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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 02:06PM

There is a Mormon family across the street from us. They have 7 kids. The youngest girls love to play with my daughter (they are all under the age of 6). I like the parents, they are close to my age and we get along. I have never felt any religious pressure from them, so I am friendly and neighborly towards them. My nevermo hubby invited them to come play on Saturday. He knows how I feel about getting too close to any Mormons, but he just wanted the kids to be able to play and to hang with another dad in the neighborhood. The dad brought over the youngest girls to play with our kids. We all hung out for awhile and had a nice time. The kids left a few items at my house (no biggie), so yesterday dad comes by with the youngest kids (ugh I hate unannounced visits from anyone). I figured it was to retrieve the items. He and my hubby chatted for awhile, then two of my kids went to their house to play for a bit. When my kids came home they had cookies with them. My nevermo hubby sees it as a kind gesture, but I see it as a love bomb. I must also mention this guy has recently been 'called' to be a counselor in the bishopric of the ward I'm 'supposed' to be in.
I then find out from my hubby that during their chatting on Saturday and when he was here yesterday (I was out of earshot) that he asked my nevermo hubby if I could be the pianist for the ward choir (that my parents are in, btw, we live in the same area).
So let's recap:
-he went behind my back and asked my nevermo hubby if I would come play the piano for choir practice.
-he said they needed someone who was a better player than then one who currently does it. There is a beautiful baby grand in my living room, and yes I do play, but he has no idea whether or not I'm any good, let alone better than the current pianist.
-the love bomb came home with the kids (cookies)
-at first my husband told him to just talk to me about it, but then he told him that I get all kinds of push/pull from family and others about church stuff and that I probably wouldn't be interested.

What started out to be just a playdate for the kids ended up being an entanglement of passive manipulation. Mind you, he never once approached me directly about the piano playing.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 02:44PM

Oh ya. I hear ya: The Ulterior Motive! They can't just be neighborly, it's always, always about trying to get someone to church with any kind of ploy they can think of.

My hubby was a member and I was not about to put up with home teachers coming into my home to discuss Mormonism after I had resigned. We had an agreement about that. I told them could visit, but no religion talk. Actually, I think my husband told them that out of respect for me. It worked fine. Have to set boundaries. They can talk church stuff ..... at church!

You may want to set some very clear boundaries with this neighbor dad and mom. Make it clear to everyone that there play time and visiting are not religious time. It's a taboo subject.
May have to say it many times, as most often, the TBM's don't think anything you say applies to them!

Good luck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2017 02:45PM by SusieQ#1.

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Posted by: jdoubledub ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 02:51PM

Something similar happened when I started to become inactive. I hadn't been to church in a while and my now ex wife was talking about me to the bishopric in ward counsel. I got an email from the new elder's quorum president, I was assuming is was some sort of last ditch effort as they never tried anything before.

So get this, he asked to borrow my table saw. He said he was doing a project for his home and wanted to borrow it--for 2 MONTHS!! Since I no longer felt guilty about acquiescing to such bullshit, I said no. He persisted. I finally had to tell him off. I was like, "dude, i don't know why you would think me letting you borrow my stuff for 2 months is even normal. You only reached out because my wife requested it. Where was it before? When I was active, I never heard from the elder's quorum. Also, you make a lot of money (he is a radiologist), and my saw was a couple hundred bucks at home depot. You need one for that long, go buy one."

Never heard from them again....thank god!

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 03:04PM

Mormons love to borrow. Good luck if the item comes back in tip top shape. If he did borrow it, the blade would be dull, and they would not feel they should return the saw with a brand new blade from home depot.

Yeah, I know a guy that has a box van. The church doesn't ask for him to use it during family movies because he told them off and it's only for business. Oh you need a truck, well go rent one you cheap fuckers.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 03:05PM

Got to go through the priesthood leader you know....out of respect and because he has the dick in the house.

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 03:20PM

That's the weird part...my husband has never been Mormon. No 'priesthood holders' in this house. It's like he had to get permission from my dad...but it was my husband. So f'ing ridiculous.

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Posted by: shapeshifter ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 03:33PM

So f'ing annoying! I am sorry. But not surprised they were bound to find a sleazy way to try and get you back sooner or later.

I love how they think they are so sneaky and clever using something like asking you to play piano because they saw you had a piano and then using flattery to try and entice you further.

It's so transparent to outsiders but they don't see that.

And since they always have your 'best interests at heart' they don't see anything wrong with a little manipulation (though I don't even think they are aware they are doing that somehow, it's something they've all been taught and involved in for so long they don't understand it's deceptive and abusive).

The thing is too they will ALWAYS try ways to convert, both 'in actives'/ apostates, and nevermo's. And they learned in their missionary service all of the sales tactics known to man. Esp. as you get friendlier with them at all that's when they will try more.

