Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: LehiExMo ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 12:32PM

"We are not a cult."
"We don't know that we teach that."
"We are just like you, Christian."
"We are not a cult."
"We don't know that we teach that."
"We are just like you, Christian."
"We are not a cult."
"We don't know that we teach that."
"We are just like you, Christian."
"Is it working? No? We will repeat it some more...."

Non-answers that simply underscore the Church's slow march toward Mormon Neo-orthodoxy (and I believe an eventual split). Someone should use these answers to update this page:

http://www.mormonwiki.org/Mormon_neo-orthodoxy

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 01:12PM

"Q: Can someone who may never marry in life have eternal marriage?"

"A: God will not withhold blessings from any of his children who may not have the opportunity to marry in this life"


The phrase 'in this life' has to be decoded by those who have earned meat. It takes care of baptism for the dead, a subject that they wouldn't want to bring up.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: LehiExMo ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 01:36PM

I have spent an hour and compiled a list of HONEST and doctrinal answers to these questions. Please help me spot any errors....


Q: Why do some call the Church a cult?

A: The scientific community, upon examining the LDS Church, would probably find that it resembles a sect, not a cult. Most religions in America fall in to this category. The historical LDS church did have many properties that were cult like. The modern church has abandoned many of those practices.

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God?

A: Mormon’s believe that Jesus Christ is the literal son of God.

Q: Does the Church believe in the divinity of Jesus?

A: Yes. Mormons believe Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior, and is a divine being.

Q: Does the Church believe that God is a physical being?

A: Yes. Mormons believe that both Jesus Christ and God are two physically separate beings with physical bodies. While separate physically, Mormons believe they are of one mind.

Q: If so, does the Church believe that God lives on a planet named Kolob?

A: The LDS scriptures teach that Kolob is a star or planet near God’s throne. This planetary like celestial body has a rotation that occurs once every thousand Earth years. Mormon scriptures teach this is the slowest rotating planet among God’s creations. Beyond that, the scriptures offer no additional insight.

Q: Where is the planet Kolob? What significance does the planet have to Mormons?

A: Mormons do not know where Kolob is. Mormons often refer to Kolob as a physical place close to God. Because Mormons believe God is a physical entity, they logically deduce he must be physically located somewhere in this universe.

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that God and Mary had physical sex to conceive Jesus?

A: Mormons believe Jesus Christ is the literal offspring of God and Mary (being both immortal and mortal). Mormons speculate that because God is a physical being, and as a God cannot break his own physical laws, likely inseminated Mary with sperm and egg. What Mormons don’t know is how that actually took place. Any guess (including a guess of physical sex) is just that, a guess. Mormons believe God’s body is physically human like, everyone on Earth being created in his image. However, Mormons believe that the physical properties of God’s body are perfect. Our bodies are not.

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe Jesus appeared in North America after his crucifixion and resurrection?

A: Yes. This is the main premise behind the Book of Mormon, and is a core church doctrine.

Q: If so, when did this happen? And under what circumstances?

A: Mormons believe that shortly after Jesus’s resurrection he divinely appeared to ancient inhabitants somewhere on the American continents, established his church including apostles, preached an identical doctrine as he did during his mortal ministry, and then ascended to Heaven.

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe its followers can become "gods and goddesses" after death?

A: Mormons believe that if they do all that is required of them, they can become exalted and become like God.

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that women can only gain access to heaven with a special pass or codewords?

A: The concept of Heaven is more complex than the traditional Christian view. Mormons believe tere are three degrees of heaven. In the highest degree, it is broken down in to three more sub-degrees. In order to obtain the highest reward (exaltation to Godhood) Mormons believe they must have knowledge that they preach in LDS temples. Those teachings include certain signs and passwords they believe are both physically and symbolically needed to gain access.

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that women must serve men on both Earth and in heaven?

A: Mormons don’t believe any woman will be forced to do anything.

Q: Is there such a thing as Mormon "underwear"? if so, are all Mormons required to wear it? What does it symbolize?

