"Both her parents were taken aback by their daughter's desire to come out in front of her church.

"I was mostly nervous for her and where this would take her as a 12-year-old girl," said Josh, her father. Josh and Savannah are still members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the official name of the church.

Heather left the church a year and a half ago after official church policy documents were leaked online in 2015.

Those documents, confirmed by the church to CNN to be authentic, apostatize same-sex couples who marry and bar any of their children from blessings or baptism until they themselves reach legal age. They remain church policy.

Official church policy welcomes members of the Mormon faith that have same-sex attractions. They say it's possible to be "Mormon and gay."

Church teaching, however, mandates that members with same-sex attractions cannot act on those feelings. They must remain celibate and they cannot get married to members of the same sex.
"It resonated in my heart that it felt wrong," said Heather, speaking about those policies. Her "inklings" about Savannah's sexuality kept running through her mind.

The family gathered, walking Savannah through the good and the bad that could come from her speech. They walked through what the Mormon Church teaches about same-sex attraction.
"We let her make that decision, not us," Josh said pointedly. "I had nothing to do with ... coercing her or anything.",,,

"We came to the conclusion it wasn't our place; we couldn't silence her," said Heather. "It would be giving her a bigger message that she wasn't allowed to speak or there was something wrong with her...."

Savannah's bishop, Judd Law, had this to say to CNN:

"In the emailed statement to CNN, Law took issue with the recorded video, saying it was unauthorized.

Additionally, he said that a "group of visitors jubilantly left the service. ... Everyone is welcome and understands the standards of decorum and behavior if they decide to participate. It is unfortunate that this group of adults chose to violate them."

Law said the video was being exploited for "political purposes."

But Savannah's parents don't see it that way. They say they didn't witness anyone being disruptive. They also say there was no "group" present.

"Savannah invited a few close friends as allies," Heather tells CNN, responding to the statement from the local bishop. "There was no group."... [note however that the "friends" were adults present, not Savannah's age, and from the LGBT community.]

"This incident has created some tender emotions, first and foremost for a brave young girl," said Law in his emailed statement to CNN. "As a congregation, we continue to reach out, and do all that we can to make sure she knows that we love her and her family."

Demonstrating his love for her by cutting off the mike and telling her to sit back down. Is that love, or a Mormon version of "tough love?" Because it isn't what Jesus would do, though it doesn't appear he was consulted! I'm calling bullarkey!

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/coming-out-as-mormon-and-gay-trnd/index.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2017 04:52AM by Amyjo.

Thank you for this post, Amyjo...

...well done, and very much appreciated.

Thanks Tevai.

She's a lucky little girl in the sense she has a loving, supportive family and friends to help her grow up. She isn't going to find that support from the morg. Her mom already left because of the anti-gay policy. Maybe she'll follow in her mom's footsteps.

She has a long road ahead.

Small quibble but don't we all have roads ahead? The length of the road is directly correlated to the amount of time we have left to live, not the obstacles that we are currently facing or are ahead of us.

I think we should not automatically qualify things as hard. The attitude can be both harmful and excusatory. Better to accept your lot in life with a positive or neutral attitude and not predisposition your responses with the idea that it's going to be hard.

Just my two cents.

Living and growing up in Utah, and outing herself in a Sacrament F&T meeting is setting herself up for disappointment.

She's too young to know what shunning is. She will however find out all too soon, sadly.

Anywhere else (almost, with exceptions,) in this country she'd be accepted as she is without needing to seek affirmation from her church which is the majority population of the community she resides in.

True, we each have long roads ahead, depending on our life spans. Some are rockier than others. Given her circumstances, she's in for a bumpy ride IMO.

Hopefully not. But things aren't going to improve for her at church. That much is a given.

And how do you know that "she's too young to know what shunning is"? Weren't you ever shunned as a child, for whatever reason? I know I was, because I was too shy and introverted. By the time I was 13 I was seriously considering suicide because I was shunned and bullied so much. I imagine it's even worse as a LGBTQ person in an organization like LDS Inc. You don't give kids nearly enough credit; they're not all perfectly sheltered and pampered until the age of majority.

Perhaps I failed to communicate my point. I'm far from a deterministic person but to a large extent the future is determined by actions in the present.

In the same way that tolerance breeds tolerance and hate breeds hate. Negative attitudes create negativity. Why not be hopeful for her future, that she will always have a support system and that she will always be loved by those around her? Why put in her present that life will be hard in the future? Because doesn't that skew her decisions and perception to see the difficulty instead of the support?

