So a month or so ago, my girlfriend and I were staying at the Laguna Cliffs Marriott. I had some IT work to do in San Juan Capistrano and we decided to spend the weekend at this lovely hotel.
During the course of the weekend a beautiful Christian based wedding was assembling on the lawn below the terrace/bar that we were sitting on. We were having a few glasses of wine and some food. My work was done and it was time to relax.

Along comes a couple, dressed in suit and tie (guy) and a woman with an off the shoulder gown, almost a tube top kinda upper part of the dress. Not a good look for her since she didn't have the type of body that a tube top would flatter.

They sit next to us, he orders a Jack and Diet coke, she orders a tanguerea and tonic. No biggy.

Since they are sitting next to us, its hard not to overhear their conversation as they pick apart the people below us....."that dress is so immodest.....she looks like a hooker......I wonder what he's paying her to come here with him" and on and on and on.

During this "dressing down" of the wedding guest below us, the woman next to me hikes up her long gown and starts adjusting her lower garments!!!!!!!! Obviously the uppers weren't there and she was working out a snuggie or something.

Having been a YSA Bishop and a 10 year HC veteran and Temple worker etc.......I knew what I was seeing.

I leaned over and smiled and said......."God I so can't stand being around "fake mormons"........like you two douchebags who sit here with your Pharisaical judgement and tear everyone apart while you violate the WOW and wear half your garments. I'm sure your Bishop is aware and condones this kind of behavior? How's that Endowment BS working out for you???

Had I hit them with a soiled diaper in the face, the reaction would have been the same. It was PRICELESS!!!!

My NeverMO gf was laughing as they quickly backed out their chairs and left. They could not leave fast enough. From where we sat, it was more than evident they didn't even attend the wedding which was absolutely beautiful and filled with such wonderful loving comments from the Pastor and the Father.

In the end, the judgemental posture of these two Temple worthy, tithe paying hypocrites....reconfirmed......AGAIN......that I wasted 30 years drinking the kool-aid.

No regrets, so glad I left. Feels so good to be honest with who I am and with God. And......i had such a lovely romantic time with my GF. Highly recommend this place!!!!

I so rarely think of JUST the right thing to say at such a moment. It always comes 30 minutes too late (minimum). But you got it, on the nose, on the spot.

Bravo!

If, in fact, your story is true....and you couldn't stand being around those people, you should have been the ones to get up and leave. If, in fact, you said what you claim to have said, I think you are very rude and I don't mind telling you so. Live and let live....or as an exmormon...leave and let live.

It's more than evident that you are a TBM trolling for a response. The events are in fact true, and I had no intention of interrupting my late afternoon on the terrace to excuse myself from a couple of hypocrites.

Secondly, I could care less if you think I'm rude. If you have any spine, why don't you identify yourself and your "testimony" of the true and living pedophile.

I have left, but will never ever silence my voice from the people who stole 30 years from me in my trusting naivety.

In addition I will not remain apathetic to the obvious blasphemy of these two, who pretend to be temple worthy members of the church and possibly give tearfilled BS testimonies of how this Christian wedding was missing the PH and various other elements of BS that are only found in the outhouse of the temple....all the while sipping their booze.

If that would be your response, that's fine. Go on living your lukewarm existence.....but oh....that thou were't hot or cold, but thou art lukewarm.
Get educated doctrinally or shut the hell up.

I personally would have been offended by real Mormons. Fake ones are very entertaining. To think, people could be that openly hypocritical is famously like The People of Walmart pictures. Except The People of Walmart aren't being openly hypocritical.

Judging other is so much fun when they provide you with admonition er, I mean ammunition so you don't even have to find some of your own.

Now real Mormons judging everything by their standard in any situation is stultifying annoying. It is super offensive to me when people choose to intermix with a variety of people and can't leave their courtroom and gavels at home.

Ha. You're funny. OP & GF were there first, minding their own business. Then the hypocrite TBMs showed up, and proceeded to mind others' business.

