I find there is a lot of misunderstanding on what the policy/doctrine is regarding homosexuality/same sex marriage in the LDS Church. Notice the distinction between: same sex attraction and behavior.

To set the record straight: This is from a current statement on their web site:

"Same-sex attraction refers to emotional, physical, or sexual attraction to a person of the same gender. The experience of same-sex attraction is not the same for everyone. Some people may feel exclusively attracted to the same gender, while others may feel attracted to both genders.

The Church distinguishes between same-sex attraction and homosexual behavior. People who experience same-sex attraction or identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual can make and keep covenants with God and fully and worthily participate in the Church. Identifying as gay, lesbian, or bisexual or experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin and does not prohibit one from participating in the Church, holding callings, or attending the temple."
(NOTE: didn't they claim it was a sin at one time? Or was it only a sin when engaging in certain behaviors?)

Rest here: https://www.lds.org/topics/same-sex-attraction?lang=eng

(This statement was last updated: 9-1-2016)

Same Sex Marriage became legal in all states in the US on June 26, 2015, by Supreme Court Ruling -- a date many very well. It's my conclusion that this web page is an answer to the new law.

Some background, drawing the line in the sand per LDS doctrine/policy.

"The Family: A Proclamation To The World" (Sept 23, 1995)
The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

First two paragraphs:
"WE, THE FIRST PRESIDENCY and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose...."

The rest here. Notice the Warning!

https://www.lds.org/topics/family-proclamation?lang=eng&old=true

My question is: What about Savanna? What's next? It's a big topic everywhere. Opinions are all over the place.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2017 02:37PM by SusieQ#1.

It's interesting that Savannah's "testimony" talk didn't violate any church doctrine, and was in total agreement with the church's stated policies.

Yet she was cut off and told to shut up and sit down.

How about that.

I have no idea what's next. I suspect (if she hasn't already), she'll get a good talking-to from her bishop and/or SP. They'll tell her how much they love and appreciate her, and then tell her she doesn't know what/who she's attracted to, that she needs to be "cured," and she can't talk about these sort of things in church. If she points out the church's official policy, and how she's fully in line with it, they'll probably get upset and angry.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

"It's interesting that Savannah's "testimony" talk didn't violate any church doctrine, and was in total agreement with the church's stated policies."

Well, not really. I don't remember her exact wording, but Savannah did say something about hoping to go on dates one day and get married. Although from what I remember, she doesn't specifically say that she wants to do those things with someone of the same gender. But given the subject of her testimony, I think it's pretty well implied. And, of course, Church policy doesn't allow for that.

Regardless, how she was treated was terrible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2017 11:11PM by want2bx.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's interesting that Savannah's "testimony" talk
> didn't violate any church doctrine, and was in
> total agreement with the church's stated
> policies.
>
> Yet she was cut off and told to shut up and sit
> down.

That's what can happen when local units are run by untrained amateurs who are more concerned with maintaining order and cash flow than with thoughtful, compassionate stewardship.

Do any of you recall a time, some years ago, when it was reported that LDS members (male) in the San Francisco area were "coming out" in church meetings as gay? I'm sure I read something about it. Testimony meeting, maybe?

And yes. Savanna did not break any of the LDS policy or doctrine. She is a minor, so we'll see what happens next.

The LDS Church knows there are gays in their congregations. There was a short lived TV show documentary awhile back of couples married to gay men. Anyone see that one?

about a ward in San Francisco where the bishop was trying hard to help the gays in his ward and also to deal with church policy. I think there were gays who came out in his ward. It's been a long time ago, so I'm not sure of the whole story.

The documentary was probably the one on TLC. I think they only had one program and I did watch it. I wasn't going to. I thought that it would be that the men were being "perfect" and that things were going well. They weren't. One of the husbands had "slumber parties" with his gay friends and went camping. All of the men in the story had cheated on their wives at some time.

I can't speak for all gays, but all the friends of my ex who are gay (all from Rexburg, Idaho) cheated or cheat on their wives. Two are still married. One wife said, "There will be no divorce." They don't have much of a relationship. They put on a good show. The other one, he cheats ALL THE TIME. His wife stays. He preaches to my ex sometimes and can't believe he would resign from the church.

It is a tossup. I do know several men who are in their 70s or 80s who are married. One I worked with did cheat on his wife and felt very guilty about it. One was my neighbor when I was growing up. He is in his 80s. I'd be surprised if he cheated on his wife. She died 30 years ago and he is still living. I think there are many more than we can even imagine, married gay men to women in the lds church. I've said before that my gay cousin, who is about 50, just married a woman for the second time.

Aren't gays who are open about it within the Mormon church still routinely denied certain callings that involve working with youth? (...as if they are somehow more dangerous than heterosexuals in these callings.)

I can't stand the term, "same sex attraction." To me the term is an indicator of homophobia. Perhaps we should start calling heterosexuals, "opposite sex attracted" or "different sex attracted," and see how church authorities like *that*.

summer



I was confused until I read this policy that I quoted above:

"The Church distinguishes between same-sex attraction and homosexual behavior. People who experience same-sex attraction or identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual can make and keep covenants with God and fully and worthily participate in the Church. Identifying as gay, lesbian, or bisexual or experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin and does not prohibit one from participating in the Church, holding callings, or attending the temple."

I had no idea this was the current policy. I do wonder if the LDS Bishops and Stake Presidencies know it is!
My best guess is that the local leaderships do not give any "calling" or give a temple recommend to anyone that has "come out" as gay, lesbian,etc. But the catch is...they can identify as such, but not practice .. in other words they cannot have a partner .. as engaging in the "homosexual" behavior is the sin.
I think I have that right according to their policy and doctrine! ARGH... really quite ridiculous!