Again this is just my opinion.

Teaching her to hide who she is in order to avoid shunning teacher her to be ashamed of who she is. In Utah she will be shunned by some, but supported by others. She should avoid those that would shun her, they do not love and support her. Better to find out who her real friends are now, rather than after the shame has been taught.

Growing up gay outside of Utah, I can say with certainty the statement "Anywhere else (almost, with exceptions,) in this country she'd be accepted as she is without needing to seek affirmation from her church which is the majority population of the community she resides in." simply is not true there are people everywhere, with no exception, that would not accept her. Anyone that that has followed the gay rights struggle know this.

I'm probably in the minority, but the extent her parents are pushing this publicly makes me a little queasy. She's only 12 and that's putting a ton of pressure on her. I worry Mom especially is using her to further her (Mom's) cause.

I agree - it is common for a twelve year old to get a crush on her female teacher. Does not mean she is gay.

It is common for a twelve year old boy to get a crush on his male teacher. Does not mean he is gay.

Thirty years ago when a twelve year old claimed a same sex attraction, the child was told that they are confusing admiration for sexual desire. The child is told not to worry and to continue to recognise traits they admire in others - same sex or not - that they can emulate as they mature.

A twelve year old is too young to be having sex and should not be so willing to commit to labelling themselves when they have a lot of growing still to do. A mother should protect her child so I am a bit uneasy about parental agendas and this girl being used by a movement primarily to hurt an organisation, rather than being supported and protected.

I also agree with others that this girl will get no support as she grows from the church, but I think that having 'adult' friends to support her is a bit out of place, unless they are long term friends of the family. This is whether or not those adults identify as LBGTQW.

Video of the incident is available in UK on daily mail website under 'most watched news' heading. This perpetuates the high viewing figures.

However, if one teenager decides against suicide because of this girl, then this girl MUST be applauded. It is far easier for her, due to her supportive family, than it is for others who identify as not fitting into the mormon mould and having no support for expressing their individuality from their own parents.

Every child deserved unqualified support. This idea that a parent or adult knows better than they do is offensive to the child. Behind the scenes parents or guardians can take steps to guide or direct a child in specific ways but visible action or spoken word should only be that a of love and support.

+1

I appreciate those who feel that this girl is putting herself at risk, but why on earth does everyone think this should be a big secret? That the tape should not be released or the parents should stay silent? No more secrets. They eat from the inside. No more closets.

The twelve year old along with everyone else on the planet should know that once something leaves your mouth, it will fly to every corner of the globe on the wings of technology. Only lack of interest because something is mundane will stop the flow of information.

She did this herself. It will impact her life. Who is to say that impact has to be negative or dangerous? Why shouldn't the parents have their say? What is to hide?

I hate the Mormon church most for the label Same Sex Attraction thereby reducing what I am to SEX. The main attraction for me is romantic. The main attraction is about life partner. Even if half of me was blown off by a bomb I would still want to touch and hold a man I love, look in his eyes, for reasons much deeper than sex. Companionship. That is the jewel. But companionship begins with an attraction that none of us have any control over.

The girl's testimony is about the fact that yes, many twelve year olds really do know themselves. I did. I knew I was gay as a very young child. I was very aware of the world and my place in it as a twelve year old just like this girl. The one difference is that I was very well aware that the most important thing I could do in life was to keep my secret. It was terrifying and life and death to me. But that was the late 1950's and things were different then. I am happy to live in a world where at least now, a large percentage of the population believe this to be on par with liking chocolate or vanilla or caramel. She could get threats. Be could get bullied and taunted still, but that could have happened anyway.

And how ironic that the bishop involved happens to be named "Bishop Law." His defense posits that following the Mormon church's rules, being obedient, were the problem here. He's intimating that if everyone had followed protocol then his actions wouldn't have been exposed. Unbelievable! Like someone said in another thread, in this Bishop's mind, the real problem here is that she gave her own testimony and not the testimony that she was supposed to give. This girl exposed Mormonism for what it is. Obedience at all costs---to you!

The girl is brave. A lot of the gay kids are the bravest you'll see. They have to be. You hone your most needed survival skills first. Maybe her testimony will help some other kid who isn't as brave. Maybe they won't find some other kid hanging from a rope in the closet.