A: LDS Temple garments are worn by LDS members who have received special ordinances in the LDS temple. They include marks that are physical reminders of the path Mormons should follow. For example, there is a mark above the knee that reminds members to pray. Because these are worn close to the skin, it is a constant reminder of the teachings of the temple. Mormons who receive these garments are expected to wear them always and keep them sacred.

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe in the existence of another physical planet or planets, where Mormons will "rule" after their death and ascension?

A: Mormons believe there are other physical planets in the Universe where life exists. Mormons believe that the three degrees of Heaven will actually be three physically separate worlds. The most glorious world will actually be Earth, physically transformed in to perfect and glorious state.

Q: What specifically does the Mormon Church say about African-Americans and Native Americans?

A: The views of these groups have evolved over time within the Church. The historical perspectives are complex. However, the modern day view is that all individuals no matter their race are equal. Mormons have a special belief for Native Americans. Mormons believe they are the offspring of ancient Israelite ancestry, and the Book of Mormon was written by early Native Americans.

Q: What are or were the "Golden Plates"?

A: Mormons believe the Golden Plates was a record kept by righteous men who were ancient inhabitants of the Americas. They wrote their history and other sacred texts on these plates. The plates were later recovered and translated by Joseph Smith.

Q: Are consumption of alcohol and tobacco prohibited or simply discouraged?

A: Members who consume alcohol or tobacco are not permitted access to the Temple. However, members who consume these items are still allowed at normal Church services. Consumption of these items is strongly discouraged because the Church wants all members to be capable of entering the temple.

Q: Does the Church also ban the consumption of "hot drinks"? And does that apply specifically to caffeinated drinks?

A: It applies specifically to coffee and tea, which are among the list of contraband items listed above.

Q: Why do Mormons go from door to door?

A: Mormons believe their doctrine instructs them to share it with others via proselytizing.

Q: What do the Mormons believe about the family?

A: Mormons believe that families can be an eternal unit, existing in Heaven forever. These promises are only made to those family members that receive the highest level of Heaven.

Q: Can someone who may never marry in life have eternal marriage?

A: In order to receive the highest level of Heaven and become like God, you must be married. Logically deduced, this means God is married. If someone is not married while in mortal existence, Mormons believe that they can be married for eternity post-death.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Weeder ( )
Date: October 25, 2010 12:10PM

... there have been multiple statements on this by THE profit of the church (all dead now, of course).

The vary best ... and best corroborated is a reference I found in the Church Historian's Office many years ago: "A Lost Talk Found". I believe it was Heber J. Grant in Box Elder Stake Conference. A stenographer took down the sermon and the Stake President who was the owner of the Box Elder News had the notes typed up and sent to Heber J Grant for confirmation that that was his talk and that is what he had said. The President confirmed his words and sealed his letter with a: "you can take it as DOCTRINE" (or something just as strongly stated).

The sermon was addressed to the children in the audience -- and believe it or not he stated quite directly that HF and Mary shagged ("just as your father and mother created you" etc ).

Not that that was the only talk on this subject, but I believe it is the finest example of this principle being taught and there is no way the apoligists can use the old tired "he was misquoted" line etc.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: munchybotaz ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 01:58PM

and then I read the answers to those questions and know he's as big a lying sack as they come.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: another guy ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 02:50PM

I like LehiExMo's responses. These should be forwarded to FOX (with citations). Romney lies and obfuscates. He'll likely be made an apostle soon.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: another guy ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 03:02PM

...and ask FOX (or any other news organization) to also ask him about the 3 Nephites. I haven't heard that question asked of him by anyone.

I noticed that his responses were church responses, not his personal beliefs. Does he also believe these things? He has said before that he cannot 'speak for the church' when he was dodging these questions during his presidential candidacy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 02:56PM

I was at my public library yesterday and they had 4 new copies of his book on display in the new book section. Barf! No copy of Hawking's book to be found but boy howdy, you can get Romney's book right now.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: LehiExMo ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 03:00PM

To be clear, the answers in the article came from the church PR department, not Romney. It states that in the article. Along with this disclaimer at the top:

---
"Many of these questions are typically found on anti-Mormon blogs or Web sites which aim to misrepresent or distort Mormon doctrines," the Church said in a statement. "Several of these questions do not represent ... any serious attempt to depict the core values and beliefs of its members."
---

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 03:07PM

I'm sure Glen Beck will be happy to provide all the answers to those questions. He will have a bigger audience. :-)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tango ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 03:07PM

Fox’s Question:from your website here:
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,317272,00.html


Q: Does the Mormon Church believe its followers can become "gods and goddesses" after death?

