up inside for decades until i had to get help or i was going to let what happened kill me.

badassadam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thats kind of what i figured cause even though you
> told your aunt still nothing would change and
> thats exactly how i felt if i were to tell anyone
> so i just tolerated everything growing up just
> keeping it all bottled up inside for decades until
> i had to get help or i was going to let what
> happened kill me.

Yes, I understand.

What you need to do now is (evidently) exactly what you are doing: getting help, and working it through.

It takes huge amounts of emotional pain (you can only work through so much in a given time period), and courage, and plain bull-headedness, but the alternative (burying it), although less painful, is far worse and far more painful over the long run.

In a way, abused kids are like refugees from war zones. They have seen and experienced and (often because they were ordered to) done harmful, and possibly horrific, things--and now they have to go on with their lives as if, to the outer world, none of that ever happened.

Except it DID, and they REMEMBER.

Probably more important: their bodies REMEMBER--so, even if they try to stuff it all down, it NEVER works.

I am glad you are getting help, and I understand, and I am very, very sorry that this happened to you, and I hope that the way to the other side of the bridge becomes smoother as you stick with whatever will help you best.

(P.S. Be aware that things which are helpful at one stage in your recovery can be hindering, or may become harmful, at FURTHER-ON stages in your recovery. You may do whatever you are doing now for "awhile" (until you realize that it is no longer actually helping you), and then change to another way of healing at a future time. The experience of outgrowing whatever-it-is that you have been using for healing at one period of time, and being ready to take the next step upwards with another healing method, is often a part of most every person's healing process. Be aware that this is a "usual" thing, so if and when it happens, you will be mentally and emotionally prepared to take the next logical step.)

You are very wise and i think i am headed in the direction of help that i should be going re-altering the course as i go taking one thing at a time. I am exactly like a soldier that just got out of a war zone i couldnt have said it any better its a hard and long bridge but i have to walk it to save my life and live a normal life somehow.

Your step aunt was probably helpless to help you. If she would have said anything, it could have turned her life (and childrens?) into a living hell. She probably felt horrible about it, but had to weigh the outcome.

Myself, I suffered a lot at the hands of my parents. I knew my grandfather(nevermo) was a child molester and that his wife and two other children did all they could to keep the lid on that. The other side of my family had so many kids of their own, and they weren't any better than my parents. Where would I have gone? My parents had been ok'd by Childrens services to have foster kids. They had a kid from the Indian placement program. They were viewed as wonderful parents. People in the ward would come up to me and tell me how lucky I was to have the parents I did. I didn't have a prayer. I was totally alone. I ran away from home several times as a teenager. Looking back, it was usually when my father went on one of his rampages and was beating the shit out of one of my siblings. I had a 22 year old BF when I was 16. He had a place of his own, and my parents didn't know he existed. I took refuge there as often as I could.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2017 10:20PM by janis.

Yep you didnt have a prayer just like me.

The running away now and then was all I could do. No one was on my side. My own father and grandfather had me put away for six months when I was fifteen. Living in the bubble of Mormonism is hell for non believers.

Total hell.

they had the right to beat the living daylights out of us to make us "behave," and even if we DID report this to someone, back then, the general belief was that parents had the right to do what they thought was correct.

There was no point in trying to report to "the police," or "the school nurse," or "the principal," because they would never believe a kid over an adult who laughs it off and denies everything. And when they left, you were still stuck with the abuser and would get more of the same.

I remember the day when I grabbed an old yardstick, which had been varnished and re-varnished until it was as hard as a 2x4. I had been beaten from waist to ankles many times with that old thing. One day, when I was in high school, my mother and I were arguing fiercely about something, and she grabbed the hated yardstick. On impulse, I wrestled it away from her, and snapped it across my knee. I handed her the pieces, and snarled, "Don't you EVER raise your hand to me again!" She didn't.

Not long after that, I went to an "away" university, and it was HEAVEN, spending days and weeks with only a "long-distance" phone call between me and my mother. (My father, basically the voice of peace and sanity in our family, had died of a hereditary illness when I was 15.)

I understood at a deeply visceral level that my mother didn't "love" me - at least, not in the Hallmark, happy-at-home sort of way that mothers were "supposed" to. I can remember making a Mother's Day card in second grade. I drew a picture of my mother, with her mouth drawn back in a fierce rictus of anger. I drew a line across it that could have represented teeth.

"Oh, how nice!" my teacher commented. "Is she smiling?"

"No," I said, calmly. "It's a zipper on her mouth, so she can't say any more mean things to me." The teacher promptly launched on a tirade about what a terrible girl I was, and she tore up my drawing. I tried to grab it back, and tell her that it was MY drawing, and she was not allowed to tear it up. She said she was the teacher and could do whatever she saw fit.