OP's response was great. The only thing better would have been if he had taken pics and posted them on FB to embarrass them in public. They deserved it. And if you think that's rude, too f***ing bad, and I don't mind telling you so.

Why is it the exmos always have to carefully walk around and accommodate mormons? It gets pretty tiresome. OP shouldn't have had to leave, and didn't. Tough.

Christ also called out hypocrites. They should be ashamed of themselves. I have had to deal with that very sort of fake Mormon. Supposedly a great go to church guy. He was my wife's boss at work. Then he starts sending odd messages to her. Apparently he has a thing for asians after coming back from Thailand. It progressed into him asking her to send naked pictures to him (he worded it as her sending pictures of herself wearing invisible pajamas). Call them out.

I think the story is awesome! Sometimes people need a wake up call to their arrogance and assholery. ;-)

Thank you for giving out a punch for all of us who had to suffer spending time with horrible people like this!

My latest experience with cult buffoons happened at a funeral, so I did not say anything, out of respect for the deceased. The funeral was for a lovely aunt of mine, who was always kind and loving, and enjoyed 50 years of a great marriage, and wonderful children, and a summer cabin on a lake, and travels all over the world. She was the first one of our GA family to leave the cult, and she did so to marry her non-Mormon husband. She and her husband served in the SLC community, and did a lot of work in real charities. They were great human beings.

Her funeral was held in a neutral place, and not in a Mormon church--so there was to be no preaching of the plan of salvation or other Mormon garbage. It was a lovely funeral, until the last speaker, her brother, who was a big-wig at BYU, and had been a mission president, and a trainer at the MTC. He said he was sure his sister and husband (who preceded her in death) would find a way in the hereafter to be together, because their one Mormon daughter and husband were going to do the temple work for them, and that he knew and his sister will be reunited in the Celestial Kingdom.

As inappropriate as that was, what upset me the most, is that my three TBM cousins sitting in front of us actually gave each other high-fives! They kept their hands lower, more towards their laps, but everyone could still see them. The one who's face I could see, smiled and winked, and said, "Good for him! He got The Church into the funeral!" Like, it was a war!

Dear OP,

How are you any different than the two people berating the wedding guests? You act judgemental and hypocritical during most of your story. I doubt you are right about the woman wearing garments, but it is telling telling that you equate hypocritical douchiness to Mormons.

Is pointing out hypocrisy the same thing as hypocrisy?

I don't think so. Do you?

I think it would be hypocritical to not accept that it could be hypocritical to point out hypocrisy. That said, for those like me who might be unaware of personality quirks and defects it is always helpful to have someone point them out for me.

jacob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it would be hypocritical to not accept
> that it could be hypocritical to point out
> hypocrisy.

You pointed out that you thought the OP was hypocritical! Does that make you hypocritical? ;)

He isn't pretending...

jacob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear OP,
>
> How are you any different than the two people
> berating the wedding guests?

The OP is infinitely better than the two fakers. He's not fake, he's not violating any promise/covenant/bs and they are.

If you like Jesus, he called out hypocrites, too. So the OP is definitely Christ-like and should be rewarded handsomely for his example.

It is funny how some people try keeping it up. What a bunch of effort it takes. I'm not sure I would have done what you did, but it's a funny story.

I have enjoyed not having to put up any pretense. I don't drink but my wife does, and we have guests who like to. So there's stuff on hand, and I don't make any effort to hide it from my parents.

It's actually kind of funny, because my mom seems to slip in horror stories about friends or relatives who have gone south from drinking too much. I'm just like uh huh, okay. She can think what she wants.

I'll just be who I am, and let them think what they think. I don't obey the commandments, but I'm an apostate so what'd you expect?

Great story and great response. I'm only wondering why she was wearing half her garments? Did she feel better because she still had her bottoms on?

I work at the parking garage downtown SLC, and the first part of the week, I saw lots of missionary couples staying there. There must be a time where they are starting their mission or they are in town for training etc.