It's extra lame and crappy that he went behind your back and asked your husband instead of you directly. It's very disrespectful and there is an element of sexism in it. Like maybe your husband has the same power as Mormon hubbies do to tell their wives what to do. Or at least heavily influence their decision.

But more likely he was afraid to ask you directly. I noticed after I became 'ex' status and was ever around Mormons, mostly they had a hard time approaching me directly about coming back. Esp. my family, after I blew my top at them a few times when they wouldn't stop.

That was when my dad when to my then hubbie behind MY back and asked him to come visit the temple and see the temple Xmas lights. Of course the invite was for both of us to come. And being a guest in my family's house at the time and a never Mo (and also new to the family) he of course felt he could not say no. And I know my dad knew he wouldn't be able to. So we went and I forgot how awful it was, that we would be accosted at every turn at the 'visitor's center' by missionaries and Mormon multi media propaganda.

The thing is my dad actually must have thought his tactics were okay because what mattered was getting back in that temple atmosphere that is supposedly just so inspiring (gag!) and that I would forgive him for his manipulation because I would remember how wonderful it was at the temple and I would immediately want to join and of course so would my husband (or at the least they hoped to convert him and get me back by default), because he had never heard 'the true gospel' before so when he did he of course would want to join!

He was wrong about everything though and I got really pissed. I ended up confronting him and telling him in no uncertain terms that he is NOT to EVER EVER again try a stunt like that. Trying to preach the gospel to my partner was NOT okay and I would never speak to them again if he tried it again.

He was terrified of my reaction, but I can tell you it WORKED. He never pulled that shit again.

But a few years before that (before I got married) he did another lame ass tactic a lot like what happened to you. I was asked to shoot a Mormon family's wedding (was doing wedding photography at the time), it was for a family from the ward I grew up in so I said okay to it. (and that family did not say one word to me about my Mormon status nor did anyone at the wedding).. Of course I didn't photograph the 'wedding' but the reception and the pictures at the temple on the outside.

Well at the reception my brilliant dad finds another great opportunity to try to get me back, this after at least a couple of years of my coming out to them about my ex-status.

Anyway he asked the stake president or some fancy pants bishop, can't remember, but he was in charge of some single's ward in my city at the time and of course he was used to people deferring to him, in his high leadership position. My dad got him to come and 'invite' me to the single's ward. I knew it was my dad, I saw him standing not far off watching, waiting to see if his plan would work.

Well this man had that high pressure salesman approach where he just wasn't going to take no for an answer, nor was he used to anyone saying no to him. I can't remember the words he used, but he came in real close in my personal space, took my hand very firmly in his, looked me directly in the eyes and then did the invite deal. (Full of how they would just 'love' to see me there, and all that crap.).

Well I am a shy person by nature and if I hadn't felt so strongly about my position and so angry at my dad, I might have at least pretended to go along. But as it was I just looked him right back in the eyes and said a firm and simple NO. And then I said I was no longer involved in the church and hadn't been for some time and was not interested in coming back.

His mouth just hung open and he was clearly in shock. My dad got very embarrassed right then but I wasn't sorry. He deserved to be embarrassed. I wasn't going to say yes as some kind of 'favor' to my dad who was being a sneaky manipulate asshole!

This guy couldn't say anything else so I walked away and left him there. The jerk.

Sorry for the lengthy response, this kind of thing just really really gets my ire up!

I would say if you want to maintain any kind of relationship at all you need to be very clear and very confrontational with them (they hate hate hate direct confrontations, most people do, but still I think Mormons have a harder time because they are so used to being phony).. and tell them that if they want to be friends, or good neighbors or have your kids play with theirs, they need to respect that you do not want to go to church, nor do you want to be asked, nor do you want your kids or husband to be asked.

It has to be on your terms, with respect to your boundaries, or nothing at all. If you don't say it very clearly (actually I know your husband said something, but it may be better for you to do it and to tell him directly that you did not appreciate him not talking to you directly), than they will keep trying and your kids esp. may be at risk as they may be more vulnerable to the love bombing tactics.

Anyway good luck, let us know how it goes!

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 02:54PM

shapeshifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It's extra lame and crappy that he went behind
> your back and asked your husband instead of you
> directly. It's very disrespectful and there is an
> element of sexism in it. Like maybe your husband
> has the same power as Mormon hubbies do to tell
> their wives what to do. Or at least heavily
> influence their decision.

I think you are right about this. It's that Mormon way of thinking that the man is in charge. Period. He probably thought he could get my husband to tell me I had to or something. Or maybe he was afraid to ask me and that was his way of putting the feelers out first.

