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Posted by: Honest TBM ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 01:48PM

Any of you remember the super beloved church leader named Boyd K. Packer? Oh his holiness was off-the-charts in a super special way that is amazingly notable in church history. Well one of the amazing prophetic things that he said was as follows to a seminar for new Mission Presidents in 1982: "Oh, if I could teach you this one principle. A testimony is to be found in the bearing of it!" https://www.lds.org/ensign/1983/01/the-candle-of-the-lord?lang=eng

As I read this today I felt a fuzzy wuzzy feeling in my "heart" (which I presume may be the Spirit) which I'd like to share. Now for all you fact-checkers out there I state up front that I share this story in the Paul Dunn spirit of principle-teaching so keep that in mind as you try to get me to divulge more details to check out my story's credibility.

One Sunday while sitting through a glorious High Council sermon in Sacrament meeting I was feeling overjoyed at how this holy man of God was giving us a message directly from the Lord on some principles that the people of my Ward/Stake needed to hear in order to more quickly build up the Kingdom. However, as I observed some fellow congregant dozing off instead of paying close attention to the sacred discourse, my own mind began to wander a bit and I worried that if I didn't quickly repent that I would face severe judgement from the Almighty for not fully implementing the sacred counsel we were receiving in that sermon. I thought about how it would be wonderful if my freezer at home could be filled with jugs of ice cream & the kitchen entirely filled with ice cream cones. I thought how silly that would be but I recalled President Packer's sacred words and was aware that my knowledge was gained in declaring such affirmation. So I wrote a quick note to this fellow congregant that after the sacred service had concluded that they could come over to my home for plenty of ice cream cones for our families as I knew that the freezer was full of ice cream jugs and the kitchen full of ice cream cones. I passed the note and then quickly regained focus on the sermon. Tears of joy flooded my eyes as the beloved High Council speaker imparted the word of the Lord to us.

After church I went home and sure enough the freezer was full of ice cream jugs and there was no room to walk as the kitchen was full of boxes full of ice cream cones. From a logistics perspective what had happened is that some burglars had stopped by a warehouse of a company that runs a bunch of ice cream parlors and stolen a lot of loot. They got scared, came into our neighborhood, and thought our home would be a place to temporarily store some of their stuff. And then when we came home from the super-inspiring Sacrament meeting they fled without time to take their loot with them.

Based on the principle taught by President Packer you can be sure why they stopped at my home was because of the faith I had exercised. A testimony is gained by bearing it.

Now some of you anti-Mormons may poke fun or holes at my tale. You might even accuse it as being totally illogical and fallacious. But this is a rock solid foundational principle in Mormonism. A testimony is gained by bearing it. Just say its true and its true :) Thus I have to believe this way of logical thinking if I'm going to be an honest TBM.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 01:56PM

I always feel the spirit when I read your posts.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 02:18PM

I testify that the prophet Joseph Smith gained a testimony of his First Vision by constantly and consistently bearing his testimony of his visitation by Our Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son, even Jesus the Christ; by constantly and consistently bearing his testimony of his amazing First Vision, we know that Joseph Smith was visited, in the Sacred Grove, by Our Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son, even Jesus the Christ, and not just an angel, or *only* Our Heavenly Father, or *only* His Beloved Son, even Jesus the Christ, or some other possibly made-up story about not joining any church because they are all wrong, or that he was forgiven.

And by hearing and listening and pondering and praying about the Prophet Joseph Smith's constant and consistent and unchanging testimony of the First Vision, we also can gain an unchanging testimony by bearing out testimony of the unchanging story of the unchanging First Vision.

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Posted by: midwestanon ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 02:35PM

Yes, I feel the spirit.

Or the need for spirituous beverages. One or the other.

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 09:23PM

I am drinking the Spirits right now....

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Posted by: shapeshifter ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 04:47PM

It's funny how much your story reminded me of some of the New Age beliefs out there. Not sure if you are familiar with the channeled messages of 'Abraham-Hicks' (Hicks the name of the one channeling and 'Abraham' the name of a GROUP of 'entities' channeling the information).

