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Posted by: ender88 ( )
Date: July 15, 2017 11:45PM

I imagine that this is a story that’s been told time and time again. But after so much reading here and elsewhere, I’m still not sure what to do. I’m sorry for what I’m sure is entirely redundant.

I’m 29. I came out as gay when I was 25. Born and raised Mormon. Bought it hook line and sinker. Mother in Relief Society Presidency, my Father in Stake callings. My younger brother a Ward Clerk at 22. I taught Elder’s Quorum, Primary teacher, Music Teacher, Ward Choir Director, and shortly before leaving I was asked to be a Temple Worker. I had gotten married, she knew I was gay but couldn’t have children. Long story short, I divorced her, case closed years ago.

Family really struggled with my departure. It was always two steps forward, one step back. Two steps forward, three steps back, etc. My mother took it hardest, but she’s coming around. My brother took it next hardest. A lot of therapy regarding coming out, and life-long undiagnosed psychological health disorders followed. Things were getting so much better. Anyway, I digress.

I’m at an impasse I guess. Several weeks ago (6-8?) my brother’s mother in law and I had an online disagreement. And my brother called me afterwards to not only inform me that he was about to have his first child (my first niece/nephew), but that I was unwelcome to meet the child. Unless of course I earned the privilege. The implication was to be mormon again, though he didn’t spell it out. But he threw the church in my face, discounted and discredited anything I had to say, and frankly, I said goodbye to him that night. He pushed me back to the point I had been just prior to therapy, and I attempted suicide that night.

That was the wakeup call to my parents. They realized that they could actually LOSE me, and not simply to estrangement. So they’ve finally come on board. They took my side on this whole thing, but won’t get in the middle. My brother’s inlaws are also his employers, and pay for his housing, and basically have him under their thumb. They’re quite wealthy, and my parents know they’ll be forbidden from contact if they fight back seeing as how we live 3,000 miles away from my brother.

FYI. I’m stable again. But I’m still feeling… lost. Mourning I guess.

I just don’t know how to move forward.

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Posted by: NeverMoJohn ( )
Date: July 16, 2017 01:23AM

I think you should accept that the relationship is over and move on with your life. You are 3000 miles away from him, so physical contact is not likely on any regular basis.

Mourn the loss and make peace with it. Get stronger and healthier for your own survival. Protect yourself and your progress. Block him from contacting you.

There may come a time in the future where he is ready to accept you for you, and you are strong enough deal with him without endangering your health. But if it never comes, you will still be living your life for you, rather than for him, your parents or the Mormon Church.

You need to be the highest priority in your life. You need to start putting yourself and your health first.

I wish you the very best and a healthier and happier future without the oppressive presence of Mormonism in your life.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: July 16, 2017 01:40AM

I feel for you. This is horrible. I would say to avoid anyone who is harming you, no matter the relation. I hope things get better for you.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 16, 2017 02:19AM

Clearly, for the sake of your mental health, you need to take a good, long break from your brother. This break could be 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, or a lifetime. But I wouldn't shut the door entirely just yet. Just realize that he's not currently in a place where you can both have a productive relationship. But this could change over time. Life is long, and people sometimes change.

Mentally, let him go. Send peaceful, brotherly thoughts his way, wishing him a happy life. Then let him go for now.

Use this time to focus on you. Stay in counseling. Look after your nutrition and exercise. Make sure that your career is in order, and what you want it to be, and strive for a work/life balance. If you are not where you want to be career-wise, form a plan for rectifying that. Most of all, work to find more love in your life, including finding a partner. Continue to cultivate a loving relationship with your parents. Take church off the table as a topic of discussion with them. Agree to disagree. Adopt some pets if you are able. The unconditional love of a pet can be very restorative. Work toward building a network of accepting friends. Cultivate hobbies and interests. Take YOU time.

If you are on social media, unfollow your brother for now. Create some healthy space. Take his in-laws off of your lists altogether. They are not important to your life. They are merely bit players in the play that is your life. No reason to pay even the slightest attention to them.

