A month ago, I let my home teacher, who is/was my bishop, know of hearing and reading ex-mo stuff. He was here visiting and he flipped out on me. I told him of numerous things I NEVER knew about or even knew to question something.
When he was here, on June 11th, it happened to be the very day, 40 years earlier, I joined the church in northern CA. I was so excited that day- 40 years of doing something besides breathe.
I got an email from a very dear friend last night telling me of a new bishop today. Maybe I opened his eyes as well? He has such a neat family. I am curious to see what he said on his exit speech in sac.? Should I feel bad? I feel bad being duped for 40 years of my life, living a lie. Why be good or nice or be of service to others?
I also believe in karma. I recently read the golden rule is not from Jesus but, the Jewish beliefs.

How do you know he didn't quit because he was "called" to a stake position or maybe he quit because he is moving?

Really don't know yet. All i do know is: he is a retired dentist, 73, second time being bp and has only been bp for less than 2 years. They are usually in for 5yrs. He will die in his house. He is fit as a fiddle. Not moving. No, something is awry in TSCC. Will post when I know.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2017 06:26PM by cutekitty.

Sounds like he is going to high counsel or something. At that age, they maybe would go ahead and move him up and not wait 5 years. Maybe he has a special mission or is going to be a Mission President. Sounds like he has a few more years available for the church to suck out of his life. :-)

Maybe he finally scored big selling Amway?

But hopefully you were able to help free him free him from the flaxen cords that were leading him carefully down to Hell.

Ok. Never heard of this before at TSCC! Bishop released today, no new one called. All wards meet at the stake house nxt sun at 11am to find out new ward boundaries! This is alot of sheeple! My TBM dear friend, who is in her 80's and was in charge of the family hist.ctr.,said everyone was told to turn in all the keys for the buildings and various locks. The Sheeple have no leader!!! What will they do? They have shut down the church till next sunday if nobody has keys to get in??? Wow. Any insight?

>All wards meet at the stake house nxt sun at 11am to find out new ward boundaries!

Sounds to me like they are consolidating wards.

Right. Maybe just re-organization. First counselor of the ward will fill in during transition.

Sounds right. Declining population. The rich ward of the stake just split in two last year. Gotta have so many tithe payers in each ward.

Jesus was Jewish, so would have been familiar with it, or whoever actually wrote about it in the Biblical text.

Yeah, have to agree with the others. Wouldn't count that chicken yet. Especially as he's 73 years old.

CuteKitty wrote: "Should I feel bad? I feel bad being duped for 40 years of my life, living a lie. Why be good or nice or be of service to others?"

I just have to say, that teaching children lies, recruiting new members, cleaning buildings for a corporation, paying tithing to line the pockets of the corporation, forcing children and the elderly to go on missions and shunning those who disagree with the cult--is not "being good or nice or of service to others! Mormons are only in the service of their real estate corporation. It's sad, because the members don't get anything back from it--no love, no appreciation, no uplifting of the spirit, no financial dividends--nothing!

The cult owes you, not the other way around. You will never get back those 40 years.

You should NOT feel bad! You owe NOTHING to that bishop, or to any other Mormons. The bishop was putting the cult first, and doing his duty. He really didn't care about you, so why should you care about him?

If anything--you did the bishop a favor! An adult human being (and father of a family) needs to know reality, in order to survive on this planet. Not knowing the truth about Mormonism has cost the bishop many thousands of dollars, I'm sure, and wasted time, and time away from his beloved family, and arguments with his wife (It's not easy being a bishop's wife), and who knows what other grief.

If you had anything to do with opening his eyes to the Truth, he should wash your feet in gratitude. Most likely, you will never know. As one GA said, "The Mormon church never apologizes." In my lifetime and my parents' lifetimes, Mormons never thank ex-Mormons. Don't expect to hear any "Thank-you's" for possibly helping rescue an entire family.

I thank you, though, for the sake of goodness and humanity!
(((hugs)))

you are welcome. Thank you in return for your post.

Let's go full on speculation....he was moved up to high council because a stake guy quit over history issues...ill see your bishop and raise you a high councillor...after the one true order of whoppers...Paul Dunn might say...never let the facts ruin a great story

A 73 year old bishop (presumably in good health) was released after two years, and we don't know why. That it?
So the speculation goes on and on and on!