It's not surprising to me now, esp. in light of your very 'inspiring' story, that I had gravitated towards these new age teachings after leaving the LDS faith..

They speak of the 'law of attraction' the 'law of manifestation' and such. So that if you focus on a thought hard enough (they don't say with 'faith' but that's what is implied) without any nay saying doubts (sound familiar?) than you can have ANYTHING you ask for!

Amazing isn't it? So if you think long and hard about getting a BMW even if you have zero money, that BMW is sure to come to you, esp. if you act as if you already have it. One thing you can do is go around town pretending to drive a car that doesn't exist yet. (Ignore the weird stares, they are just doubters and haters, trying to take your magic power away from you, esp. they don't want you to have that BMW!) So anyone who asks, in faith, it shall be given. EVERYONE can be a billionaire, the universe is abundant! No need to think about suffering and hardships and there not being enough to go around. That's just 'negative' thinking that will block you from getting your birth-right deserved riches! And anyone who is poor and suffering, well it's there own fault for not having enough positive faith filled thoughts, so you can just ignore them. (Because if you think about them at all you'll have negative thoughts and you won't get what you want!)

Of course the Hicks couple behind this scheme are loaded. Why? Because they tell people what they want to hear. That they can be all powerful and happy and have everything they want as long as they keep positively focused on what they want.

If it doesn't work, it's not their fault, the information is not at fault (how can it be when it's been CHANNELED! similar to 'from God'), it's YOU who are at fault! Your thoughts weren't perfect enough!

But if they were than you could have a house full of ice cream cones and ice cream, don't worry about the details of how it will get there, leave THAT up to the 'Universe' (i.e. God) who knows better than we do how to make things happen.

It's interesting too the story behind the Hicks couple (btw the way many of you may not have heard of them but may have heard of a popular movie called 'The Secret' which was based on their channeled info found in their very popular books), they had heard about the 'Seth Speaks' books in the 70s when a woman started channeling someone who called himself 'Seth.' Her books were pretty popular at the time. Well this Hicks couple read them and thought they should try channeling. They used a OuiJi board as an aid and low and behold right off the bat Easter Hicks started channeling! Just like that!

They basically copied their info from the Seth books (a lot like Joe Smith) and wrote their own updated ones. And then started touring around the country holding workshops where Easter would go into her trance and channel 'Abraham' (Gee I wonder if they wanted to target the Judeo-Christian population by any chance?) Easter speaks in a really funny voice while she channels so that we know it's 'real'..

I think there are some parallels there with the LDS fraud founded 'religion' for sure.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 11:28PM

I experienced similar concepts, with different terminology, in Christian Science: If you have the right "spiritual/metaphysical understanding" + firm belief (the two, combined = 'faith')", then you can gain control over your temporal circumstances (including finances and health), and advance your spiritual existence to a higher level when--inevitably--your mortal body ceases to function.

My Biblical (as opposed to "Scientific"* or metaphysical) Christianity was disparaged as "old theology." A saying I heard several times was, "You're settling for a Volkswagen, when God wants you to have a Mercedes!"

*Christian Scientists put a number of words upper case, such as "Truth" & "Love," synonyms for God. When Science is capitalized, they are referring to Christian (or "Divine") Science, as opposed to lower, inferior, materialistic empirical science.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 05:06PM

I always wanted to shoot rubber bands and other objects into the mouths of brethren that were asleep on the stand. That would have made SM more bearable.

As deacons, we were dared to fall asleep on the stand while serving as the "Bishop messenger."

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Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 05:22PM

I think what sucked me into the great lie of MOrmonism is my trust in authority. I always trusted my parents and teachers because they never gave me any reason not to. By the time I heard about Mormonism I trusted that the leaders had my best interest in mind.

Trusting our elders and teachers is what allows children to learn quickly without having to suffer through years of trial and error. We are conditioned to trust our parents and elders because it saves lots of time and trouble. It also saves us from many dangers. This is why children are so incredibly vulnerable to abuse. They just don't see it coming. And when parents are the abusers the poor kids lose their ability to trust anyone. They can become fearful, anxious, angry, and abusive themselves.