Like mopping up said, the TSCC created this problem. She bore her testimony. The parents explained. Yes she could have waited until she was an adult and then this would have had no impact all all. I like the impact. I hope it helps the other kids. She stood up to a bully. She should always be proud.

It was actually my daughter when she was 14 who first went "public" with the fact. I don't know why she did. She has never told me, but when she did, it gave me the "freedom" to be open with people. And my son started telling his friends. They were all very supportive. The younger generations are doing a much better job with this than we old folks! My son's friends even travel with my ex and are good friends with him.

For me, every time someone would figure out that my "ex" is gay, I'd have a mini meltdown. When the neighbor, who was bishop, asked to talk to me for a moment, he just talked about normal things and then he said, "Can I ask you one more thing? Is 'he' gay?" His daughter had been our babysitter for years and her best friend happened to live next door to my ex and his boyfriend.

Once the cat was out of the bag, my life changed. I, too, was put in the closet. It is SO MUCH EASIER to not live with the secret. It's been so long now (daughter is 31 and as you all know very mormon), that I can't believe we waited so long.

Oprah even asked me to be on her show with Dr. Phil as I wrote her about my story way back in about 1997. My kids said they didn't want me to be one. They called me several times and I kept saying no.

The bishop told me when I first found out that I should not tell ANYONE. That was hell. I finally told 2 friends. Kind of told my sisters. I was NOT to tell my parents per the bishop. When my father figured out my husband was gay, he told me, "They are born that way."

These secrets are damaging. I applaud the young girl for speaking out. I actually think she will get more support than a lot of people think she will from kids her own age especially. Things are changing in the regular world.

I love how the bishop said that the church loves the gays, etc. Since I found out in 1983 that my ex is gay, they have taken steps backward, not forward.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2017 11:53AM by cl2.

Funny, this is a common argument against LGBTQ children and teens. "It's just a phase," "They'll grow out of it." You don't know how much damage such arguments do to these children, though. You're basically erasing their experiences and feelings by insisting that they can't know yet -- and I assure you, plenty of kids know exactly what they want, even earlier than 12 years old.

Being gay is NOT a phase and it's NOT all about sex. It's about romantic attraction as well, and 12 years is old enough to know who you're attracted to. Please stop denigrating others' experiences just because yours were different.

+ a million. This heteronormative view of what healthy sexual development needs to be dismissed.

Seriously, this really isn't all that different from a 12 year old girl stating how she wants to marry a good man, have babies, and be a good mother.

Ruby Bridges was, I believe, six years old when she and her parents made the joint decision that she would be one of the first students to integrate a white southern school. She walked to school every day in front of jeering crowds, accompanied not by her parents, but by federal marshals. For most of that year, she was the only student in her first grade classroom. How much conviction and bravery did that take? She used to pray for the people protesting against her.

To my mind, Savannah is doing something similar. She is telling the church in which she was raised that its attitudes and behaviors towards her and kids like her are not acceptable. It's a message that the Mormon church needs to hear. It's a message that her Mormon LGBTQ peers also need to hear, that they are not alone, and that someone is willing to stand up for them.

I agree paulk!

paulk, TSCC created the situation, not the child or her family. She was a short read away from the end of a single page, and the bishop could have had his say when the child had finished. Where would the story be then? The bish stands up and agrees that SSA is not a sin, that god does indeed love her, and has asked her to lead a tough life, her choices, blah, blah, blah. It was an "opportunity" turned into a PR disaster.

That said, twelve-year olds might want to try nudity at the beach or playground, flying with paper wings, or drinking or driving. The list is endless. Parents prevent them from situations that place the child at risk, and in my humble judgement, I can't think of a "good" reason to allow the video to go public at a twelve-year old's expense and risk. Maybe later, when the child is not so naive, it would be "her decision." This is an underdeveloped brain being allowed to lead a "cause."

Were I the parent, the line would have been drawn at publicity, the video well-preserved and protected for her later use, as the (now adult) child desires. Never, and I mean never, would I allow my child to place him or herself on CNN leading a "hot button" cause. Far, far too many nuts out there.

The parents open enough to discuss sexuality with her should also be savvy enough to understand and discuss personal security. It has nothing to do "feeling like something is wrong with" or "silencing" her, and everything to do with her being able to maintain the "peaceable enjoyment" (at a minimum) of her young life. I would help her to understand the difference, and not allow her to put the video on FB. My house, my rules, my phone, my pc.

