No surprises with this article on church demographics. If it weren't for BYU in Provo (Utah County) I wonder if the trend would be similar to Salt Lake County?

BYU is another powerful indoctrination tool and I would guess the $200+ million per year in costs to run the university (thanks to tithes from the Canadian saints) pays off in spades.

Temples, universities, real estate, banks, etc. - the plan, according to mischievous ole' Joe, was to create God's Zion on earth - a fully self-contained and self-serving state-religion that would eventually secede from the US and become a theocracy/sovereign nation-state much like the Vatican. BY carried the same grand vision out here to Utah.

Does anyone have any links to the research on Sidney Rigdon's (I think it was Sidney and possibly others) trip to Mexico and the south western US in search of lands to buy for this great Zion they wanted to establish? I'm a little fuzzy on the details.

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/5403049-155/salt-lake-county-is-becoming-less

No link on lands for Zion, just an observation from Happy Valley.

Numbers don't tell the whole story. Utah County has yet another Starbucks, this one in north Orem, and more coffee shops are popping up all over. I see plenty of people roaming around in sleeveless tops, sporting body ink, going to movies and shopping on Sunday, and lining up at the state liquor stores. There are also a decent number of never-Mos moving here for tech jobs, although not as many as in SL County.

The article says Utah County is 84% Mormon; that would include BYU and the MTC, which might skew the numbers. Judging by what I see and the number of people I know who've quietly stopped attending church, it seems a lot less Mormon than five or ten years ago.

I visit Utah County for about a week at least twice a year and I too think there is some evidence that the Mormon influence has lessened somewhat over the last 10 years or so. On Sunday's Costco in Orem doesn't have the crowds that they have on Saturday's, but it's still pretty busy on Sunday. And there seems to be more businesses open on Sundays than there used to be in the past.

So there is a God.

Happiness is seeing Utah County in the rear-view mirror.

Where it shall ever remain for me now.

I went to BYU for 4 years, plus another year of working and putting my temple wife-beater husband through BYU.

I traveled to Provo, after being away for many years--after living another life in California, getting married again, and giving birth and raising children--for a funeral. I flew into SLC, by myself, and rented a car to drive to Provo. I was approaching Provo, and was stopped in heavy traffic (there was a MERGE ahead, and Utahns can't merge), when I began getting a hysterical anxiety attack. I had to pull off the road, and do yoga breathing exercises, and give myself a mental pep-talk. I got through the funeral, but felt very ill the whole day. I made excuses with the relatives, and drove up to Midway, and stayed the night there, just to be away from Provo.

My children didn't know anything about this, but we live in SLC, now, and they refuse to go to Provo or to BYU, because the place gives them "a creepy feeling." I have old BYU friends here in SLC, and we meet our Provo friends in Park City, usually, or Sundance, or Midway, or the Provo friends come up to SLC.

I wonder how many here on RFM think the Provo Tabernacle burned down by accident? I think it was the cult's intention to make downtown Provo into another Temple Square-type mecca. Maybe the more popular, accepting UVU is taking too much attention away from snobby BYU and the MTC. As for the town, I know that Provo High is a nightmare.

I hate Utah county. Provo is particularly crime ridden. What's the deal with all the MLM.companies based out there? A lot of things I don't like...

And yet, I would rather burn my hair and slit my wrists than ever go back to Provo. I will never return to BYU campus, no matter which grandkids may graduate from there.

If god was going to give the earth an enema, that is the place where he would do it.

Whoa, whoa... I thought that was East St. Louis.

And I had always heard it was Bakersfield.

Bakersfield is close. Mighty close. Bakersfield can be the anal fistula to East St. Louis, with Utah County being a carbuncle on the butt.

The anti-Mormons who don't believe that the Brethren told the truth about Zion, Second Coming, and many other glorious matters, will probably scoff at the idea I present here. But the doctrine is clear that the primary place from Salt Lake County where the Saints are going to go very soon (which started being emphasized over just 17 decades ago) is to Jackson County. Missouri in order to build up the New Jerusalem so Christ can reign on the earth during the Millennium. So maybe for a very short period of time the Saints may go to Utah County. But the beloved doctrine's credibility is destroyed for good if we don't start soon going to Jackson County in huge numbers after that place (along with others like NYC and Boston) has been cleared of the wicked. As soon as I hear that those wicked places are getting destroyed then I'm going to lookup some one-way moving van rental rates. I'll also schedule an appointment with the Ward Bishop to make sure I've brought to his attention all my transgressions so my records can be properly annotated so that Ward Councils in the future can better micromanage my family life.

You don't get to drive. You must walk.

On what basis do you make your "walk to Zion" claim? I certainly don't want to take the glorious gospel out-of-context :)


Could it be some assumption regarding a sacred prophecy that Wilford Woodruff received in 1878?

"I saw the whole states of Illinois and Missouri and part of Iowa, a complete wilderness of desert with no living human being there."

See page 223 of Duane Crowther's "Prophecy, Key to the Future" for this sacred prophecy of Woodruff. Of course we know, all except the unbelievers, that what Woodruff said is the unchanging eternal word of God :) I think this link works.

https://books.google.com/books?id=9VEq8hDWcOsC&pg=PA223&lpg=PA223&dq=yellow+dog+jackson+county+kimball&source=bl&ots=BW-1fed1C-&sig=-t3lAuHhJpgkKN5LQEYFHiqWAig&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwju3pmDl97UAhWIQSYKHcs-CQoQ6AEIODAD#v=onepage&q=yellow%20dog%20jackson%20county%20kimball&f=false

In fact the entire Duane Crowther "Prophecy, Key to the Future" book is full of some of the most wondrous things that the missionaries get to answer questions/concerns about for the rest of the future Church history :) Every time the big 15 on the Ensign centerfold open their mouths is an opportunity to prove how consistent, unchanging, and true the Almighty's sacred doctrines happen to be :) It also is an amazing opportunity to show everyone how normal Mormonism is and how much sense it all makes :)

Well I suppose that if those States are wiped clean of people then there won't be any place to drop off the moving truck so we'll have to walk :(

Too bad that with the changing demographics, they don't seem to be getting much diversity in the political realms. And as long as the state politicians have to go whatever way the LDS winds are blowing, not much will ever change.

MLM's thrive in Utah county thanks to the dearth of gullible individuals that stay home and want some "side money" and as such are willing to be 'that person' and hound everyone they know to buy their overpriced garbage. In addition to this welcoming environment, Orrin Hatch has protected the state at the federal level from scrutiny. Basically nutritional supplements don't require FDA approval so they can claim whatever they want. Couple that with Utah laws not requiring any kind of scrutiny before these things are launched to market you have a pretty lucrative business model.
So why would Hatch support this odious business? Well... the NY Times did a great expose and it comes down to whom his biggest donors are (surprise surprise) and the fact he has close family ties to MLM's. Bought and paid for.

I think you meant to say plethora instead of dearth.

Concur.

Despite growing up in CA, at least 6 of my LDS friends from high school have ended up in Utah County. What creeps me out about the Mormons there is that they have/develop a very Stepford Wife sameness and fakeness. More so than in Salt Lake County, much more so than outside of Utah. Maybe it's just the Mormons I knew but the ones who ended up places like Bountiful and Sugarhouse, tend to have more common sense then those who ended up in Eagle Mountain or Orem or places like that.