I think learning to question authority is the greatest lesson any child can learn. In my era of childhood we were taught to respect authority. I think that respect should first be earned. Asking a person in authority to prove themselves worthy of trust is an important life lesson. Skepticism is a healthy mental attitude. Too bad it was knocked out of my early childhood development. It was originally there but I was taught not to pay attention because I was a child and elders knew what was best. Not always true.

Repeating my testimony didn't make it any stronger for me. It was seeing people I respected and admired repeating theirs that impressed me. The only reason I didn't freak out in the temple ceremony the first time was seeing a really sober, serious man I knew, who was a Harvard graduate, sitting across the room and acting like nothing was amiss. Since then I've learned that just because someone else believes a lie doesn't mean the lie is true.

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Posted by: quinlansolo ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 06:07PM

I'm sure you are one of the multiple great people. Believing in Mormonism is making you guys live rest of your lives in Cognitive Dissonance. If you can find any solace in the fact that you are not alone in this, good for you.

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Posted by: cinda ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 06:44PM

I am a nevermo so your posts do not push any buttons with me as they may with others here. I am curious, however, why you post here on a site for "recovering ex-Mormons"?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 07:18PM

It's a parody, Cinda.

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 01:26AM

Told in the tradition of Joseph's tall tales. Hey, it could happen. If I bear solemn testimony of flying butt monkeys, who's to say monkeys won't fly out my butt?

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Posted by: Honest TBM ( )
Date: May 22, 2017 01:05PM

I think you should ignore this poster named summer once you have thoroughly read the reports I intend to discuss right now and here.

It is true that this RfM website has some people who think what I write is parody. That's because they think that the LDS church may not be completely honest and truthful on everything; and that thus it can't possibly be the true church. If they were correct that the Church is deceitful and not transparent & honest with their members & the world on things they I'd concede that what I write is all make-believe parody. However the proof on this is in the super completely honest and transparent reporting that the Church makes about their finances, statistics, and history. All it takes is a few minutes of clicking some buttons at lds.org to find out for yourselves whether these critics are correct or the Church is correct. If you look at the Church's website to do a few minutes of research and come away thinking "gosh what a totally honest, transparent, and truthful church that is so straightforward in proclaiming the truth on all things" then you will probably start to think that these critics are foolish people.

If the website navigation ends up being poor then I suppose the accountability may be upon the webmasters or those accountable for ensuring they make lds.org an effective missionary tool so though you end up being sent on a path to be thrust down to hell for eternity then maybe God will make it up to you and give you free salvation and thrust those ineffective lds.org content managers down to hell instead. Oh the marvelous joys associated with the wondrous teachings we have about Judgment Day and other principles of the glorious gospel.

In the meantime I should start looking up those lds.org website links on how marvelously current & living our content is so I don't look like a total idiot to the critics. Having a living prophet presumes that the website content ought to be pretty up-to-date in addressing current questions/issues that members, investigators, and others seeking the real truth face every day. If the Church wasn't so awesomely good at addressing these questions then we'd certainly have a hard time saying we are led by continuing revelation through a living prophet.

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Posted by: Honest TBM ( )
Date: May 22, 2017 01:13PM

As soon as you read those current reports/content then please start ignoring summer and other naysayers. Its disappointing how some can ever get the idea in their head that the Church is not the most transparent and completely honest institution in the world. Well of course it must be the most transparent and honest institution ever if its to be called the true church :) That's why I think every news reporter in the world should contact the missionaries every day and publish a front page story or headline broadcast story about how truthful and honest the Church is on their finances, activity statistics, and anything in its history/doctrines.