All I have to do is think of red-necked teenage boys in her neighborhood who might want to "help" her "straighten" herself out, and it's no decision at all. "Speak to whom and how you want, sweetheart, but you're too young to broadcast it to the world."

Has anyone been able to find an article about this at the Salt Lake Tribune website or on Deseret News site? I have not been able to.

I was wondering the same thing. I've come to the conclusion that the Trib is not doing the story to somewhat protect her identity even though it's out on you tube. Knowing Utah Mormons a good majority of them may not even know this exist. Protecting her from the hate and bulling of others in her community maybe the Tribs reason for not running the story. With this in mind her community maybe very well aware of who she is, but none the less I think the Trib in this case doesn't want to fuel what might already be a hateful, narrow minded, regressive Mormon neighborhood against a 12 year old.

CNN more than makes up for coverage for what Deseret and SLT lacks!

New policy change coming.....parents that raise gay children will have membership revoked, temple blessings/ sealing cancelled until the child reaches age 18. At that time, the parents may be reinstated into full membership and fellowship if they disown the child, renounce the validity of the child's sexuality, and condemn it as sin.

Another observation: how many churches are *part* of one's life, as opposed to *everything* in one's life?

I can't think of one other church where a member would stand up and announce their sexual identity. And I still think that, at age 12, it's a bit too early to announce your sexual orientation: I made a few pronouncements when I was 12 that I thought were earth-shaking but were totally adolescent because, well, I was totally adolescent. I also still think that sexuality has been pushed so much that (like anonuk said) attraction is assumed to be sexual attraction--my 18 year-old has a BFF in college that she is confused about sexually, when it seems fairly obvious that she just admires her for a lot of excellent qualities and work ethic.

>>Another observation: how many churches are *part* of one's life, as opposed to *everything* in one's life?

I was raised with parents who had this attitude. Church was a part of life, but not one's entire life. Family came higher on the list than religion. If there was a conflict between what was best for the family vs. religion, family would win every time. My dad would have scoffed at the idea of handing over huge chunks of money, time, or *thinking* to ANY church.

The Mormon church wants to exert control over nearly every aspect of a member's life. The church wants your time, money, and resources. It's over when the members collectively wake up, decide it's over, and take over control of *their* church. That's why the Mormon church stresses obedience. It's so much simpler for those in authority when the membership unquestioningly obeys.

It really bothers me how many people are saying "she's too young" and "she can't really know yet." Don't you people understand that attitudes like that are a big part of the problem? LGBTQ kids are killing themselves in record numbers because their issues are being marginalized and erased by people like you!

Just because you didn't know what *you* wanted at 12 doesn't mean that others don't -- especially when it comes to romance and sexuality! Being gay is not a 'phase' for the vast majority of children and teens. It's not a "hot trend" or a political statement. It's about being true to oneself and living honestly, even in the face of tremendous opposition and hardship.

Seriously, have a little understanding and compassion.

My ex said he knew he was gay at a very young age, before age 5. Well, of course, he didn't know what it was, but he knew he was different.

Many of the ex-wives of gays I talk to, their husbands wouldn't say they were gay. Some still don't. Cheated with men, but they aren't gay. John Dehlin did a podcast last week I believe with a woman who had been married to someone gay and he didn't admit he was gay until after they divorced. She had to divorce him. Her story is quite compelling. They went to 2 LDS therapists who told them that her husband wasn't gay. Blew my mind.

Thankfully, no matter what else happened, my ex NEVER ONCE has told me he isn't gay. I do have one friend whose husband is now in another relationship with a woman and has been for quite a while and my gay cousin just remarried a woman for a second time last summer.

Thank you.

I was like cl2's ex-husband. I knew by the time I was five or six. Like for sure. I didn't hear the definition of the "Q" word from some Mormons until I was around ten. It wasn't said in a nice way. Scared the hell out of me. It was a big tip off as to what was ahead.

The one lifeline I had was that I read in the Life magazine about gay people in NYC and how some couples were friends with other straight couples. I saw that there was something out there, a glimmer of hope. I wasn't the only one. Still I spend years pretending to myself that if I was just righteous enough that it would go away. I used to pray that I could be with a woman if I had to, that somehow I could manage it. I don't want the Mormon kids thinking like that anymore.

I have a sneaking suspicion that those who are being dismissive and minimalizing the ability of a twelve year old to know what her sexual orientation are doing it out of ignorance about sexuality (seriously, people ALL around the world are not well educated sexuality overall) and value judgment placed on female sexuality.