But I was noticing the "eternal smiles", especially on the men in their white shirts. I so don't miss wearing those things.

gotta keep the really nasty bits covered with the holy cloth don't ya know?

I just can't imagine why anyone mormon would wear only the bottom half of garments. My guess is that she was wearing a spanx body suit, which are often worn under dresses for a slimming effect like a girdle. They can be uncomfortable and need adjusting if not fitted properly. Also, if they were actually wedding guests at a "Christian" wedding they likely were not Mormon.

They used the word, "immodest" which is a Mormon term, however. Nevermos use different words to describe a woman who is not dressed appropriate to the occasion. Nevermos are not obsessed with "modesty" in the way that Mormons are -- more appropriateness. I never heard the expression "modest is hottest" until I became involved with Mormon culture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2017 01:36PM by summer.

Immodest is not an exclusive term or obsession to Mormonism. Christians are just as obsessed with controling female dress, behavior and reproduction as Mormons and other authoritarian religions are.

The couple probably had no idea what the OP was ranting about! Thinking they were being accosted by a real nut case, they couldn't get out of there fast enough!

I think a more accurate description would be "some" christians....

Some women do because it prevents their legs from chafing. That's the only thing those underwear are good for.

Should there be any confusion about what the word: hypocrisy means.....
"Hypocrisy is the contrivance of a false appearance of virtue or goodness, while concealing real character or inclinations, especially with respect to religious and moral beliefs; hence in a general sense, hypocrisy may involve dissimulation, pretense, or a sham. Hypocrisy is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another. In moral psychology, it is the failure to follow one's own expressed moral rules and principles."

xtremewayz nailed it.

That is a funny story, but at the same time I think you risked being in front of a black belt or a good fighter who could probably react in a way not good for you. Funny anyway.

only been wearing her garment bottoms, I KNEW MANY PEOPLE who only wore garment bottoms when it came in "handy." I dated a guy (once) a only wore his garment bottoms so he could get a good tan in the summer. The bishop told him several times "it didn't work that way." My daughter's friends have been known to do the same thing.

Those wonderful 2 piecers make it possible to get away with only wearing half the garments.

Yeh, DH would only wear the bottom half, even when he was active. He just didn't like the tops, found them to hot.

He still wears the garment bottom.. the same garment bottoms... from when he was active.. 10+ years ago..they barely resemble garments at all, but I'm not buying him anymore.

I'm sure that the situation was as irritating as someone conversing on their phone in a theater, even before the garmie glimpse, until which time, they were just an irritant to be tolerated.

On the lighter side...

The garmies pulled your trigger, and I'm glad that you were armed with so much more than a hose.

A bit darker is the thought that whoever they are, they are not TBMs, and possibly at some stage of disengaging from the BS, and a holy ghost chastised them. Another thought is that one (or more) of them was encouraging the other to loosen up a bit, and got burned.

Losing judgmental, big mouths is an aspect of healing, but moism can be no more than a convenient outlet for natural-born critics, and a holy ghost a temporary cure. ;)

I'm afraid of causing harm, so I might have asked them to keep it down or moved myself. Let them stay on the Group W bench all by themselves.

Whoever they are, either way, I'm fairly sure that you gave them loads to think and talk about.

If I were presented with that situation, I probably would have fallen back on my amazing passive aggressive talents I developed as a mormon.

I would have said to hubby (so the couple could hear)"Oh wow, this is so much better then any mormon temple wedding i've been to. The setting is incredible, unlike that stuffy room full of mirrors they jam everyone into. And not only that, the bride and groom can look any way they want to and say anything they want to. The person marrying them will say the words of love that the couple wants to hear. And BEST of all, ALL of their friends and family are allowed to be here in this amazing setting to witness the marriage. So much love. And they actually talk about it. So different than that temple BS where everyone is sitting sweating in long underwear with those temple costumes.

I'll bet they have a fabulous dinner and champagne to go along with all this. Now THIS is a celebration of love. Why would anyone want to go to one of those horrid temple fiasco's?"

