When someone new moves in to your Ward and you send for their membership records, what do you get from Salt Lake? Do the records you get include a list of past confessions, past church disciplinary actions against the person, or other personal information that is questionable? Or do you simply get a confirmation that the person is really a member? If the person has a child molerting conviction or an armed robbery conviction, is that in the record that you get from Salt Lake? What if the person has a conviction for affinity fraud against other church members? Is there anything in the records that can be used to help the bishop to protect other Ward members from a predator who has supposedly repented but where the bishop would be totally clueless to potential harm that might be done by the new ward member, if not for information from the person's records in Salt Lake being communicated to the bishop?
It seems like this is an area where the church can't win. If the local leaders are kept in the dark about predators in their own respecrive wards, the church puts an unreasonable risk on to innocent people. If the church shares the person's private past information with the person's local leaders after say, the person's re-baptism, it could be argued that the church has not really forgiven the sinner at all.
So where does the church draw the line on really bad people who are likely to bring harm to innocent people again? Do they ever tell someone they are never welcome back as members for the rest of their life?
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2017 09:01PM by azsteve.
I know for a fact that the records the records that go to the ward are very vague, They just say what church callings you have had in the past. if you are a member in good Standing. They say weather or not you have been through the temple. If you have, then if you currently hold a temple recommend, What level of Priesthood you hold. Also you Tithe satus. Your family attachments etc.
Church Headquarters I have no doubt, have detailed records of inactivity, non tithing, Disiplinary stuff. That might have to be requested.
However it is common practice for the new Bishop at the new ward to contact the old Bishop at the old ward to Have a chat about the new ward member. Thus getting the low down...
Thanks, I heard that several years ago, anyone who had been excommunicated or disfellowshipped, would have to go back to their old ward where that disciplinary action actually took place, to be reinstated to good standing. And if the current bishop said "no" then the person couldn't be reinstated.
The way things are now, that has changed. The old ward leaders aren't even in the loop anymore. So over time, it looks like any con artist can get back in to good standing, just by playing the part of a good member for a short time. In many cases, it probably wouldn't matter anyway. Who cares if someone wants to smoke or drink and lie about it? But for the really bad ones (the sociopaths and big time serious offenders that really harm people), the church is now their playground. They harm the innocent and somehow, the church sees the victems as perpetrators when they don't want to blindly forgive a repeat, aggregious offender. In my mind, these loopholes undermine the whole religion, even though a lot of other things prove its a cult anyway.
I think there is an * next to the names of individuals who were excommunicated and rebaptized. The cult has the 2 dunks rule. A person can only be baptized twice. If they leave the cult after that, they are cast out.
What unbelievable2 says is what I always heard. You may well know someone who has been excommunicated at least three times. But can he or she reenter the church again?
azasteve: "If the church shares the person's private past information with the person's local leaders...it could be argued that the church has not really forgiven the sinner at all." --- If I represented the church', I should be more concerned about a defamation suit--especially if they make an unsustainable accusation.
I'm gloriously disfellowshipped. Last time I met with the so-called bishop, he was somewhat new to the position. He was asking about helping be get past the current status. I told him I don't have any interest in being reinstated. He asked why I had been disfellowshipped and I told him. He said that is what he thought but had not requested the records to see details from the court-o-love. I was somewhat surprised that he had to request them... I was sort of disturbed by that revelation as well. I've been thinking about getting the status changed, just so some ass-hat somewhere in the future cannot go digging up dirt on me if he is bored.
NEVER GO THROUGH A COURT-O-LOVE!!!! No how much you enjoy emotional scars.
I am glad I did go though the "love court". I won my appeal to the 1st presidency. When they attempted to re-try me, I resigned. My story can be found in the forum as "Before the Sanhedrin". I acted as Stephen in the Book of Acts.
It is tragically sad that these goof balls hone in on people like sharks and do not let up. If they have it in for you, they will find a way. I read your story. I think that that fort of love is a moral stand on the part of the prosecuted. My deal with having gone through it, is that mine was for sexual BS. Though I'm not proud of that, it should have been between my wife and I. Now there is some dossier somewhere with things that are no one's business but mine and my wife's. Some Bishop at some point could contact where ever the records are kept and read up on stuff that is none of his business. I've considered going through the refellowship process just to try to get that info out of the hands of any jackass bishop. The problem with that is not being able to handle the lying and tithing money to get back in the Morg's good graces only to somehow ask them to F off again. I think resigning would not clear up the accessibility to the dossier in my file. Stupid Cult.
