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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 08:00AM

Porn. They found it on his church owned machine.

Or....

Masturbation. The cleaning person caught him in the act.

Or....

Insert sexual transgression here.

Probably an affair. I remember Brian The Christ talking about having one with a woman's organization leader when he was bishop? Or someone else? Cr@ig P@xtion maybe?

I think "the sin next to murder" is a swift excommunication when you are a leader. My father molested his adopted daughters as a MTC branch president. They were quick and it took over a decade for his re-baptism and he still complains about how long they took.

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Posted by: a nonny mouse ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 08:54AM

I think that's what the church wants people to think by pointing out that it isn't apostasy. I think it's just like when people can't get a temple recommend, especially when others might notice, like a child's wedding. In all likelihood, it's that their tithing is in arrears, but the humiliation! Everyone will think they are screwing the canine. I bet it's money. Maybe he stole, maybe he was going to expose something about how the church was handling money.

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Posted by: anonski2! ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 09:10AM

Has to be either an affair, or a closeted homosexual.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 01:48PM

After looking into it I would say he is starting to explore his homosexual side. It would be the most likely to be hushed like this is.

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Posted by: anonculus ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 02:09PM

I wonder which side that is? Dorsal or ventral?

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Posted by: hold up ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 09:39AM

"When individuals or groups of people turn away from the principles of the gospel, they are in a state of apostasy."

https://www.lds.org/topics/apostasy?lang=eng

If sexual sins are included in "gospel principles," then we can count that out.

I am leaning toward leaking or a dispute with a more powerful 70.

It could be something ss meaningless as coffee. LDS wants you out, you're out. I think he'll eventually say, unless he thinks he can get back in - all the way in. He mey be stuck. Exing is painful, and I have no glee over this. He has been a brainwashed human.

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Posted by: Hedning ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 10:00AM

My bet is homosexual activity. He was first married at age 27 in the 1984. Any of you who lived through this era (Kimball/Benson) know that if a guy was not married within a year of getting back from mission, very likely gay.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 10:06AM

In his photo, he seems to be dressed a little too well.

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 10:26AM

A mormon guy at my work is single (and effeminate to me..."not that there is anything wrong with that...").

He is 28 and considered (jokingly to him..), the old creepy guy at his Singles' Ward meetings.

28 is creepy and old to mormons??????

My uneducated guess for the mormon honcho....is closeted gay dude...."not that there is anything wrong with that..."except the closeted part..

"Quotes" are in reference to a Seinfeld episode...

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Posted by: Mornomore ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 10:14AM

Gave Quinn info for new book, disagreed with wording of essay(s)? Lots of possibilities not reaching the level of "apostasy".

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Posted by: Villager ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 12:25PM

I thought this too with Quinn's book being just released.

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 10:30AM

Seems to me that if it were sexual sins they would have just made him emeritus and brushed it under the carpet rather than let the world know that any of their top brass is fallible. He'd been in long enough that no one would have even noticed.

So my guess is that it was something that pissed them off like, as you say, leaking something, criticizing the Big 15, etc. Obviously they wanted it public that he was ex'd. Making an example of him, so others will think twice makes sense to me.

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Posted by: kenc ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 11:18AM

I am thinking similarly to you Norma Rae. I recall Grant Palmer's report that he was secretly meeting with a SP and a Seventy who gave him all sorts of information that was not supposed to be shared with anyone outside of the inner circle of old, white, wrinkly leaders.

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Posted by: T-Bone ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 10:56AM

Anecdotally, 10% of the world is homosexual. Since Mormons are just people, 10% of them are probably homosexual.

I don't buy in to this culture of shame. The more Mormonism tries to oppress homosexuality, the more "scandals" they will have.

The sad thing is that gays in Mormonism have to keep it secret or face being exed. That can't lead to a healthy expression of sexuality.

T-Bone

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Posted by: Jaxson ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 11:00AM

My money is on some sort of affair. There is NO WAY the church would make him emeritus or sweep that under the rug...too many people involved. Let's use adultery as an example. Woman feels guilty, tells her husband, tells her Bishop, tells her Stake President, perhaps tells family/friends, etc. Too many people to keep silent and sweep it under the rug.

Now if it were for apostasy... I could easily see that being swept under the rug, emeritus status being granted, and Hamula being told to shut up and he gets to keep all of his perks. There is NO WAY the church is going to ex him and take the risk of pissing him off, going rogue, and speaking out against the church organization. I believe the church when it says it wasn't due to apostasy.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 11:11AM

I'm not sure. I know a mormon guy that got caught having affairs with his coworkers-twice. No telling how many he got away with. His stake president was informed. He's still a member.