A little emotional distance from people (for however long,) can be a good and healthy thing. Let tomorrow take care of tomorrow. Work on today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2017 02:21AM by summer.

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Posted by: cutekitty ( )
Date: July 16, 2017 02:59AM

ender88: one day at a time. Stay in therapy if that is working for you. You are still a valuable individual. It is good your parents are coming on board. It is also good you are out of the morg. This should be a breath of fresh air for you. Stay busy so you don't have time to lament. Find a like minded person(s)to share your interests with. I am old and can tell you, because you are young still, enjoy life. It is too short to be sad and miserable to waste even a day. Maybe someday your brother will "see the light" and reach out to you asking for your involvement in his life again. It is happening all the time- it takes a light coming on for TBM's to see the error of their ways. Get involved in hobbies or things that make you happy and feel good about yourself.
I was TBM for 40 years and NEVER thought I would be here in this apostate/other side of things. I am alone in the world now, as my family is dead and my friends went with the church. I am slowly finding things to do besides read ex-mo stuff. I have animals, a garden, and a side job to keep me busy, which I had while IN the morg., but I appreciate more now to occupy my time.
Take care and best wishes sent your way!

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Posted by: Sammi ( )
Date: July 16, 2017 03:36AM

Hi, ender88, I'm sorry for all suffering you've been through with this.

When I hear (read) your story, I feel the pain. My own brother also shuns me and others in my family that left the religion he subscribes to. (Not mormonism but JW) Also to the point of zero contact with "his" family, our niece and nephew.

There is also a financial element or layer added to it as he had somewhat faded from the religion but then went back to it full throttle in order to garner support from our bio father as our father now ages and likely will only support whoever bows to the men leading a real estate corporation masquerading as the one true religion here on earth.

Some people cling to religion (or whatever dogmatic belief) like an alcoholic clings to a bottle.

Barring winning the lotto, which is about the only thing I believe would grab the attention of my jw family members, the only thing I can do is remember that my own journey out of being born into what i now consider a complete hoax, took a while so it's only fair to allow others the freedom to live and learn and discover logic and love and make decisions at their own pace too.

I also think of the phrase, "a life well-lived is the best revenge".

Your life is so precious and fragile but also capable of great healing and resilience. I hope you will decide to be gentle with yourself and continue to be the healthiest version of you that you can. Take it one minute at a time if necessary. That's all we have any control over anyway: our own domain, for this next minute. The mathematical odds that you were even born are astronomical. Your existence is simply wonderful.

I hope you will keep learning all you can about life beyond the undue influence and rape of your spirit by slaves to a power game concept). Much can subtly shift with the sands of time. Minute by minute dare to live; and love.

I'm picturing some positive adventures and new memories to build with others. Keep practising love and let life surprise you with how things evolve and what you may accomplish until such time as your brother decides he needs and values someone other than the hand that feeds him. You can be love. There are eight billion people on this planet in need of that.

I hope you will start practising loving and protecting your own life to the point that this love and protection naturally spills over to everyone you love. Love is not a feeling. It can cause us to feel a variety of our emotions but it is not a feeling. Love is a verb, an action word. Loving. To love. All denote action.

I hope you will keep being creative where possible. That's beautiful, inspiring and powerful.

We have every one of our emotions for good reason. Even the uncomfortable ones. Each emotion, if we will embrace it, brings a gift. That said, our emotions are powerful but can be weighty when held in or habitually run away from. Keep talking them out and expressing them creatively so they don't weigh you down with their weight, to the point of depression, ok?

It's ok not to have all the answers. I don't either. Big hug for you my fellow human being. We are human beings, not human doings. So Just BE. The answers will come when the time is right. Live your way into the answers. Xoxo

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Posted by: Sammi ( )
Date: July 16, 2017 03:57AM

Maybe just look at it as you identify as gay and he identifies as a religious minion? (Haha attempt at humour).