Don't bother. When I was 28 I was ex'd in absentia. I hadn't been to church for at least 7 years.
My mother was pissed that I was going to marry a nevermo. He owned a home, and my apartment lease was up 2 weeks before our wedding. It was only logical that I move in with my soon to be hubby.
My parents had strong mormon connections in that area, even though I lived 20 miles away. My mother went on the war path and demanded that I be ex'd for 'my own good'. Thanks mom.
Three men i'd never met showed up at my door at 9pm on a Tuesday night. They handed me an envelope. It was like being served a summons by the FBI. I took their silly envelope and threw it in the fireplace while they watched from the front door step.
That was the last I ever heard from them. I assumed i'd been ex'd, and I was right. However, it was almost 20 years later before I learned the why of their crazy.
Yeah. I called SLC records. Told them who I was. They apparently believed me, I could have been anyone. The old guy on the phone told me I had been ex'd for 'illegal cohabitation'. I burst out laughing. That was about the dumbest thing i'd ever heard. He got all huffy and started to lecture me on how 'serious' that charge was. Oh for hell sakes! I refused to listen to that stupidity. I'd collected the info I wanted and wasn't interested in that old buzzards opinion.
The mormon church continues to hold that two weeks of my life against me almost 40 years later. They want me to give them all the sordid (lol) details of that two weeks before they will let me and hubby of 20 years (recommend holding TBM) be sealed to each other.
I would like to thank all of the old buzzards, asshats, and witches of true blue mormonism for being the insane people they are. It pushed me and my family to go online and find out the real truth of mormonism. It's saved 8 of us from mormonism in this immediate time frame. In the generations to come, I imagine it will be 100's of my ancestors that won't be mormon.
So thanks to the crazy senior missionaries that answer phones in SLC. You've saved me and my kids, grandkids, greatgrandkids, etc. from the cult. I hope you get brownie points in heaven for that.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2017 10:06PM by janis.
Here is how it works: When your records are sent, it is a standard membership record. It lists name, birthdate, spouse, and children (even if they don’t live with you). It does not mention past callings, tithing status, etc. If you are excommunicated, then obviously there is no record. If you are disfellowshipped or on formal probation, it states that at the bottom under “Notes”, and ask you to call the previous bishop. If you have had past disciplinary action, but it has been resolved, (e.g. rebaptised from ex, etc) then nothing is noted, unless the discipline was related to child molestation. Then there is a note for the bishop to call the office of Confidential Records, which is part of the Office of the FP. They will then fill you in on what you need to know.
Also, for whatever reason the former bishop can tag a record to have the new bishop call him. This could be for informal probation, or anything else the bishop want to pass on. But overall the records sent are pretty minimal as far as past activity.
Thanks for the explanation. It looks like a reasonable procedure. It also looks like there is a provision to prevent the extremely notorious offenders from hiding in plain sight.
A new Name Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If you are excommunicated, then obviously there is > no record.
I'm not sure that's the case.
I found out I had been ex'd (more than 30 years after the fact) when one of my relatives, doing family stuff, got my "family group sheet" from the church -- where it listed me as ex'd in 1981. I never got a "love-court" notice or exing notice, but I had moved and didn't give the church my address, so that's not surprising. But my "records" clearly listed it for all to see.
I think that he's using the term record to mean the information that is sent from ward to ward when you move. If you've been exed, there is no record to send to the ward since you're no longer a member. A family group sheet usually refers to genealogy. However, yes, they do keep a record of excommunicated members, as well as other information, but, it isn't typically sent out to the ward. But, of course, the bishop can request information.
Membership records in the general system give straight forward information. Name, place of birth, previous unit, parents, spouse, children, ordinance data.
If disfellowshipped this is noted. If re-baptised and awaiting blessings restoration this is noted. This is only visible to the Bishop/Stake President and Clerks.
No previous callings (even being ordained a bishop is not shown - though the system knows it if you try to recommend them to serve again) are shown.
Nothing about why you are disfellowshipped, or awaiting blessings restoration.
If a DC is required to consider full fellowship or re-baptism then the Bishop or Stake President request the confidential records. These are sent to the Stake President and are to enable all the facts pertinent to the original DC(s).
A person can theoretically be re-baptised multiple times. How many past two I have no idea.
It looks like your question has been answered. What about when you have turned down big callings, like High Councilman? I turned it down at a very busy stressful time as a young professional just out of school with three young kids. Ever since then I was only offered bogus callings such as SS Pres., Secretary of Quorum, etc....despite being the proper demographic for High Council, Bishop, or any stake calling...white, wealthy, prominent in community, life-long member.