This isn't a phase for most people. Sometimes it gets a little murky if you find yourself attracted to people you didn't expect, but that doesn't change who you were before. Why would anyone risk the danger that comes with being a lesbian in a heteronormative society?

Teachers always kind of moan and groan about when the hormones start kicking in with their students -- often in the spring of 5th grade, but it can vary. The kids just sort of lose their minds! By 6th grade, you can start to see kids pairing off, and of course that sometimes involves a same-sex love interest. There is a reason why middle school is a separate thing, and it's hormones. Savannah is definitely old enough to know her own mind in this regard. And yes, sometimes kids know at a younger age. I knew around 4th grade.

Boys and girls pairing up while those still on the edge of thelarche and pubarche think people of the opposite sex are gross. They still seem a little young to me to have a "serious" boyfriend and/or girlfriend, but I recall in the 80s even 3rd graders having relationship drama.

And 5th grade is just the worst in elementary! If I decide to go back, I am not looking forward to seeing my 4th graders turn into hormonal tweens with fidget spinners. *facepalm*

Can I just stay with the K- 2nd, where most of the issues are black and white?

I don't understand why boys and girls being interested in dating before the onset of puberty is a problem. My best friend in 1st and 2nd grade was a girl and we were really excited about dating, so we pretended. It was all very PG-rated of course because we couldn't really understand serious relationships yet, but we did have our own brand of "recess drama." We fancied ourselves King and Queen of the playground and gave other kids "relationship advice," hah!

Not all prepubescent children think the opposite sex is gross; I never thought that. It seems to be a product of the way adults segregate boys and girls, instead of a natural inclination.

I had one little second grade girl this year who had a love interest. But for the most part, the boys stick with the boys and the girls stick with the girls. That's normal for the age from what I've seen. It continues that way until the hormones kick in.

Probably because you don't see up close the issues I do in this area and how children are affected in their interpersonal relationships. I don't think what I observe is typical in other areas, but I could be wrong. I deal with issues of drugs, domestic and child abuse and neglect, poverty, sexual harassment and abuse and much more in the short 2.5 hours at the school where I work. It's hair-raising to say the least and it's not just one or two kids, it's a good portion in every grade.

It's one thing for kids to play at relationships, it's another when they're sexually experimenting at younger and younger ages (not the "Let's Play Doctor variety) and you're finding out that 5th grade girls are getting beat on by their 5th grade boyfriends.

That was a cute story you shared. It reminds me of how we used to have play weddings with the "couples" in 2nd and 3rd grade on Wednesdays. We didn't know back then you were actually supposed to keep the Woden on that day, not have weddings. I always have had boys as friends since I was very young and had a "boyfriend" at the age of 5, lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2017 10:53AM by Itzpapalotl.

"In the emailed statement to CNN, Law took issue with the recorded video, saying it was unauthorized."

IOW, Law isn't sorry for engaging in asshat behavior, only that said asshat behavior has been widely reported. Of course, he doesn't acknowledge that there could never be an authorized video.

Still, we can probably expect Dad to face some kind of disciplinary proceeding over this.

It is so interesting to view things prospectively i.e. her parents knowing their potential prospective grandkids couldn't be members due to the ban on homosexual people's children.

John Dehlin's Mormon Stories interview with Savannah and her mom Heather:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tEBUOXm5-A&t=158s

I just finished watching the beginning of Dehlin's interview and am really queasy now about the whole thing. This seems like exploitation of a little kid, asking her direct questions about her sexuality like he did. Ugh. That interview, more than watching her testimony at church, made me realize just how very young Savannah is and none of the adults around her are protecting her privacy.

How is that any different than a bishop invading her personal life? At least in a bishop's office there is the expectation of privacy. Not so when she's airing her sexuality for all the world to see.

Her parents are not protecting her privacy, or they'd be putting their foot down on what they'll tolerate. Their boundaries are not defined any better than TSCC's are. While their duty to their daughter *is.*

I find the pubicity a little unsetting too. I hope Savannah came out the way she did because it was her idea and that she wasnt infuenced or pressured by others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2017 02:28PM by bona dea.

I hope her peers, church, school, All...

are loving & supportive; I hope her parents FORBID any interviews unless they're present & Savannah wishes to be there.


me to LDS church (leaders): ES&Die

I love the way this has made the rounds and up the chains of the media, yea, even to CNN. Once again, the inspired church has shot a new hole in its collective foot. Once again, the LDS church looks like a bunch of fools. One might well ask, "Will they ever learn?" One might well respond, "No. Fool."