It may have been health related, or family related.

Unless you have an inside track, agree with Susie. It's unfounded speculation.

He may have decided he didn't want the responsibility of running a ward. That's a lot to handle for a younger man, let alone an older guy.

Someone with a debilitating or chronic ailment such as people tend to get age related would be reason enough to resign a calling. I've seen it happen more than a few times when I was active.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2017 04:11PM by Amyjo.

cutekitty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I recently read the
> golden rule is not from Jesus but, the Jewish
> beliefs.

Actually, the "Golden Rule" is found in all the world's religions, in different words-i.e., here are some:

from the Bahá'í Faith to Satanism

"Ethic of Reciprocity" passages from various religions: Bahá'í Faith to Taoism:
•Bahá'í Faith: ◦"Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not."
◦"And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself." Epistle to the Son of the Wolf. 1

•Brahmanism: ◦"This is the sum of Dharma [duty]: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you". Mahabharata, 5:1517 "

•Buddhism: ◦"...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353

◦Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." Udana-Varga 5:18

◦"All men tremble at the rod, all men fear death:
Putting oneself in the place of others, kill not nor cause to kill.
All men tremble at the rod, unto all men life is dear;
Doing as one would be done by, kill not nor cause to kill."

◦"One should seek for others the happiness one desires for oneself."

•Christianity: ◦"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12, King James Version.

◦"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Version.

◦"...and don't do what you hate...", Gospel of Thomas 6. The Gospel of Thomas is one of about 40 gospels that circulated among the early Christian movement, but which never made it into the Christian Scriptures (New Testament).

◦Confucianism: ◾He appears to have been the first person to record the Golden Rule in its negative form. This is sometimes referred to as the "Silver Rule." ◾Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" Doctrine of the Mean
◾“What I do not wish men to do to me, I also wish not to do to men." Analects 15:23

◾What a man dislikes in those who are over him, let him not display toward those who are under him; what he dislikes in those who are under him, let him not display toward those who are over him! This is called the standard, by which, as a measuring square, to regulate one’s conduct. 6

◾"Tse-kung asked, 'Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?' Confucius replied, 'It is the word 'shu' -- reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.'" Doctrine of the Mean 13.3

◾He also expressed the Golden Rule in its positive form: ◾"Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence." Mencius VII.A.4

◦Ancient Egyptian: ◾"Do for one who may do for you, that you may cause him thus to do." The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant, 109 - 110 Translated by R.B. Parkinson. The original dates to circa 1800 BCE and may be the earliest version of the Epic of Reciprocity ever written. 2

◦Hinduism: ◾"This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you." Mahabharata 5:1517

◦The religion of the Incas: ◾"Do not to another what you would not yourself experience." Manco Capoc, founder of the empire of Peru. 6



◦Islam: ◾"None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." Number 13 of Imam "Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths." 3


◾Hadiths are writings by Muhammad. There do not appear to be any verses in the Qur'an that explicitly state the Golden Rule.

◦Jainism: ◾"Therefore, neither does he [a sage] cause violence to others nor does he make others do so." Acarangasutra 5.101-2.

◾"In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self." Lord Mahavira, 24th Tirthankara

◾A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated. "Sutrakritanga 1.11.3

◦Judaism: ◾"...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.", Hebrew Scriptures (a.k.a. Old Testament) Leviticus 19:18

◾"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a.

◾"And what you hate, do not do to any one." Tobit 4:15 4

◦Native American Spirituality: ◾"Respect for all life is the foundation." The Great Law of Peace.

◾ "All things are our relatives; what we do to everything, we do to ourselves. All is really One." Black Elk

◾"Do not wrong or hate your neighbor. For it is not he who you wrong, but yourself." Pima proverb.

◦Roman Pagan Religion: Religio Romana is a modern-day Neo-pagan religion based on the religion of ancient Rome:

◾"The law imprinted on the hearts of all men is to love the members of society as themselves."

