The name Nephilim is in the Hebrew in Genesis. Indeed, it is in the reason given to Noah for the destruction of man as it was the name given to the race of people where the "sons of God" saw the daughters of man and had offspring with them - being giants, and "heroes of old" etc. IOW they were demi-gods. Like the Greek Achilles. Aside from the fact that the whole thing in Genesis is a myth, it is obvious that JS was aware that while the KJV translates it into English as "giants", the fact is that the proper use - as in moders bibles - is Nephilim and they were a species half-man and half-god.

As an aside one can note the Mormonism makes Christ into being a demi-god, rather than part of a unified God. JS and BY et al concluded that an actual sexual intercourse took place - making Christ half-god, not wholly God. One of our daughters who went to BYU-I, stated that she was taught there that Jesus was "a demi-god." Not quite the Christian Jesus.

The mythology of that chapter of Genesis clearly was to get rid of the multitude of gods and demi-gods in the Greek and other religions. Christianity followed this. But JS reverted back to a pre-OT world.

A possible source for Joe's Nephi/Moroni fuck-up, according to Quinn. Joe being very much into angels guarding buried treasures.

rt nli Wrote:
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> A possible source for Joe's Nephi/Moroni fuck-up,
> according to Quinn. Joe being very much into
> angels guarding buried treasures.

ETA: see note 1 of the essay on BoM translation:

http://www.mormonism101.com/2013/12/book-of-mormon-translation.html

You miss the point. Some scholars have theorized that JS used the places and names from sources around him but missed the clear reason he made up the name Nephi. His study - remember he was in his twenties when he "translated" the BOM - included some knowledge of Hebrew, especially after he hired a rabbi to teach him. But even before, any well-trained minister would have known of the word from the Hebrew.

Even those who may have noted the Nephilim and realized this as the source for the name JS used for his first hero in the BOM; they failed to recognize that it referred to the alleged reason for the flood. Mind you, JS was so enthralled with the myth of the flood that he decided later that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri and that until the flood mankind lived on this continent rather than the middle east!

Remember, JS got convinced that since the word "Elohim" is a plural word, the creation was done by gods, not just God. The criticism of Mormonism as a religion of many gods is correct. That TSCC can still print the quad and claim to be part of general Christianity - or even an Abrahamic religion - is rather odd, to say the least.

rhgc Wrote:
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> Remember, JS got convinced that since the word
> "Elohim" is a plural word, the creation was done
> by gods, not just God.

Well, he was right. It is plural. It refers to the Canaanite god El and his consort(wife)Asherah/Athirat, and their offspring/relatives -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Canaanite_religion

>The criticism of Mormonism
> as a religion of many gods is correct. That TSCC
> can still print the quad and claim to be part of
> general Christianity - or even an Abrahamic
> religion - is rather odd, to say the least.

What I find even more odd is the "christian" and "abrahamic" insistence that they're *not* "religions of many gods." Since the Elohim are right there in the bible (as are many others as you point out), many of them named and called "gods." The point of the constructed-after-Babylonian-captivity "history" of the Hebrews wasn't that Yahweh was the ONLY god -- it was that it was the only god they should care about. Much of the OT is dedicated to stories meant to convince believers that Yahweh was the baddest-ass god of them all -- not that the other gods didn't exist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2017 10:02AM by ificouldhietokolob.

rhgc Wrote:
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> You miss the point.

I think you're right; after your follow-up post, I still do, to be honest. Is it that Joe took the name from the Bible? If that is the case, your theory needs a bit of work.

As Quinn points out in the reference I posted above, "the English language of Joseph Smith's generation had several examples of 'Nephi' as a name and prefix".

Quinn also mentions a number of sources for the name Nehi in books about magic, all of which would have been available to Joe the Glasslooker.

(As an aside, one of these sources was the Cabala, which the people in Joe's time associated with Egyptyian hieroglyphs. Apparently, the BoM opening phrases "learning of the Jews" and "language of the Egyptians" are cabalistic.)

Finally, I think Joe only learned Hebrew in Kirtland.

Given the Smith family's involvement in magic, I think an occult source is most likely for the name Nephi.

The connection with the flood sounds interesting though. Do you have any sources for the statement that Joe was "enthralled with the myth of the flood"?

The indication of JS having a thing for the flood is his "revelation" of the garden not only being on this continent, but he even showed the spot!

As for taking Nephi from Nephilim in Genesis, it is very early in the Bible and is a cause of the flood!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2017 02:23PM by rhgc.

Wait, isn't the protagonist in the Diablo III video game a Nephilim?

According to the in-game story, Nephilim are the offspring of some angels and demons who went rogue to escape the eternal conflict between Order and Chaos. Angels and demons were denied free will and were, thus, bound by their natures. But the Nephilim, being borne of both angels and demons, were free to choose between good and evil, order and chaos.

Coming back to the topic at hand, all we need is evidence that JS had an Xbox One or Playstation 4 on his nightstand next to his KJV Bible, "View of the Hebrews", and Capt. Kidd books.

Very interesting!

Joseph Smith had access to a KJV Bible with the Apocrypha.

He may have taken the name Nephi from 2 Maccabbees 1:36.

36 And Neemias called this thing Naphthar, which is as much to say as a cleansing: but many men call it Nephi.

See link:
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_2-Maccabees-Chapter-1/

Taking the name from Maccabees is reasonable especially was he used the Book of Judith for much of 1st Nephi especially in the beheading, only JS didn't use a woman. While the Bible has numerous heroines, the BoM is devoid unless the "mothers of the stripling warriors" are heroines.