As I grew older, I began using references in schoolbooks to prove that Mother was wrong in something she said. She hated that.

I never realized how much she hated it until our final visit, when she was dying. She said something that was totally wrong. Without thinking, I said, "No, that wasn't how it happened. Don't you remember? So-and-So said. . . ." Her mouth twisted, her eyes narrowed, and she said, "You always DID have all the answers."

Even now, about a quarter-century after her passing, that memory still hurts. She resented me for daring to argue with her, and what was worse, having the temerity to back up my arguments with PROOF.

I have tried very, very hard, NOT to treat my own children the way I was treated. And I have very warm relationships with them, and with my grandchildren.

Oh my dad hated when i dared to challenge him i completely understand, he still thinks hes the all knowing king of the universe but still will never go through what i have he doesnt have a clue what he did to me psychologically same with the church.

Go to a trusted school teacher, and/or the school nurse?

Go to the police---AND FILE AN OFFICIAL REPORT. (Be sure and get a copy of this report--required by law--although you are likely to have to pay for the copy (a minimal fee, $1-2 dollars).

Also, search on line for groups that work to protect children from abusive situations.

This post is a terrible reminder that not all people are treaed equal under the law.

I dont think there was the internet back then and all my teachers and police all seemed to be in the mormon club with my family.

I've been there, adam. It was lonely.

Yea it was but i atleast found some athiest friends to hang out with to get away from it all.

If a child tells a mandated reporter he or she is being abused, the mandated reporter obviously has to report it. I cannot speak for areas other than those in which I've lived as an adult, but my experience has been that any report made by a mandated reporter based on a child's allegations has been taken seriously when physical evidence backs up the allegations if the child sticks to his or her story when questioned by the authorities. Without any physical evidence, it's up in the air and depends on how credible the child seems to be to the CPS worker. Children sometimes recant when the CPS workers show up. Sometimes the original allegations hold in the presence of physical evidence even when a child recants his or her original allegations.

The system is far from perfect, but it's better than it used to be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2017 09:39PM by scmd.

So could the child have been removed from the home if the allegations were true?

Absolutely. I've seen it happen the same day, at least on a temporary basis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2017 07:58PM by summer.

Well shit i wish i knew that back in the day and was smart enough to figure it out but it would have taken a ton of courage but it would have been easier than the road i ended up choosing for sure.

That's a big problem. The abused kids don't have a clue what the system is.

In the 60's and 70's I wouldn't have had a chance in hell. Today, maybe.

When you're a child and don't know the system, rule, who is safe, who isn't, and the politics of money and charisma, you'll be lucky to end up in a place that's good for you.

When I was 15 I told my parents that I was going to do everything I could to get the hell out of their house, and that included going to the state and going into foster care. It freaked them out. They totally quit beating me and stalking me 24/7. They left me alone about who my friends were. Most of my friends were TBM kids. Some were in the same or worse situation than me. Things got a lot better for about two years.

For whatever reason, they just missed having the scapegoat to slap around. The last time my father beat me, I was 17. I left home for good about 3 months later. I landed a job in at the local Hospital working in the kitchen. It paid my rent and I lived only two blocks away, so didn't need a car. I rode my 10 speed everywhere.

When I was 18 I married a RM. I think it was mostly to prove to my parents that I could. He was an RM from a very wealthy family. They were related to mormon royalty. They were all assholes.

Being me, and sick to death of living with abusers, I divorced the RM about 21 months later. I was instantly shunned by family in everyone in the ward. Never mind I divorced him for doing drugs and having sex with teenagers. None of that seemed to matter to the mormons. What the hell????



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2017 11:02PM by janis.

My counselor keeps telling me that i was the scapegoat and i think its true but why me and why do they need a scapegoat? Is it because they are in serious shit? Or they feel extremely guilty? Why wasnt my younger sister used as the scapegoat? I want to know how this scapegoat thing works and why they do it.

Right. Mandated reporters (teachers, other school personnel, physicians, etc.) MUST make the call to CPS the same day that a child makes a complaint of abuse, or risk losing their jobs or certifications. If I were a kid I would recommend going to the school social worker, counselor, or psychologist. Mandated reporters are also supposed to make the call if they even remotely suspect abuse, but it can be a tough call. If I see a kid with a bruise I talk to the kid about it, and also talk to their siblings.

You would have been talking to me every day for years. Nobody else seemed to notice my legs were constantly black and blue. This was back when girls had to wear dresses and anklets. I loved it when the fashion became knee hi stockings. Still didn't cover all the belt marks, but it was a bit better.