A: We believe that the apostle Peter’s biblical reference to partaking of the divine nature and the apostle Paul’s reference to being 'joint heirs with Christ' reflect the intent that children of God should strive to emulate their Heavenly Father in every way. Throughout the eternities, Mormons believe, they will reverence and worship God the Father and Jesus Christ. The goal is not to equal them or to achieve parity with them but to imitate and someday acquire their perfect goodness, love and other divine attributes.



LDS.ORG Answer NOT TO EQUAL?? Vs. All Power and glory?? You have been lied to by the LDS Chruch-


From their website under

Exaltation

Gospel Principles

From their website lds .org--
5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).



1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).

2. They will become gods.

3. They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.

4. They will receive a fulness of joy.

5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nina ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 03:12PM

Argh! Aologies! I think I told Susan that sometimes I even "write" with an accent. Concrnin tharc, one could add so many things,such as D&C 132 is still requirement on LDS canon for highest exaltation, and the question about women, They should asked if only the husband is permitted to all his wive(s) forth in the resurretion, not the other way around. I could go on. I had a friend who sent me this link, telling me he sounds Christian, especially, since he said he finds polygamy discusting, yet the next day he said, he believes everything the church teaches.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nina ( )
Date: October 24, 2010 03:24PM

I just reread the article and noticed the word "misconception" the morg keeps drilling into the general public. As a poster stated "We're Christians just like you".
And now they got Beck. I wondered what he thought about those answers. Or other TBM's.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: October 25, 2010 11:46AM

It's what I believed and lived.
There are hundreds of opinions about many teachings in Mormonism, and members internalize them differently.
But these answers are accurate in my experience.

I don't believe the claims, of course, but I did for many decades.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Puli ( )
Date: October 25, 2010 12:44PM

Question 1: Why do some call the Church a cult?

It's because the church is so evasive and secretive about answering any and all other questions about the beliefs and doctrines of the faith. They try like crazy to appear "like everyone else" but they know they have held themselves out as special, different, and "better than" the average Christian. This is the reason they called themselves a peculiar people at one time and may still do so among themselves. The repeated answers (or non-answers for the most part) do not fully explain the beliefs required from members of the Mormon church.


There are some outright falsehoods in Romney's answers as well. For example, his answer to:

Q: If so, does the Church believe that God lives on a planet named Kolob?
A: 'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith did not provide a full description or explanation of Kolob nor did he assign the idea particular significance in relation to the Church’s core doctrines.

Q: Where is the planet Kolob? What significance does the planet have to Mormons?
A: 'Kolob' is a term found in ancient records translated by Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith did not provide a full description or explanation of Kolob nor did he assign the idea particular significance in relation to the Church’s core doctrines.

This link is from the TSCC's own website regarding the source mentioning Kolob.
http://scriptures.lds.org/abr/fac_2

The first line of explanation says: "Fig. 1. Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in government, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh."

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dr5 ( )
Date: October 25, 2010 12:50PM

If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,
And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,
Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?

Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’
Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”

The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.

There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.

There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.
There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.
-WW Phelps

Many of these answers seem evasive or downright untruthful to me. For example, the answers given seem to evade the literal goal of the most righteous of Mormons: to become Gods and Goddesses and create worlds without end. That's what this hymn's about. I don't know if it's still in the standard hymnal, but it was 35 years ago.

And women only get to the highest level with a righteous hubby who knows and calls their secret code names.

edited to include entire hymn



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2010 12:55PM by dr5.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **     **  ********   ********   *******   **    ** 
 **     **  **     **  **        **     **  ***   ** 
 **     **  **     **  **               **  ****  ** 
 *********  **     **  ******     *******   ** ** ** 
 **     **  **     **  **               **  **  **** 
 **     **  **     **  **        **     **  **   *** 
 **     **  ********   **         *******   **    **