◦Satanism: Unlike the names of other religions, the term "Satanism" has many meanings. Some refer to groups that are non-existent. The Satanic Temple has elements of the Golden Rule divided among three of its Seven Tenets: ◾#1. "Strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason."
◾#4. "The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own."
◾#7. "Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word." 5





This list continues in another essay with expressions of the Golden Rule from eight other religions, and from other sources. I'm not going to reprint them all--I'm sure we all get the idea. It's not something that is ONLY Judeo-Christian. :)

I was going to mention this. Thanks for giving so many examples from so many traditions. The Boner.

SATANISM? Really? Why would stan have a motto of be nice to others? I remember thinking stan was mean and evil and wants us to be miserable like unto himself. Why would he have a NICE motto in his religion or way of thinking? Enlighten my mind, please?

Even Satan knows you catch more flies with honey. Actually he probably would have invented that way of thinking if he were real. The old "bait and switch" routine--like the Mormons use now.

The bishop was 73 in the last ward I was in. He only made it two years before calling it quits.

It's kinda shitty what the church does to these old guys. They call them to be bishops. No pay, no perks, nothing.

Then they get guilted because they're younger than the profit and his side kicks, and the profit does a more important job. Well, the bishop could probably do it too if his every need and whim was taken care of for him. He hasn't been pampered and coddled for the last 30 years. He doesn't have a driver and assistants to take care of everything. Sometimes his wife helps out, but they usually want nothing to do with it. They've been churched out by that time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2017 05:05PM by janis.

I couldn't believe when I read here recently that Thomas Monson lives in a 24,000 square ft condo. Mind staggering!

This is why we should have a female prophet. 24,000 square feet could house a lot of cats.

I'm not sure where you got your information, but I don't think there's any condo in the Gateway Condos that is that large.

"My contact in the Utah market that often gives me good property information tells me that unit 8-C is officially listed as over 8,190 sq.ft., but that includes other areas owned in the building that constitute a part of unit 8-C. It's real square footage should be similar to the other "C" unit on the 7th floor, probably somewhere around 2,500 sq.ft."

Yeah, and he gets up every morning and cleans house, cooks for himself, drive to the grocery store, runs errands to the dry cleaners, goes to Costco to save a buck, etc.

He even walks to the bathroom all by himself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2017 06:52PM by janis.

The "Golden Rule" came as a result of Christ's teachings which he derived from his Torah training and upbringing. "The concept occurs in nearly every religion. It has also been known as the "law of reciprocity." (The 'Golden Rule' has become a universal adage today, Christianity aside.)

"The "Golden Rule" was given by Jesus of Nazareth, who used it to summarize the Torah: "Do to others what you want them to do to you. This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets"[31] (Matthew 7:12 NCV, see also Luke 6:31). The common English phrasing is "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". A similar form of the phrase appeared in a Catholic catechism around 1567 (certainly in the reprint of 1583).[32] The Golden Rule is stated positively numerous times in the Hebrew Pentateuch as well as the Prophets and Writings. Leviticus 19:18 ("Forget about the wrong things people do to you, and do not try to get even. Love your neighbor as you love yourself."; see also Great Commandment) and Leviticus 19:34 ("But treat them just as you treat your own citizens. Love foreigners as you love yourselves, because you were foreigners one time in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.").

Preceding the Christian teaching, Christ's teachings were formed from the earliest Judaic teachings. "A rule of altruistic reciprocity was first stated positively in a well-known Torah verse (Hebrew: ואהבת לרעך כמוך‎):

You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your kinsfolk. Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.
— Leviticus 19:18

Hillel the Elder (c. 110 BCE – 10 CE),[23] used this verse as a most important message of the Torah for his teachings. Once, he was challenged by a gentile who asked to be converted under the condition that the Torah be explained to him while he stood on one foot. Hillel accepted him as a candidate for conversion to Judaism but, drawing on Leviticus 19:18, briefed the man:
What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn.
— Shabbath folio:31a, Babylonian Talmud

Hillel recognized brotherly love as the fundamental principle of Jewish ethics. Rabbi Akiva agreed and suggested that the principle of love must have its foundation in Genesis chapter 1, which teaches that all men are the offspring of Adam, who was made in the image of God (Sifra, Ḳedoshim, iv.; Yer. Ned. ix. 41c; Genesis Rabba 24).[24] According to Jewish rabbinic literature, the first man Adam represents the unity of mankind. This is echoed in the modern preamble of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.[25][26] And it is also taught, that Adam is last in order according to the evolutionary character of God's creation:[24]

Why was only a single specimen of man created first? To teach us that he who destroys a single soul destroys a whole world and that he who saves a single soul saves a whole world; furthermore, so no race or class may claim a nobler ancestry, saying, 'Our father was born first'; and, finally, to give testimony to the greatness of the Lord, who caused the wonderful diversity of mankind to emanate from one type. And why was Adam created last of all beings? To teach him humility; for if he be overbearing, let him remember that the little fly preceded him in the order of creation."