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Posted by: Jaxzon ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 11:15AM

Was he a G.A.?

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 09:04PM

Jaxzon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was he a G.A.?

Yes.
"This morning James J. Hamula was released as a General Authority Seventy of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, following church disciplinary action by the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles,"

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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 11:38AM

Whatever it was, did the big wigs make him sign some sort of non-disclosure agreement? Would he really do it or tell them to bug off?

Oh, how I wish this WAS apostasy and that it might be some kind of crack in the system.

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 01:52PM

I think the agreement not to disclose precedes appointment to the position. BTW, loss of testimony and belief only constitutes apostasy IF one joins another church or openly teaches contrary doctrines. It appears the offense is something which would be embarrassing to the person to made public. Of course, the catchall "conduct unbecoming" includes anything and everything even spitting on the sidewalk.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 11:56AM

Yeah, it had to be something really major and embarrassing to the the church like:

Having an affair in a barn and getting caught by his wife, or,

Marrying other men's wives and mothers & daughters, or,

Breaking a direct commandment from God, like maybe something from Doctrine and Covenants, or,

Having his own private bodyguards that might kill his opponents, or,

Becoming mentally unstable and saying irrational things like there are people living on the sun, or that he'd put a javelin through his own brother's heart if he was in an interracial marriage, or,


Going into Starbucks.


Something really bad like that.

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Posted by: Leaving ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 12:58PM

to draw attention away from Holland's retraction.

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Posted by: East Coast Exmo ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 01:01PM

Like covering up a fart by firing a gun?

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 01:51PM

That does work.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: August 09, 2017 05:10PM

. . . one would expect that it would be quickly leaked as an example of what happens to sexual sinners in a sex-obsessed cult.

On the other hand, if his excommunication was based on "disloyal" criticism or rejection of Mormonism's history and practice of lying about or condoning its changing and offensive doctrine; sordid and recorded history; and/or corrupted and conniving leaders, the Mormon Church might want to keep those reasons hidden from view.

Why? Because those elements of disbelief and dillusionment can be much more easily traced and verified through books, public reportage, historical examination/research and other easily-obtainable fact sources.
____


related RfM link: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2004706

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 12:33AM


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Posted by: Slo.Mo ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 08:48AM

Again as I said elsewhere, this is not necessarily a sex thing.

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Posted by: Strength in the Loins ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 09:16AM

I'm super intrigued by this question. Knowing how the cult operates, I am certain that exxing a GA is an option of absolute last resort. They thrive on creating the impression that their leaders are super dooper righteous and talk to God. They create the impression that these men are modern day prophets. So having one fall from grace and getting exxed badly damages that impression.

If they could have quietly made this thing go away, they would have. If it were the simple matter of an affair, even a homosexual one, they'd sweep it under the rug. However, if they were worried about it going public and seeing it turn into a scandal, then yes, they would likely try to get ahead of it and throw the guy under the bus. In Mormonism, you can do whatever you want, so long as you can lie convincingly and you don't make the church look bad.

Anyways, when you realize that the church will protect its own and that exxing is GA is the option of last resort, it starts to narrow down the possibilities.

I dearly hope it's for apostasy and that Hamula has been the leaker in the COB. But even then, the church may well have threatened to destroy him and his family if he didn't go away quietly. I'm not expecting to hear much out of Hamula. If I do, it will be a pleasant surprise.

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Posted by: lillium ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 10:07AM

I completely agree with this.

They so want the world to view mormons as perfect, that they cover up just about anything. UNLESS they can't keep it under control. If he will be charged legally or if there are photos or if outsiders know and can't be controlled to keep it secret, only then will they ex the person and pretend to be on top of the situation.

If he's not charged or if a big scandal doesn't become public, then there's a pretty good chance it was apostasy no matter what the official line is.

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Posted by: sparty ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 09:57AM

If the church says that it ISN'T for apostasy, then my personal bet is that it is almost definitely for apostasy.

I think that the church would be happy to sweep a lot of sins behind the tacky temple curtains to avoid giving themselves a black eye in the media. But a GA who doesn't believe? That could do lasting damage. Now if he tries to speak out about any church history, teachings, etc, he has no credibility in the eyes of the membership. "Why would we take his criticisms seriously? He was excommunicated and obviously offended."