In a Mormon community, not sure there is much one can do - because the local authorities tend to favor the parents, not the children - when they're all LDS.

Today with mandatory reporting if a child is suspected of being abused it is the law that their doctors, teachers, clergy, etc, report their abusers to Child Protective Services. Still, many abused/neglected kids slip between the cracks.

Nor is there enough support or foster homes to alleviate the problem. Some foster homes are worse by far than the homes the abused children leave behind.

My observation with known Mormon abusers is that they were/are sheltered by their local church officials, rather than being reported.

I figured not much could be done in a mormon community the odds were way against me and i could feel it.

You were right.

So i couldnt have done much besides say screw it like i did god damn. And people wonder why i dont pray or do anything cause i was put in a screwed up no win situation surrounded by cult members my whole life what loving god would do that to a boy. Exactly.

Badass, children generally can't process what's going on in their lives. Adults can see the pain and abuse. Unfortunately, most children either think THEY are the problem or that their home lives are "normal."

I have seen cases of child abuse where authorities have removed children from the home. The children generally suffer tremendously--such is the trust and love most children feel for their parents, no matter how awful it is for them. It's so tragic to see the trust and innocence.

You are a survivor. Please re-read carefully the words of Tevai. There's great wisdom here.

I'm also a survivor of physical and psychological abuse from a bipolar alcoholic mother. We don't have to hurt. We can take charge of our lives and heal.

Hugs, peace, and healing Adam. You are truly a remarkable individual.

I did think my upbringing was normal and everyone else had a similar one but i was way off. I dont want to live like a survivor anymore boner i dont to be afraid of certain people and certain things still and play the hiding and avoiding game, its getting old and im getting to old to live this way still.

I retaliated by getting a scholarship to an "away" college (so she could not turn it down or refuse to pay.)

And I registered "Democrat" on the day I turned 21.

SERIOUS rebellion, that.

First this is an on-going societal problem that is only now beginning to be addressed anywhere. The last statistics I've heard are that 1 in 3 women and 1 in 5 men experience sexual abuse intheir lifetime. It stands to reason that a large part of the abuse occurs when victims are at their most vulnerable and powerless, i.e.: when they are children. And, sorry to have to say it, but these hideous statistics are the direct results of and outcomes of all cultures dominated by males; (historically, meaning during recorded history) this means nearly all of them.

It's not surprising then, that extremely patriarchal organizations, like Catholicism and Mormonism, are some of the biggest parts of the problem, but again, all patriarchal institutions, and, again, until recently, that's been all of them - religion, government, even academia have been thoroughly patriarchal. Sigmund Freud uncovered so many sexual abuse cases among his "hysterical" patients that he finally decided to deny their experiences altogether. Apparently, it was much easier to label huge numbers of his patient liars, than face the results of the patriarchal society to which he (and all nearly every man born until extremely recently) was, automatically an heir.

Second, there is/was absolutely nothing any child in Utah can/could have done, to keep from being abused prior to the fairly recent enactment of mandatory reporting requirements for some institutional employees and some professionals. No amount of reporting to any Mormon adult would have made the slightest amount of difference, and, in many cases I'm aware of actually caused/causes more harm to the victims. These are, and unfortunately remain, the sad facts for victims in many cases, particularly in the "Morridor." Depressing, but unequivocally no victim's fault - ever. Neither your church, nor your school counselor - if Mormon (highly likely) and owning a penis (also highly likely until recently), and therefore a member of the special Mormon patriarchal fraternity, has ever been inclined or likely to help you in the least.

Your dysfunctional family, comprised of an at least partly delusional, and probably over-stressed and abused mother, marginally sane on her best day, and criminally insane on many other days would not and could not help you. Your necessarily narcissistic father could not and would not help you, let alone entertain, for more than a split second, the thought that his special nearly gods male club might might harbor someone who would sexually abuse you, or if he's a victim or perpetrator himself, admit the truth and the harm of the abuse.

It is not and never was your fault, and if you kept your mouth shut, you were one of the smarter ones.

Ive kept my mouth shut for long time because i never felt safe around my abuser even in older age but i am much stronger than i used to be and i can tell he is not happy with my progress because i can stand pretty strong now that i have to.

If you have been a scapegoat, the default voices in your head will continually tell you things are your fault and they are not. We here have proclaimed and demonstrated that you are loved and accepted, which is what you must remember. Not everyone is like your abusers. Stay strong and fight the darkness every day. Make a choice to live and walk away from the pain if you can. Janis, badassadam, much love to you, and to those of you who suffer. It's okay to express your pain and lighten your load here. You are not weak. You are getting stronger the more you talk about the pain and receive acknowledgement and love from this community.