As Summer suggested, I will let it go for now. If it resurfaces then I will have some words. The whole thing was just so sneaky and manipulative! Makes me very suspicious of them now. I mean, I don't trust Mormons in general because of their tactics, but I'm thinking he thinks he holds some authority now that he's in the bishopric. I'm older than him by 1 year. I made sure he knew that. LOL

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Posted by: be careful ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 04:06PM

"then two of my kids went to their house to play for a bit. When my kids came home they had cookies with them."

**RED FLAG ALERT**

Your kids are over at their house unmonitored? How do you know they aren't being subtly indoctrinated behind your backs, being told how wonderful it is at church, maybe singing a few Primary songs?

Even if they see you as a lost cause, your kids may not be. Keep your guard up. If the kids start mentioning how they'd like to see their friends at church, or humming "follow the prophet," or if your daughter suddenly want to start covering up her shoulders in mid-summer or talk about "modesty," it might be time to re-think the friendship.

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 01:56PM

be careful Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "then two of my kids went to their house to play
> for a bit. When my kids came home they had cookies
> with them."
>
> **RED FLAG ALERT**
>
> Your kids are over at their house unmonitored? How
> do you know they aren't being subtly indoctrinated
> behind your backs, being told how wonderful it is
> at church, maybe singing a few Primary songs?
>
> Even if they see you as a lost cause, your kids
> may not be. Keep your guard up. If the kids start
> mentioning how they'd like to see their friends at
> church, or humming "follow the prophet," or if
> your daughter suddenly want to start covering up
> her shoulders in mid-summer or talk about
> "modesty," it might be time to re-think the
> friendship.

I know, I know. This was literally the 2nd time in the 2 1/2 years we've been neighbors that my kids have played over there. And it was for 1 hour. They are at MUCH greater risk being at my parent's house (which is pretty regularly) where it's a house full of TBMs (my sister and her family of 5 live there too), it's a Mormon museum of religious art, books, and quotes, etc. My goal is not to shelter my kids, but build their immunity to Mormonism. It's not an easy task, but well worth it.

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Posted by: rubi123 ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 04:19PM

I don't think you should worry about the cookies. Kids like cookies and to call that love bombing seems extreme.

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 01:57PM

rubi123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think you should worry about the cookies.
> Kids like cookies and to call that love bombing
> seems extreme.


Except that it was accompanied by the passive, behind my back, ask my husband if I would play the piano for the ward choir.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 04:25PM

The old adage "Never look a gift horse in the mouth" doesn't apply to mormons. In fact, mormon gift horses should be scrutinized and be kicked in the balls and sent home. Teach your kids to not accept cookies or anything else from those neighbors. They always have an ulterior motive.

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Posted by: Swiss Miss ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 04:29PM

Mormons can't help themselves. They're taught that "every member is a missionary," one of the many guilt inducing teachings from their leaders. I used to be just like your neighbors - unable to meet anyone or make a new nevermo friend without feeling pressured to convert them to the Mormon church. All of my nevermo boyfriends were totally freaked out when they accompanied me to church, usually during an especially weird Sunday school or sacrament meeting. I could just die of embarrassment thinking about it! I was under constant pressure as a TBM to convert everyone I came in contact with.

It was such a HUGE relief when I finally broke away from the Mormon craziness. It was so nice to meet new people and make new friends without the constant pressure to convert them. It's so good to be free!

I think your neighbors will be relieved if you tell them you don't want anything to do with church. Hopefully it will relieve them of the burden of trying to convert you. They'll probably end up ignoring or shunning you though.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 02:11PM

I wouldn't worry about the cookies. If your kids go over there again, just give them the standard debriefing -- "What did all of you do over there?"

I think it's funny that the man talked to your husband instead of you, as he might with a priesthood holder. It's like the neighbor has no other idea of how to conduct that conversation. I would let it go for now. If he raises it with you, look puzzled and respond, "Oh, right, DH mentioned that to me. I will not be returning to church, ever, so that's not going to happen. Please don't bring anything like that up again."

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 02:31PM

I'm proud that after the mission I took no part in helping anyone convert to the church. Being a part of it was a problem in itself.

It's too much a religion that tries to change your entire life to revolve around Mormon culture.

The world and life experience is bigger than that bubble.

Now, I have the on going Christian in my area that drop invitations to their Baptist or Methodist church. I don't mind. I have a trash can.

I go to some of the gatherings when they bring out the jump castles, carnival event kinds of stuff.


They always appear so desperate for new recruits. My family is polite, we enjoy the festivities and we go home. I get a few mailers and then they get the hint.

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Posted by: yeppers ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 03:14PM

Don't get so worked up over this.

Of course this will happen. It's what they do.

Just say "No thank you" and let it be it.

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 03:24PM

yeppers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't get so worked up over this.
>
> Of course this will happen. It's what they do.
>
> Just say "No thank you" and let it be it.


Manipulation of any kind does get me worked up. And I am letting it be, because I'm not going to go pound on their door and say 'how dare you ask my husband if I could play piano for the choir!' LOL

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Posted by: gheco ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 03:21PM

Loan the neighbor kids your copy of "God is Not Great, how religions poison everything" by Christopher Hitchens.