I am convinced that there are many "gay" men who are married to women in the temple and have families. IF they "came out" only a few know, maybe the wife who might not care.

Oh boy. What a mess.

I am also convinced that TBM's in general are homophobic and deny it. "I have lots of gay friends" they will say! Oh ya? Right!

I actually haven't been over here in a while and I have yet to see this video but I curious after I saw one of the few tbms I haven't unfriended/removed from my feed (she rarely post) post this on Facebook: http://happiness-seekers.com/2017/06/20/viral-video-of-gay-mormon-girl-misrepresents-what-we-actually-believe/

I'm about to go find said video but I'm laughing that they some how think that they are being misrepresented. "Well...they didn't set her on fire and call her a whore so I think we are pretty progressive!" JUST excuse me while I scream into the void. Bc that's what it feels like to me when I see articles like this. Do I think every Mormon is a violently anti-gay that they want all gays to be sent to quarantine? No. I think this idea that you think being kind and allowing homosexuals to practice your outdated religion but never have a famil, never have sex, and can pray it away...I think that's just as dangerous.

God, Summer yes. I hate the term "same sex attracted" too. Some people on sites like Tumblr have been trying to use it bc they don't understand that queer is perfectly okay to use and it kills me that people think it's okay to ever use it.

altava Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Hello ... I remember your posting handle. Well, sorta! :-)

I have a bunch of LDS folks and others I don't want to read every day on my FB Friends list so I make separate pages. It's really easy to do. I only keep what posters and groups I want on my Home Page! On the HomePage on the left is a list.. one is Friends. Click on that and you can make up separate pages.

I'm convinced that most LDS members do not know what they own policy is especially what was posted on their web site in Sept of 2016. They just make it up as they go along!

From that web site:

"The back story is that the video was taped 7 weeks ago and, in the meantime, a group of anti-Mormons have been working behind the scenes to use it to smear the Church and misrepresent our views (same people involved with MormonLeaks).
They immediately began pushing the video to news outlets, and trying to control the narrative in the process.
The video has been used to completely mischaracterize what we believe as Latter-day Saints.
But anyone who is aware of our doctrine, knows that we have nothing but love for members who experience same-sex attraction."

Damn those dirty anti-mormons!
They're the ones who are pointing out that her mic was cut off, and she was told to see!
Even though that happens in the video for all to leave!
We always tell people we have nothing but love for to shut up and leave!

Asshats.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2017 08:46PM by ificouldhietokolob.

She was cut off as a 12 year old girl by a man probably 5 times her age and twice her size I mean like dude how are we suppose to interpret this in any other way?

If she had gone up there and testified "normally" regurgitated info about how much she loves Joe Smith and Jesus, no one would of cared, if it was recorded or that she wrote the speech down before hand. I sat through hundreds of fast and testimony meetings and I know what goes on and how people feel about certain things during them.

Her parents are being supportive but according to other articles they are still members and such?

And yes you can tell her she is loved and she is welcome but (I watched the video) she SAYS "I believe that I can live my life as a lesbian with a partner and have a family" which means you have to then in tell her "Sorry Savanna, you can't do that. It's against God's will." How the heck is that NOT FREAKING insulting?

Mormons are so deluded that they don't understand. It's sad.

(Ahhh! I'm glad you remember me Susie! Even if it's kind of sort of Hahaha)

The CBC just ran a piece on their excellent news program As It Happens with the full sound bite of Savanna's testimony. I have never been to a LDS service or heard a recording, and some of her words were barely audible over the squeals, cries and babbles of small children. Do these meeting houses not have crying rooms?
It seems disrespectful to anyone speaking.

IHateCacophany

Some meetings are better than others. Usually, we can hear the speakers just fine through the PA system. If a child is noisy, most of the time,they are taken out into the hall. The main meeting: Sacrament Meeting is for the whole family. No such thing as a "crying room"! (Should have them!)

More noise could have been picked up because of where the mic was placed...

So, THE organization that claims to exclusively have ALL of the answers really does NOT, and anyone who does not fit with in the constructs of its self serving agenda is going end up being offered up as a casualty upon the altar of greater.

Then people are supposed to feel sorry for LDS Inc when it ends up being the target of dismay and social upheaval.

Welcome to the ONE WAY two way street of MORmONISM.

Don't know if anyone has said anything about that yet. Many mormon women love Ellen including my daughter. I'm sure Ellen will have her on the show.

AND Smirkorama, that has been one of my issues since I found out boyfriend was gay 33 years ago--that they told me all my life they had all the answers, but when it came to the ONE QUESTION THAT I NEEDED AN ANSWER FOR, they didn't have the answers. In fact, they had the WRONG answers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2017 05:57PM by cl2.

"experiencing same-sex attraction is not a sin and does not prohibit one from participating in the Church, holding callings, or attending the temple."

What the hell does this even mean...experiencing? You mean...If I have an experience with my penis?

By that definition, my best friend of 55 years (until her death, two and a half years ago) and I had a "same-sex attraction."

Our friendship was without question the deepest, longest-lasting relationship I've ever been in. We used to joke about people mistaking us for lesbians, but we weren't wired that way.

But the two of us had a very special relationship. We could - and did - trust each other with confidences we would not have shared with our parents or anyone else. It was a running joke between us that the reason our friendship endured for so long is that we knew so much about each other that one could have blackmailed the other forever.

Neither of us had siblings, and we used to wonder if our relationship was "like sisters."

I miss her so much. If she were still around, I would tell her that the Mormon church considered our incredible friendship a "same-sex attraction," and the two of us would giggle like the schoolgirls we once were.

Silly Mormons. They are so ignorant.