Yep, I have my speech ready for the occasion if I would ever be so lucky to find myself sitting next to a couple of fake mormons in a bar. My husband is even better at things like this than I am. He'd have them laughing their heads off, right before he cut them off at the neck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2017 07:13PM by janis.

Having been a YSA Bishop for 5 years and having sat in on numerous "courts of love" as a HC man over the course of nearly 10 years, I've seen and heard a multitude of reasons why people wear half of their garments. In this case perhaps it was to remain somewhat fashionable, succumbing to her personal desires to wear an off the shoulder gown.....who the heck knows outside of her for having done it. I know what garments look like and as she adjusted her left leg (pulling it down) of her garments the "mark' over the right knee was very visible. These were garment bottoms. Period. You don't believe it.....i could care less.

Those who complain about me being rude in my comments, in my opinion represent the culture of "everybody gets a trophy". God forbid someone is a loser in some way. That's not real life. And to remain remain silent when they are the ones tearing down good people who are there for a good reason and to be supportive.......I will not remain silent. Furthermore, to those who find my comments rude...... your comments are as pious as those who fake their way through their religion because they don't have enough spine to either be truthful with themselves or are just to lazy to investigate what they really believe in. Stand for something.....or you'll fall for anything.

I will call people like this out for what they are. They are no different than the multi billion dollar mall building hypocrites that also govern the temples of the lds church. Yes hypocrites. A mall in the shadow of the temple that is open on sundays and serves alcohol 7 days a week, and yes the lds church owns it and hides behind their non lds partner. SO much for avoiding the appearance of evil. All the while pontificating on the virtues of their doctrine from the conference center, well within earshot of the steady ring of the cash register a block away. That's the hypocritical example that is set for their membership.

The wedding was one of the most wonderful, love filled and pure events I've ever witnessed. The father's blessing on his daughter and son in law was in my opinion something that is lost in LDS weddings. He spoke with the permission of the Pastor and it was truly inspired. It belonged in the wedding. It was from the heart and arced into the hearts of all who were presents from where we sat. There was another couple from Colorado to my GF's left who were also enjoying the sunset and a glass of wine. They were both in tears.....as was nearly everyone on the terrace/bar above the wedding. I was not invited and did not know the families. However, when it was done, and even during the wedding we both felt welcome and left wanting to know these people. The two pretend mormons in their self righteous fakeness just would have never fit in. Typical Pharisees with their never-ending laws of obedience. I've sat through enough tithing settlements with people like this who BS their way through life. They draw near with the lips when the time is right, lie about their tithing, their fast offering, lie in the temple recommend interviews and lie in their testimony.

And so there is no misunderstanding, I do not perceive myself as better than them. I am who I am and have lost everything in the process of confronting the church regarding the fraud they have perpetuated since 1830. Matthew 19:29 gives me some hope after having lost my relationship with thousands of friends, my children, my grandchildren and my now ex wife and extended family. In view of the years of suffering that followed the shunning I got......I will never remain silent. So you who think I'm rude.....you don't know me or know what I have endured from parasitic ticks like the two who sat next to me in a bar spewing their judgement.

And yes.....i have pictures of the wedding. Not of the two fake mormons. I took photos of the wedding from our vantage point because it was beautiful and touched me. I wanted the memory.

Sorry, you got their mall hours confused.

Indeed, they are closed on Sunday.

Messygoop....thanks for pointing that out regarding mall hours. I stand corrected.
When I originally went to SLC to speak to a seventy and 2 GA's about my questions, the mall was open on Sunday. Maybe it was an open house thing...idk. It was however a point of discussion in my discussions with the GA's. At that time, they indicated that they had a non member partner who was responsible for it being open on Sunday and has several establishments that served alcohol. My comment to them was that in my 30 year membership, I was always counseled and also gave counsel to avoid the appearance of evil. I'd heard it given from the pulpit and in the privacy of a Disciplinary Council on many occasions. They simply don't care. It was in my opinion an excuse to keep the revenue flowing since tithing was slipping every year, and possibly membership in countries where people can afford tithing.