I wonder now if their parents will face some sort of retribution by the church. Surely, the SCMC must have their eyes on the parents. Surely, the bishop is conferring with some higher authority guy (not God, rather a guy in a suit), to come up with a strategy to send a message to the family.

EDIT: I forgot her mom has already left. I wonder about the dad, or any other supportive friends. I think that for most Mormons, all they have to do is have a gay child or grand child, and mostly that changes them. I have a gay grandson, and I hope that changes an attitude or two.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2017 07:08AM by cludgie.

The parents made a poor choice allowing their little girl to thrust herself into limelight and potentially receive backlash. She's twelve. How many of us knew ourselves at that age? The only funny part is that she had cross dressed for the occasion. Really, that couldve given it away. 12, shes 12! Awful parents and confused child....

A lot of LGBT kids know at that age, and are very active in fighting for their rights.

Not right for you? Fine, you are not her parents and it is likely you do not know enough about the situation to make the call.

Neither do you. This may have been Savannah's wish and she may be ready for the fallout-or not. It is also possible she was pressured and used by adults. We dont know. She probably is gay, but that doesnt mean she isnt being used and that she wont be hurt by the shunning and publicity that she will likely face. She is twelve and still a child. That is the issue, not whether she knows her sexuality. I am not saying she shouldnt come out, but it should be when she is ready. I worry about the attention this has gotten and the interviews and publicity. She is a child

She is a child.

She is.

It's crazy. She's speaking truth to a few million adults.

To those who are willing to listen, learn and grow, she's a great teacher.

To those who aren't, there are many easy ways to dismiss her voice, which is usually what most adults do to most children.

I am not dismissing her voice or her message.I agree with her. I am saying she may be being used by others and may suffer consequences because of it.She will be labeled not only as gay, but as an enemy of the church because she chose to come out in church. In a Mormon community shenwill.lose friends and be shunned. Children need a certain amount of protection. She is going to experience shunning, hatred etc-not to mention a lot of publicity. This may not be good for a 12 year old. Got it? If it is what she wants and she has a realistic view of what could happen, fine. However, I wonder if she is old enough to understand and deal with losing friends, bullying etc. There is enough of that in junior high already.

According to this story, it was her idea.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/19/us/coming-out-as-mormon-and-gay-trnd/index.html

Are the parents lying? Maybe. None of us know.

The evidence I have seen does not indicate that the child was being used. Being dismissive of the idea that this was the 12 year old's idea and desire just because she is 12 is fallacy. There are many examples of young kids doing amazing stuff:

http://www.goodnet.org/articles/6-outofthisworld-nonprofits-masterminded-by-kids-list

Do you think the parents have a duty to get her into counseling, and perhaps the whole family being as they're in a dysfunctional church, and sending mixed messages to their daughter?

If they love her and want what's best, would it not be best to get her out of an abusive church that doesn't tolerate "her kind?"

They're all going to need counseling IMO. Savannah, her parents, her siblings, etc. Especially Savannah.

I do not know enough to make a judgement about what the parents are doing in private. They may or may not be getting professional help for her, I do not know.

It does appear that they are being supportive of her, and that is, IMO, one of the most important things they can do.

I agree. However, I work with kids that age and have for nearly 40 years and the vast majority are not going to get up in public and discuss their sexual orientation. This girl could be an exception or someone might have pushed her to do so. None of us know, but I think it is worth asking

The guy in the video sitting in front of whomever was taping Savannah's testimony was from the LGBT community. They were there as a group (of adults, not children.)

It does sound like there was some prepping in advance for the event, because of the audience that turned out for it.

Well they do not discuss their orientation with you.

I have worked specifically with homeless teens, many are LGBT. She is not as exceptional as you seem to want to believe.

That hasnt been my experience. Most kids that age want to be like their friends and are not willing to do anything to make themselves stand out in any way.

Your experience has been with the broad population of kids. Mine has been with many homeless LGBT. Guess what, many of them would protect themselves and not talk about in the environment you described.

I have read that and who knows. I hope they talked to her about possible ramifications and made her think about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2017 10:40PM by bona dea.

According to the article, they did:

The family gathered, walking Savannah through the good and the bad that could come from her speech. They walked through what the Mormon Church teaches about same-sex attraction.
"We let her make that decision, not us," Josh said pointedly. "I had nothing to do with ... coercing her or anything."