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Posted by: fordescape ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 12:14PM

Whatever the reason, I wonder about his family. I hope they're okay. No one should have to pay for the sins of the father.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 02:18PM

If it was an affair, he got his first taste and feeling sexual excitement from a totally different person than the woman you are so used to. If she's under 30 good for you!

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Posted by: rhgc ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 02:58PM

Given his warnings in a conference talk, I would expect him to say: "Satan made me do it."

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Posted by: Satan ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 09:24PM

Inside dope is he was drinking coffee and shopping on Sunday.

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Posted by: anonculus ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 02:12PM

He was exed for having a tattoo.

It was an accident with a pen. It punctured his skin and created a permanent blue dot.

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Posted by: anon for this ( )
Date: August 10, 2017 11:46PM


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Posted by: mlhunter165 ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 12:26AM

What level do the higher ups get "their calling and election made sure" that extra special endowment so you can justify treating all the others below you like crap?
Wouldn't that make excommunication impossible?
I hope we find out what happened.

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 12:57AM

As for that million $ they give GAs (hold it over their heads)at signing, I tell TSCC they'd have to consult rocks in their hats to find it!

Ngnahahahah!

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 01:26AM

reader comments section:

http://religionnews.com/2017/08/08/top-mormon-leader-is-excommunicated-how-much-do-we-deserve-to-know-about-why/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2017 01:27AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 07:45AM

The simplest reason isn't apostasy nor heresy in my opinion. The simplest is the Morg's obsessive compulsion for self protection. There are people who know he did something unbecoming a GA and they are the ones who can't live with it. They have a problem with him. Also, "They" are probably The Big 15 and like all good hypocrites something they would sweep under the temple rug for themselves is cause to crucify this guy.

In my opinion, it is something simple. There is a cafeteria-type structure of beliefs in Mormonism. Hamula disagreeing with some apostle on the finer points of atonement is probably not going to do it.

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Posted by: Aquarius123 ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 08:11AM

Why don't the powers that be just tell us already. Geez. All this secrecy from an organization which is, at best, all up in every member's business.. come on, morg, now it's your turn to cough up some information.

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Posted by: thematrix ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 09:39AM

So interesting. I work with a guy who knows I no longer believe and he asked me what I thought. Apparently he is a long time friend of the family and currently going through a minor faith crisis. He now live in hamula's ward and is his neighbor. He said that hamula is an amazing guy and always been a bit mor liberal for his post. Hamula's children all/most left the church sometime ago. Here was the strangest part. In his ward they are circulating a meal sheet to take them food during these "troubling times". I've never heard of meals for the exed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2017 09:40AM by thematrix.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 10:51AM

There was an outpouring of sympathy from the ward and church people towards my father when he was caught molesting his adopted daughters. My sister (Greg Hudnall's wife) was the only person not living in the home with us who showed sympathy for his victims. I don't like her but I respected this. It was surreal how my father was seen a victim by so many. It was a huge weight on my shelf. What kind of peculiar people does that?

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Posted by: GC ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 10:15AM

I resigned years ago, but if I'd known they might deliver me meals for a period during my "troubled times", I'd have considered being ex'd!

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Posted by: gheco ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 02:51PM

They discovered he is a closet Democrat.

The hammer fell swiftly.

Blood Atonement would have been used if they had discovered he had supported Bernie Sanders.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 10:19AM

The Hamula fell swiftly and that's how fast they want this news to go away.

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Posted by: deja vue ( )
Date: August 11, 2017 09:03PM

Almost 3K comments in the SLT on the article on Hamula's excommunication. Really interesting bad press for the cult. I wonder if this may be used as an excuse for the cult to final come a little bit clean about it's obvious loss in membership even though the exodus has been happening over the past few years.

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Posted by: auntsukey ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 12:08PM

They CAN'T come a little bit clean.

Coming a little bit clean is equivalent to pulling out the corner stone that holds the weight of the building.

I laugh every time someone suggests that tssc be more truthful. To be more truthful is the beginning of the end.

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Posted by: anonculus ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 02:20PM

Exactly. Just like Nixon's "Limited Hangout"

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Posted by: esias ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 12:35PM

Hamula was ex-ed, and rightly so, for a perverted, warped and shameful peccadillo, adjudged to be very very sick and sent for urgent treatment when he confessed he enjoys in private listening to Adele.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 02:17PM

He would have had to get oral not aural from Adele.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: August 12, 2017 09:15PM

This is so hard on the family. I hope his family has good support from somewhere.
This does make me wonder if he has confessed something or someone reported him, or he is charged with some crime.

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