Today.......try being honest with your family and yourself. To stay for the sake of your wife...guess what.....no prizes for a martyr. It's painful, but very freeing. It was painful for me when my wife refused to pray with me, since my faith was different than hers. It really hurt as I felt her slipping away in her affection, respect, love etc. It cut deeply when I discovered what she'd told our children (2 of which were hers that I'd adopted) In the end, I didn't know what I was missing until I came clean. I have peace in my heart and am enjoying the love and company of someone I don't have to pretend around.
As to the eavesdropping....There was no eavesdropping. She bumped into me, they both spoke loud enough for not only us to hear but also the next table past us who were visiting from Colorado. Maybe the drinks were too much for them. Maybe talking loudly made them feel more confident in their disobedience to their covenants.....that's a question for them.
Definitely not an eavesdrop. I enjoy my life too much to have to put energy into that kind of behavior.

I get criticized all the time.....I don't get butt hurt.....and if someone is overlapping into my private space with their loud obnoxious comments.....I will not remain silent. I came there minding my own business to enjoy myself and didn't infringe on anyone. I enjoyed the wedding and the atmosphere it provided. You can remain silent, but you've had no problem voicing yourself here......oh wait.....you don't actually have to see anyone, you can hide behind your monitor. You're no different than the fakers at the wedding...but being that way is your prerogative.

I won't remain silent.

Thats my prerogative.

xtremewayz wrote:

> you don't actually have to see anyone,
> you can hide behind your monitor.

Yes xtremewayz, we all have fake names.

*Stands and claps with mouth dropped open and in awe!

Thank you! I loved that you just spoke that truth.

RMM

I am still Mormon for my wife. I know the issues and have not believed for a few years. I drink. I go to church and try to fit in. Sometimes I go to some event with my wife, people watch and criticize some we see. It's what we do sometimes. Call me a hypocrite, so fuck you. Quit evesdropping and mind your own business.

"Call me a hypocrite, so fuck you."

Okay. You're a hypocrite, so fuck you.

"Quit evesdropping and mind your own business."

OP has to mind his own business, but you don't? You're a hypocrite, so fuck you.

Yes, knew it i'd get someone! It's always ok when we judge and critize, just not when someone else does ir.

Today Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, knew it i'd get someone! It's always ok when
> we judge and critize, just not when someone else
> does ir.

The OP never pretended to be immune to judging from the couple. It's on, both ways.

If anything, the OP seems to be the opposite of a hyper-sensitive reactor who can't handle criticism.

OP appears to be dish it out AND can take it. Just my kind of person.

Eavesdropping is hiding around a corner to hear something or opening a window a crack to hear something or that sort of thing. When you are sitting next to someone and they are talking in a manner that you cannot help overhearing, that is not eavesdropping.

The OP chose to respond and had a bit of fun with it. The couple could have laughingly responded with, "Oh, you're on to us! Haha" and stayed for the party. But they chose to put their tails between their legs and skedaddle because they weren't comfortable with their own actions and felt guilty when they got caught. I love it. Maybe it will be a catalyst and make them think a little.

What you do in public is fair game for comment. Always will be even if you don't like it.

What an incredibly immature response. Perhaps you want to address why your trigger has been pushed so hard that you needed to reply like a juvenile.

People confuse the term "eavesdropping" with spying. It comes from the experience of watching and listening to others in a public. In medieval times, eavesdroppers were people who watched social settings. It reminded people to watch what they say in PUBLIC. If you are out in a public setting, commenting on a public board, behaving publically...guess what? You are subject to public response.

Another shocker..you may not like it.

Spying is the intent to gather information without being detected.

OP was in a public SHARED space with another couple being outspoken in a public venue. The OP was direct and confrontational. I would do the same.

As for pretending to be Mormon to please others/keep the peace.

Peace at ANY price, is no peace at all.

RMM