I had an interesting lunch discussion on Friday, with four other people, ranging in ages from about age 30-44.

The youngest is mostly TBM, but has some concerns. The other three people have pretty much decided the Church is not true. They each attend to keep peace in their families, especially their wives.

All but one of them said there is no way they could have the type of discussion we were having with their wives. Their wives would not be receptive and would be downright hostile.

One guy even said his wife told him she could have married better prospects (my words, but the gist of what he said), but she chose him because he was an active RM.

I can't think of another Christian religion that creates so many potential marital and family problems for those who are less believing. Are there any?

Nope. One marries tscc, not one another. For ALL the wrong reasons. Destructive.

The Jehovah's Witnesses come to mind. It's another high-control group that tries to hold the family hostage. Other groups such as the Amish promote shunning of those who leave. You don't see it among the majority of Catholics or mainstream Protestants, but I can't speak as to how the evangelicals or fundies handle things.

Virtually every Catholic that I've run across has had zero problem with me leaving the church. The most common reaction has been, "I understand." Catholics are well aware of the problems that go along with their faith and tend to be tolerant of people who make another choice. You get a few fanatics, but you get that with every faith.

I was raised in a mixed Catholic/Protestant household where family always, always came first.

Scientologists are worse.

So basically, worse cults are more extreme in the way they handle apostasy.

We could probably gauge the severity of a cult by its intrusion into personal and family relationships, on a 1-10 scale.

I tried thinking about that for about a second, and immediately became lost as to what a "low-level" intrusion might be, a "level one."

No such thing, or too black and white to say, "Screw with my family, you screw with me."

And from never-never land comes the question, if I had to choose, life or death, would I rather another man screw with my wife's mind or her body?

And to violate all taboo, what about my kids? A: No wonder we cling to taboo, places we cannot go without darkness, true evil, coming in.

Our laws do not protect the brains of our children, but go near their genitalia...

I'm a survivor of abuse, and know the long-lasting effects of both. Please forgive my "taboo" violations, but if kids' minds, even those of future wives, were reared in healthy ways, talking openly to those wives would not be threatening to them. Their genitalia would belong to them, not a cult.

From birth. Born In the Cult.

There are other corporations that mess with families, and they are all cults. I'm growing a dislike for the "cult-lite" term and thinking, because to brainwash, to control, is damaging. There is no such thing as a "low-level threat" to separate one from one's family, driving walls between open lines of communication, forcing families, spouses, to dodge emotional IEDs, inhibiting natural growth between people.

To avoid those threats, there is compliance for those whom no longer wish to comply. There is "spouse-lite," but never "cult-lite."


Sorry for the twisty path on this one.

Yes, there are others. That doesn't mean the TSCC isn't destructive.

I have a friend who is JW. He and his wife were once told by their pediatrician that they had to make a choice between their child's life or their religion (the child needed a blood transfusion, which the JW's didn't permit due to the kosher law against eating blood)---they let the child die.

Needless to say, that's a whole lot of sunk cost to let go of if you decide later that your religion is false after all.

I guess that wouldn't be so different from Mormon parents who were not there for their kids due to callings, or whose rm came back with life-threatening parasites or even died in the field.

One of the shockers to me is that any parent would feel honored to have their precious child go off on a mission when the kids in some missions areas are not protected, nor their health protected. Routine sacrificial giving that risks future and health? WOW.

Organized religions

Mostly, cults. That's one of the definitions of a "cult", as opposed to a "religion."

I know of many mixed-religion marriages, and there is no divisiveness in the family, no manipulations, no behind-the-back trying to brainwash children and grandchildren and nieces and nephews. Other religions don't try to usurp the role of parent in children's lives, the way Mormonism does. Huge difference.

Almost all of the Protestant couples I know, have changed religions several times. They will move into a new area, and like another church better. They will switch churches because of new, better youth programs, or if they have better friends in another church, or if the meetings are at more convenient times, or if they find another pastor they like better. All these reasons are valid, and it is no big deal.

The Christians I know would think it was stupid to attend meetings in a different building, away from their own relatives and friends, just because someone gave them orders that they had to. They love to sit by their friends in meetings. They have coffee and mingle afterwards. "Normal" Christian churches bring people and families together, not split them apart, as cults do.

The motto of a cult is "divide and conquer." The Mormons tried very hard to do that to me and my children, and they did not succeed. Their lies and trickery, bullying, threats and abuse made our lives miserable! I know Christian religions do not resort to these tactics. (Catholics try, but in a much milder way, and their rules can be worked around, for a small fee--much smaller fee than 10% of your income, for life.) Scientology, JW, Amish are cults.