Too long to put in the thread title. The question is this: why do the LDS leaders think that supporting gay rights is contrary to the will of God?

They are really big on the 'traditional' family of man, wife and lots and lots of children to bring in mega tithing dollars.

I accompanied my friend to YSA just to see what the LDS church was like. I attended the munch and mingle after the third hour and one of the females was helping put away chairs and said to another male who was also putting away chairs and tables: "Isn't this your job?"

All I had to say in my mind was: I am glad I was not born into an LDS family.

Because if you can't control who someone loves, you might not be able to control them in every other "exact obedience" aspect of their lives. God's will has got nuthin' to do with it.


Plus, 2 men holding hands in Temple Square throws off the whole idealistic 1950's throwback vibe....

What Greyfort said. Just follow the money trail.

When you found the god that hates all the same people you do.

What happens to the entire model of male dominance in marriages if they do accept it?

What? There is no need for a boss man in a successful, happy and healthy relationship?

Male dominance is an illusion essential to this cult for controlling members; it's revered as a (false) reward for being a member.

It's an illusion because the "controlled" member can (and does) remove that control at any point. What happens if masses wake up to the -fact- that relationships with a more balanced power structure are healthier, thus happier?

The governing body will never relinquish one iota of power. They are highly dependent on this particular illusion, and don't care, can't afford to care, that the policies kill. "Better them than us," would be the self-serving thinking behind their amoral behavior.

I don't even know that it has to do with hate. It has to do with fear, selfishness and an utterly pathetic dependance on other people's time and money.

Savannah said, in effect, "The emporor is naked, and really, really ugly."

They proved her right.

Because they can't be right unless someone else is wrong. The primate male dominance heirarchy must be maintained even though we're not really talking monkeys.

They are WAY into defining gender roles, right down to controlling rules about genitals.

As said above, the ultimate reason is to keep the status quo of males in charge and women breeding.

These are the statements by the LDS Church that make their position clear.

The LDS Church has drawn a line in the sand with this statement of their doctrine which was published in 1995.


"ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

Goes on to make their doctrine clear that men and women are to produce eternal families...etc...

Complete statement here:
https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng&old=true

They have an additional statement in 2016 on their current policy re: "same sex marriage" which became legal in all 50 states June of 2015.


"Same-sex attraction refers to emotional, physical, or sexual attraction to a person of the same gender. The experience of same-sex attraction is not the same for everyone. Some people may feel exclusively attracted to the same gender, while others may feel attracted to both genders.

The Church distinguishes between same-sex attraction and homosexual behavior. People who experience same-sex attraction or identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual can make and keep covenants with God and fully and worthily participate in the Church. Identifying as gay, lesbian, or bisexual or experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin and does not prohibit one from participating in the Church, holding callings, or attending the temple."
(NOTE: didn't they claim it was a sin at one time? Or was it only a sin when engaging in certain behaviors?)

Rest here: https://www.lds.org/topics/same-sex-attraction?lang=eng

(This statement was last updated: 9-1-2016)

There are changes to their Church Handbook also.

They go on to excommunicate many couples. They also refuse to allow their children of these unions to be members until they are 18.

More info on policy and handbook changes here:

Excerp:Revealed doctrine is clear that families are eternal in nature and purpose. We are obligated to act with that perspective for the welfare of both adults and children. The newly added Handbook provisions affirm that adults who choose to enter into a same-gender marriage or similar relationship commit sin that warrants a Church disciplinary council.

Our concern with respect to children is their current and future well-being and the harmony of their home environment. The provisions of Handbook 1, Section 16.13, that restrict priesthood ordinances for minors, apply only to those children whose primary residence is with a couple living in a same-gender marriage or similar relationship. As always, local leaders may request further guidance in particular instances when they have questions.
https://www.lds.org/pages/church-handbook-changes?lang=eng



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2017 02:54PM by SusieQ#1.

Gotta love that revealed doctrine. Which revealed doctrine are we talking about? Polygamy? The BoA? Masonic ceremonies? Flaming swords? Wooden submarines?

Joe made the sealing ceremony the pinnacle of Mormon doctrine. The whole point of life in the belief system is to find a spouse and prepare to have endless children with that person(s). The strict need for multiple sealings allowed Joe to build supporters of his polygamy, err adultery, among his inner circle.

The Mormon church may have been able to drop the 'multiple' requirement for celestial glory, but there's nothing else to take away. They'd have to fundamentally redefine the purpose of life if becoming child-bearing gods isn't the goal anymore.

My point is, it's not that they don't want to support gay rights. They can't. They don't know how they can without crashing the entire system.

Mormonism, as well as other cults, needs to have an enemy to scapegoat its own problems. Initially, it was the mobs attacking the Saints (never mind that the Saints weren't exactly good neighbors). Then it was the US Government trying to undue polygamy.

In the early part of the 20th Century, the Morg didn't have a specific enemy (church attendance and adherence to doctrine started slipping). In the 1950s, the enemy became communism.

Then, as the Civil Rights movement gained momentum, the enemy became the blacks and the quest for Civil Rights. Now that blacks have become part of the fabric of American society and have received the rights to the LDS priesthood, another group must become the enemy.

This is the pattern--a controlling cult, objectification of a certain group as an enemy, then the scapegoating of the cult's problems on to the group.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2017 05:43PM by BYU Boner.

Power corrupts absolute power corrupts absolutely...

The Bible is very clear on homosexuality,so I'd attribute part of it to that. Then there is what Mormonism is about (50's style structure) with Doctrine to follow...

The Bible is also clear about many other things that TSCC (and other churches) conveniently choose to ignore. They must really be afraid of gays.

The thinking had already been done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2017 10:29PM by Cpete.

It could affect their cash flow!

It is very hard for them to admit that their predecessors were wrong. I can think of a few reasons for this, but it's possible they don't consciously think about it in this way.

1) These ideas about homosexuality have been taught to them all their life by people they respected as prophets, seers, and revelators. The society at large held similar kinds of assumptions as well. It's just hard to undo that kind of conditioning when you are 75 years old. From their point of view it could be like all of the sudden people started believing 2+2 = 5 . This doesn't mean we should give them a pass--I said it was hard to change your mind--not impossible.

2) When they make a major shift it causes major cognitive dissonance for the members. Sometimes this kind of shift is necessary like it was in 1890 on polygamy, or 1978 on race and the priesthood. But they don't take it lightly.

Traditional members start to think the Brethren can't hold to the iron rod, and are falling into apostasy. A few might even form splinter groups holding to the old doctrine.

At the same time more liberal members can start to wonder what they need the "prophets" for anyway. After all society as a whole, especially the best informed segments of it, seem to be moving ahead of the prophets. The prophets appear to be a bunch of old curmudgeons, who are dragging their feet. It also becomes difficult to defend the actions of the previous prophets. This can be a crack that eventually causes a fragile Mormon's testimony to shatter.

3) Mormons have become part of a powerful political and social coalition that is dedicated to preserving the family, and "traditional values" against threats that are perceived rather than real. They collectively moan about the alleged loss of "religious freedom" that they will experience if they are required to treat people equally and fairly, or shop at stores that say "happy holidays." If the Mormons change course on this issue, their friends on these issues may take a dim view of them as turncoats.