Also, I'm curious if you ever plan on having or raising kids or a family of your own (down the road after you get your legs under you so to speak) or whether you prefer the single or childless life.

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Posted by: gimp ( )
Date: July 16, 2017 11:24AM

No one's story and pain are redundant. The recurring themes belong to the evil that is TSCC.

How to move forward? That's it, and where it begins... Keep.Moving. Don't let the anyone with the LDS disease stand in your way or pour their filthy toxic tar onto your path. Toxic is toxic, however they might be genetically connected to you.

It takes time and work to develop antitoxin prevention and remedies. You describe an event when you allowed a toxin to nearly take your life. That toxin (aka brother) has made the choice to be toxic to you. You can't control his choices, but it is possible to control your own.

I'm not one who will put my life or emotions on hold waiting and hoping for someone to change. That doesn't touch on reality for me. You are correct; you are mourning a loss, and it will get better. If your toxic brother ever cleans up his mental mess, you then can decide if you can trust him, but for now, he has shown himself to be untrustworthy.

You must develop an independent resistance to the toxins you still allow into your life. EXPECT toxicity, brace for it, don't expect it to be non-toxic.

Think of it this way - they are members of a toxic cult, and there is no way that they can free themselves of that filth, except to leave. If and when you go within the sound of their voices, you must be wearing your own bio-hazard suit and oxygen supply. You never know what contaminants will spill onto you. They will mention your toxic brother, talk about the birth, the toxic rituals to which that that poor, innocent child has been subjected. It is all emotional acid, with the capacity to burn you.

It would be unnatural for them to try to avoid such talk. You can request that they do so, but it is not within your power (or rights) to try to control them. If you choose to be around them, you own the consequences, so, suit up for toxic.

On a personal note, the beauty that was my partner was shunned, BP, and took his own life. The toxins kept living their lives as if nothing had happened, except for the pity parties they scored, whilst bragging of "how hard they tried" to "help" him. NOT. Not unless one translates "help" as "shun."

Sammi's post rings true. I think my partner never learned to love himself without their approval. I think he could not feel his own beauty, could not embrace the fullness of life separate from them. In the many years since, I've come to accept that a part of that was the mental illness, BP that went from black immobility to hallucinations. They never had him diagnosed or treated, because that would spoil the (false) image. Neglect of a dependent that should have been prosecuted, IMO.

He never had that justice, never any resolution that he was not at fault for being who he was born to be. He never learned to love himself.

Please read Sammi's post again and ask yourself if it's possible that you are only pretending to love yourself? It's what mentally healthy people do...? You might be fooling everyone else, but you can only fool yourself for so long.

Acknowledge and excise the toxins that you are able, keep moving, and learn to love yourself. Allowing the poison in may make it more difficult, but understand that their words are all about them and never -NEVER - about you as an individual.

Sorry this was so long. I think some of it may be things I never got to say to my partner, because back then, there was so much I didn't understand.

Keep reading, keep posting. ;) Keep being "redundant." It is the redundancy of the pain they inflict that lets us know that it is them inflicting the same wounds to all whom they touch. It is not us, and none of us are alone.

Peace and love to you.

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Posted by: deja vue ( )
Date: July 16, 2017 12:24PM

^^^^^^^^^ Great post and reply ! ^^^^^^^

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Posted by: story100 ( )
Date: July 16, 2017 12:30PM

Thank you so much for sharing your story with such candor. I hope your brother comes around some day, but would echo the sentiment that you should mourn and move on. He is the one with the problem, not you.

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Posted by: ender88 ( )
Date: July 16, 2017 11:18PM

I am so truly humbled by the outpour of love that I've received from this thread. Honestly, remnants of the Mormon facade still shrouded my perception of this community, and I was terribly afraid of any response. But I've been proven wrong, and I'm truly grateful.

What's interesting is that so many of you have touched upon so many subtle marks of my life. The great multitude of which I never even alluded to.