Absent any other evidence, I will take them at their word.

It appears that many did not read the article, or they simply dismiss anything that conflicts with their idea of what should be.

"{Neither do you" Ah, but the big difference between me and What??? is that without adequate information, What??? is passing judgement on the parents, while I am simply pointing out that we do not have the information and am not making claims specifically about the child or the parents. I am not sitting in judgement of the parents or the child. I am being critical of a person that is being judgmental without all the information needed.

I am simply wondering which is not the same thing as passing judgement. Therw are a lot of factors which determine whether someone is ready to come out and understands the ramifications of doing so.I just hopefully his girl is ready. Other posters have said right out that the parents are wrong. I made a point not to do so. Go back and read my posts

Your statement "neither do you" is not a statement of "wondering" it is dismissive and indicates that you were lecturing.

Yes, I was lecturing your know it all attitude,(you dont know) but I was not lecturing the parents which was my point.

I never claimed I knew it all. I was stating that we DID NOT KNOW ENOUGH TO MAKE JUDGEMENT. If you have a problem with that, then it is your know it all attitude that is the problem.

I agree there are a lot of factors and have been saying that ALL ALONG. So, what's your beef that cased the "Neither do you" BS???And it was BS bedause I never indicated that I did know, nor did I pass judgment, I simply said the information is not available.

If you really are claiming that there are a lot of factors. than I am agreeing with you.

But for some reason you seem to be defending someone that passed judgement on the parents.

I find the arguments and counter arguments fascinating.....

Reminds of the mormons and ex-mormons arguing the legitimacy of Joseph Smith and the LDS religion.....

You are either for or against......

The rest doesn't matter....

The rest always matters. Apparently just not to you.

No kidding, the back and forth of the debate being the only thing that is important? Seriously? yetagain... is does not appear to be engaged in a thing called "Life".

Humans usually follow in copycat fashion after some 'big event'.

So sacraments across the globe can expect more of this...

Hard to shock, though, once it's been done 10+ times.

Anyone that doubts that a 12 year old can't know she is gay because she is 12 should visit visit a homeless shelter where there are a large number of LGBT teens sheltered. Talk with them about being gay, why they went homeless....

I have. I was stunned by the depth of understanding of being gay and themselves.

I'll take you at your word.

Of course, I've observed that adults tend to dismiss children's ideas and thinking.

Adults who are petty, complain about their friends and their lives, who are victims in their own life --- finally find themselves in an all-powerful role of parent. No longer impotent, they embrace the opportunity to be an all-knowing authority and take advantage of the power imbalance. They tell their children what to think, how to dress, how to act. They talk to their children in ways they would rarely speak to a friend - demeaning, condescending - getting angry when someone spills a drink when with anyone else it would be "oh, that's okay, here's a napkin."

So, here we go again with a lot of adults wanting to dismiss the thoughts of an insightful, honest, kind kid.

Of course you're right. You've shown these kids respect and listened to them. I'm sure that validation you provided meant something to them.

lots of speculation here, I think it should be more of a private matter, even if she 100% chose by herself to come out.

I agree there is a lot of speculation.

IMO, how a person comes out is their decision, and their decision alone. By definition, coming out is not a "private" thing. Each tie a person comes out, even if it is to just another person, they are making their sexuality more public.

let the poor girl live her truth ... why are all you grown folks bitching. thats what i always say anyway, for what it might be worth

Many important comments have been made here. It is not bitching as you so eloquently put it. It is a board for discussions on important topics. So we are discussing. We are not sending this to the girl or her parents. We are not publishing it in the New York Times. We are discussing on a private board because this matters to many of us. Where on earth did you find that kind of self importance?

sometimes during a discussion of important topics, one person concludes that the other is full of shit - or bitching as the case may be.

I don't think honeydew is demonstrating self-importance. To the contrary, honeydew is demonstrating an appreciation for Savannah's point of view. I'd suggest that the posters presenting self-importance are the ones who want to explain or speculate on how this may have been wrong - how it may have been wrong for a 12 year old to explain how she feels about her life.

Some here may have been mindless robots at the age of 12 and can't comprehend how a 12 (almost 13 . .. get it?) year old girl could be wise, insightful, loving and ready to reach out and do some good in the world.

So, self-importance? Maybe you just saw yourself in the mirror that honeydew held up.