The indoctrination of your kids will stop immediately.

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 03:22PM

gheco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Loan the neighbor kids your copy of "God is Not
> Great, how religions poison everything" by
> Christopher Hitchens.
>
> The indoctrination of your kids will stop
> immediately.


LMAO I love this idea!!

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 10:32AM

Piano playing is the gateway drug to mormonism.
Treble hook in the lip.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 10:58AM

I think my neighbors know better now considering who we've become (lol). But there are always the new move-ins that think they need to save us. Happens less and less. And just because I said that, we'll be the new project soon.

What I've done with some of my neighbors is if they send me cookies, I give them something back. I love their kids and, thankfully, I don't have any little kids, so I do things for their kids and their kids do things for me now. I think it started out as save the neighbor lady, but I don't think it is that any longer. They are a different type of mormon. Both come from divorced parents (husband is the youngest of all the kids in his family and the only child of the third father). I also live in a unique ward for Utah. Best ward I ever lived while I was active mormon.

What they did would really piss me off, too. They seem to think we can't read their motives. They forget that we were once active mormon. We know how they do these things. I was always really uncomfortable with doing anything like that and very seldom did unless under a lot of pressure.

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Posted by: danr ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 11:57AM

I wouldn't worry too much about it, the tbm husband was just checking with your husband to see where you stand. It's totally wrong for him to do not come to you first, but he was testing the temperature of the water.

Set the boundaries about religion if they ever bring it up, but if they truly just want to be friends without any other motives, give them a chance for your kids. Some Mormons may just want to be friends. If not, then you can deal with that later.

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 12:35PM

I do think he was testing the waters with my husband...I actually said that to him when he told me about it all. I just now have to be on high alert. Mayyybe they've been slowly working up to this kind of stuff (trying to reel me back into tssc) all this time (2 1/2 years). Which makes me even more leery of them. Think about it: become friends, let the kids play and form friendships, plus we have been recipients of holiday love bombs.

Their youngest girls (ages 3 and 4) are the cutest sweetest little things and they do love playing with my 6 year old. They are too young to realize anything about what's going on, religion-wise. They just want to play Barbies with my daughter. So I'm trying to let the kids just be kids (but not get too close). As a kid I loved being able to play with the neighborhood kids, except I was the Mormon and they were the non-Mormons. I can only wonder what our neighbors, when I was growing up, thought about us!

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 12:21PM

Were the cookies on plate with clear plastic wrap a a mormon might do to a love bomb? Or did the kiddies just have half eaten cookies in their hands?

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 12:28PM

Yes. The cookies were on a plate, inserted into a clear plastic baggie.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 12:35PM


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Posted by: just sayin ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 12:30PM

I would never let TBMs have custody or control of my children, not for a moment.

I take it back. They would be encouraged to grab one or two when fleeing the burning building, but I would keep my eye on them.

As for the piano "invite," have they never heard of a Karaoke machine? The current pianist could pretend to be playing. It would fit right in with all the other pretending that goes on.

The neighbor didn't want a pianist to play; he wanted to play the pianist. Reactivation is all the rage right now. Is there any chance they talk to your parents - or, ward to ward record sharing?

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Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 12:50PM

just sayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The neighbor didn't want a pianist to play; he
> wanted to play the pianist. Reactivation is all
> the rage right now. Is there any chance they talk
> to your parents - or, ward to ward record sharing?

So the lady who holds choir practice in her home...she bought the house we almost bought, but we cancelled out of escrow (long story). Everyone in this ward seems to know about that. My parents and my busy-body sister are in this ward too. My dad is also the ward clerk, so they all have the 411 on me. I have met this lady and heard plenty of things about her. There is no way that I am a better piano player than her. This is all a reactivation ploy that my parents and sister have been unsuccessful at. For all I know my family put them up to it because they know that we get along just fine with these neighbors. Mormons are so sneaky it disgusts me. I either need to get my name removed and deal with the fallout from that, or move out of state. My other sister (also a TBM, but we are super close) said that moving out of state (away from our parents and some drama-filled siblings) was life changing.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 01:10PM


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Posted by: just sayin ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 02:11PM

Ugh. I'm sorry. You can leave, but they can't leave you alone.

Moving away is life-changing. Don't jump into anything, but start making inquiries into areas that might suit you. Family love-bombs could be met with talk of how wonderful the State 2000 miles away sounds to you, along with factual attractiveness. It is also an excellent mental exercise to explore your actual options, solidifying that staying or leaving are actual choices, rather than a trap vs. a dream.

My best to you.

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Posted by: anonculus ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 01:57PM

"Sure I'll come play the piano. For $100."

Never turn down a gig you don't want, just quote a high price.

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