Spiritual rape for example. Quite right in that regard. If only it weren't just a metaphysical reference, and not an accidental reference to actual occurrences in my adult life.

And involvement in art, and focus on my career. Ironically I'm only 29, yet own my own business, and my peers in my industry are all in their twilight years: 70+ years old in age, and either retired, or dying. I work in classical music. Instrument making, and a very specific instrument to be precise. I'm only 29, and yet a multi-billion dollar industry is watching my every move because I've found such solace and healing in my art over the past 4 years that I've changed the foundation of the entire industry. At conferences, major figures in my industry feel compelled to introduce themselves to ME, instead of the other way around. Weird.

A life well lived. And actually loving myself.... That is a work in progress according to my therapist. I have a boyfriend, partner so to speak. I have friends. I get out, have fun. I enjoy my life. My therapist has me in a 'maintenance' cycle where I attempt 3-6 months between appointments. I'm about to schedule another appointment, the first since this incident.

So much of my life has become well balanced. Well insulated. My brother merely cut through years of work in the span of minutes. He reduced me back to the lonely crumpled figure that couldn't envision moving forward at all, clutching a piece of metal that appeared to be sharp. But thankfully, I'd reconstructed enough that my mentality was rather elastic. After a brief moment of insanity, I came to rationality, and agreed. He's not worth it. Distance is needed. No one is worth harming myself. And gratefully, the metal was too dull to cause permanent harm.

It still hurts. I still have doubts. But I've come to recognize those who truly love ME. My best friend, roommate, and colleague. She loves me unconditionally. A few of my extended family members: aunts, genetic or by marriage, great-aunts, and cousins. They've seen the evils of mormonism since day one and have watched me struggle my entire life. And they've embraced and shown untold amounts of love and compassion recently.

My last remaining grandfather passed in January. His memorial was in March. When it came down to it, no one besides immediate aunts/uncles/1st cousins knew who I was. But even 4th cousins knew who my brother was. My parents had evidently been ashamed. So my two great aunts, one in her 50's, an episcopal priestess, and one in her 80's, took me around and introduced me to everyone as the eldest grandchild that no one had ever heard of.

I'm sorry that I'm rambling. It's just a lot of hurt. But progress is being made. I'm mourning. I've been wounded recently. But I do have people that love and support me. I just have very few who truly understand what I've been through.

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Posted by: moehoward ( )
Date: July 17, 2017 12:39PM

I'm sitting here in an airport waiting for my flight with my wife. I stared at the post and its responses for 10 min. Wow, memories flooding back. I had to take a quick walk around the airport and relax before typing. My niece is is 41 now I haven't seen her since she was 10. My only crime, I wasn't mormon anymore. The part that hurts the most is that my mother never saw her grandchild again.

Hang in there, the pain never leaves but it gets easier over time. Fortunately for both of us, there are good people out there.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: July 17, 2017 12:58PM

over family issues. I helped raise her kids. They were with me a lot of the time. My one and only niece lived with me when she couldn't get along with her mother. Since all this happened, I have not seen her kids or had much to do with them, although they never got along with their mother. My sister basically stole from my disabled brother's trust and we had to fight her to get the rest of the money before it was all gone, but we're the bad guys.

The hardest part is my relationships with her children.

My daughter and I have struggled with our relationship since she went back to being a mormon. I raised them as a single mother from the time they were 10 and sacrificed a lot for them, but because I'm not mormon, she has chosen other mormon women to be her "surrogate" mothers.

It does cause UNTOLD PAIN and heartbreak.

My ex is gay. We went through some horrible times. The thing that helped us the most is when I finally accepted him 100% as gay. The church stood in the way for a long time. I was supposed to save him. Well, I feel I did, just not in the way they anticipated. It was this issue that drove me out of the church. I see the value in my ex. I see that he is a great person and that asking for him to lose the gay would mean he disappears, which would be tragic.

It sounds to me like you had a PTSD trigger from what your brother did. I have them happen too often and I really don't know what just hit me when they do. It takes me time to figure it out.

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