(Wikipedia)

Jimminy Crickets, Ohme-ohmy! It's EX-mormon.org. What did you think you'd find?

Two words: Word wall.

I learn something new here everyday! So Monson lives in a 24,000 sq ft condo. Talk about a "great and spacious building"!
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, we have a bishop being released after 2 years. There could be a number of reasons he's being released as other posters have said. Maybe he's feeling his 73 years, or the stake is being re-organized, or maybe the light bulb's clicked on and he sees the light. My husband's co-worker had been called as bishop and 2 months later, he not only quit the calling, but the church as well. He told my husband that he was furious that he had been lied to, but he never did specifically say what lies he had been told, but he must have read the CES Letter or read other things and found out the truth. He didn't want to tell my husband the details because at the time,we were still TBM's.

great and specious

Monson doesn't live in a 24,000 square foot condo. That would be nearly a mile square. There is no condo in downtown Salt Lake that is on the 8th floor and approximately 1 mile square. His condo has been estimated to be 2,500 square feet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2017 06:11PM by Devoted Exmo.

24,000 square feet is only 0.00086 square miles.

There are 5280 feet in a mile so a square mile contains 5280^2 square feet which is 27,878,400 square feet. 24,000 square feet would be a square approximately 155 feet on a side. It is also only 0.55 acres.

That being said, TSM is not likely to live in a 24,000 square foot condo. 2400 is a more likely value.

Thanks for fact checking that.

cutekitty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also believe in karma. I recently read the
> golden rule is not from Jesus but, the Jewish
> beliefs.

Much earlier than that, actually.

Possibly the earliest affirmation of the maxim of reciprocity, reflecting the ancient Egyptian goddess Ma'at, appears in the story of The Eloquent Peasant, which dates to the Middle Kingdom (c. 2040 – c. 1650 BC): "Now this is the command: Do to the doer to make him do." This proverb embodies the do ut des principle. A Late Period (c. 664 BC – 323 BC) papyrus contains an early negative affirmation of the Golden Rule: "That which you hate to be done to you, do not do to another."

The Sanskrit tradition expressed the same concept around 500 BCE (Mahābhārata Shānti-Parva 167:9):
"Hence, (keeping these in mind), by self-control and by making dharma (right conduct) your main focus, treat others as you treat yourself."

The Golden Rule in its prohibitive (negative) form was a common principle in ancient Greek philosophy. Examples of the general concept include:

"Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing." – Thales (c. 624 BC – c. 546 BC)
"Do not do to others that which angers you when they do it to you." – Isocrates (436–338 BC)

It was in no way "original" to Jesus or the Jews :)

I've never heard of a bishop quitting over a discussion with someone leaving his church. If that's the case, good for you. He owes you and I think he'd likely let you know it.

Why release the Bishop one week early? I've never heard of that. They could have waited until next Sunday, and released him when they consolidated and or redid the boundaries. It is very strange that they released him a week before. Not the normal.

Posted by: janis ( ) "Re: My bishop quit today!"

Bishop's don't get paid, but they have stature as a bishop.

Follow up... I texted the bp and he told me he was glad to be released. He said it was the hardest job he has ever had. He and TBM DW are leaving Sat. for a 2 week cruise to Spain with their 5 grown kids and all the grandkids!!! He thanked me for blessing his life when he was my home teacher. We always had lively discussions about the church. Never about what I found. I did not answer the phone last Sunday when he wanted to home teach. He lives in another ward 20 miles from here. Now he is only 5 min to his regular building. He did not say why he was released. When I said he was fit as a fiddle for his age, he runs marathons when he can, and runs several miles, 3 times a week.
Reorganizing the ward boundaries is the plan, but why totally shut down our building? There is a Spanish ward and a YSA branch that also meet there at various times, of course.