The default voices of my family do say its my fault and they also add religion in there to point an exlamation mark on thats its all my fault. So its been very hard to find the will and the hope to get recovered when ive been against them and their jesus my entire life. Its like im forced to be the bad guy by default because i am nothing like them. But i am greatful to be accepted somewhere because i do feel i have way more value than they could ever admit or acknowledge to my face.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2017 01:53PM by badassadam.

Remember: You're not crazy - even when you did lose it in front of your abusers - to their delight. So many posters above know exactly what happens to scapegoats. Sleep and peace to you. I know the torture goes on forever, but come here and lay it down and we'll support you. It's mostly safe here.

It is to their delight they want you to lose your shit in front of them and prove in their minds that they are the sane ones. It drives me nuts just thinking about it but i dont want to retaliate with violence i want to continue to get well with my therapy as they crash and burn in the cult.

I grew up with a very abusive father in the 60s and 70s. Back then there was no protection for abused children that I was aware of, and if your neighbors were aware of any abuse they "kept to themselves" as it was none of their business. Live and let live was the motto back then.

An alcoholic man with his wife and two sons lived next door. They adopted two little girls from Vietnam and used them as their servants and sex slaves. The little girls waited on the family and did all the housework. The drunken father sexually abused them. I heard the neighbors whisper about it. This was in a very nice neighborhood in 1970. The alcoholic neighbor broke into my families' house and tried to rape our babysitter when my parents were at a party. He was thrown in jail for that, but only overnight, as I recall. Shortly after, the alcoholic neighbor and his family moved, mostly because they were too embarrassed to face their neighbors. I often thought about those two adopted girls and wondered what happened to them. Many adults, including my parents, knew they were abused but no one helped them.

Another problem with a child growing up in an abusive home is that they often have nothing to compare their life to and so think that abuse is the norm. Everyday in my home was filled with terror not knowing when my rage-aholic father would snap and start hitting. We all hid when he came home from work because he had to hit someone before he could calm down after his hectic day on the job; spanking a child was his tranquilizer. It was just the way it was and we survived the best we could. Back then(60s and 70s) kids didn't talk about their home life - I never talked about mine and neither did my friends, so no one knew what a normal home life was supposed to be. This might sound funny, but I didn't know my family was abnormal until the Brady Bunch aired. I wondered why my family wasn't like the Brady's and started to think that something wasn't right... Thank God my parents finally divorced and my psycho father moved out.

To this day, I have a recurring nightmare about running away from an abuser and stopping to ask people for help. They all look at me like I'm crazy and no one will help. I continue running with the abuser closing in. I think that dream sums up my childhood with abusive parents. I was trapped in a horrible situation and no one could/would help.

Badassadam, the best you can do is get therapy and move on. You were a victim and were helpless to do anything. You can retaliate by not perpetuating the abuse. My brothers have nice families. They don't hit their kids so it's likely that their kids won't be abusers. Hopefully the cycle of abuse has stopped.

Thanks for sharing that, 60s Child.

As nearly as I can remember, we met at the beginning of the school year in 1960. For some reason, we "clicked" at a very profound level.

I could tell her about my mother, the abusive alcoholic monster. She could tell me about her father, the raging maniac who made my friend stay in her room, door closed, for hours, because her father didn't feel like wearing clothes. (He was a very weird dude. When, in tottering old age, he was told he had no choice and must move into a nursing home, he committed suicide when sent home to "pack.")

My BFF and I met in junior high, but attended different high schools. My mother insisted that our phone calls could only be 10 minutes long, and had to be conducted in her presence. Since BFF and I were both studying Spanish, I think I tried talking to her in Spanish during one of our calls, so we could have a modicum of privacy. My alcoholic mother came unhinged at that, and began bellowing "ENGLISH! ENGLISH! ENGLISH!" over and over, so loudly that we could not hear each other. She said, "I'm not listening, but you have to speak English." I pointed out, "If you're not listening, what difference does it make?" She made a lunge for me, but she was drunk and I wasn't, so the attack misfired.

BFF and I created devious ways to stay in touch, (in the days before cell phones). We laughed about our deviousness as adults.

Our friendship outlasted husbands, children, and long distances apart. Our ex-husbands used to bitch about our three-hour-long phone calls, but we both had good jobs and paid the phone bills ourselves, so we told the spouses where to stick their complaints.

Only death could separate us, and it has been 2 1/2 years now. She is the main reason why I hope there is an afterlife.