And that's another wonderful thing about Mormonism. Any of you ever heard the song "How Firm a Foundation" or the Primary song about the Wise/Foolish men who built their houses upon the rock or sand? What helps secure reliability and a future for the Church is in the faith/hope for people to believe that the Church's doctrinal foundation is solid/firm/strong :) Suppose if the Church was built on a foundation of Jello Doctrine where its leaders try to wiggle around issues and not be straightforward? Well that would be disastrous. No siree the wise man builds his house upon the rock :)

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Posted by: DumbLawyer ( )
Date: May 19, 2017 11:10PM

O.J. Simpson kept telling himself that he didn't kill Nicole. After several thousands times repeating something you can start believing anything.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 10:41PM

A moment after he’d dispatched his wife, Harold said to himself, “I’m innocent. I have done nothing wrong.” He repeated those words like a mantra as he wrapped her up in an old blanket along with the garotte. She’d put up a struggle, but there was no blood. The floor was clean. The place was spotless, and Harold was innocent. He had done nothing wrong. She’d wanted to drive up to the Sierras for some time. He put her in the trunk and took her there. It was understood that it was a one way trip for her. There wasn’t a thing wrong with it.

Each morning when he arose, Harold remembered to remember that he was innocent of any wrongdoing. He reminded himself at work and at dinner and at bedtime. Even when he didn’t have to, he did it anyway. I’m innocent. I’ve done nothing wrong.

The police called him in for an interview. “We’re going to use a scanner headset on you,” said the cop. “I’m required by law to explain the procedure to you. It is noninvasive and painless. You may feel a slight sensation from EMF waves, some people do. Your brain activity will be located and determined to be either memory or a creation, which is what a lie is. So we’ll just put this headset on and ask you some questions, okay?” Harold nodded and let a tech guy put it on him. When they turned it on it hummed, and he thought he felt something like a breath of air breezing through his brain. It was kind of pleasant. And the technology was infallible, so there was nothing to worry about. The cop asked him some basic questions like his name and address. Then the tech guy said the calibration was done. The cop leaned in dramatically and boldly asked, “Harold, did you kill your wife?”

“I’m innocent,” said Harold, “I’ve done nothing wrong.” The cop looked at the tech, and the tech shook his head. The cop repeated the question and got the same result. Harold was released with an apology, which he graciously accepted.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: May 22, 2017 01:07PM

Brilliant, don.

And exactly how people beat polygraph tests.
They can only detect (sort of) when people don't themselves believe what they're saying. Not whether it's "true" or not :)

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 12:54AM

Fake it until you make it. The story of mormonism.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 03:32AM

My father said, "why can't you just get dressed right and go to the meetings? After a while you get used to it, and it seems normal."

He answered his own question and didn't know it.

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Posted by: Gheco ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 01:04AM

Direct instructions from a religious "leader" to break a commandment.

Thou shalt NOT bear false witness.

No spin can change this.

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Posted by: Heretic 2 ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 04:58AM

Isn't it immoral to traffic in stolen goods?

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 07:36PM

... and bank robbery is found in the commiting of it. Lie, lie, and lie. Lie until you believe your own lies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2017 07:37PM by azsteve.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 07:48PM

Oh really! That explains why I never bore my non-existent one.

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 10:14PM

Chicken Little: "The sky is falling, the sky is falling".

Q: Was C.L. right?

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Posted by: Honest TBM ( )
Date: May 22, 2017 12:46PM

If you believe that Packer was telling the truth then of course it must be true if Chicken Little says it unceasingly that the sky is falling :)


Tears flood my eyes as I ponder the sacred phrase in Article of Faith #13.

"We believe all things"

Brothers and sisters, we do not call this "delusion thinking". We call it a basic article of our wondrous faith :)

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: May 20, 2017 10:43PM

Another factor is the desire to conform, to please, and even to convince oneself (as noted by others). "Sister So-&-So, would you like to give a testimony next sacrament meeting?" The good sister now has pressure to present a testimony. Dare she refuse?

This is common in many high-pressure groups. Nor is it restricted to religions! People may feel compelled to proclaim political, social, vocational, psychological, or cultural verbiage to assure others (and themselves?) that they belong.

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: May 21, 2017 01:44AM

If you can fake a morgasm, you can fake anything.

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Posted by: DumbLawyer ( )
Date: May 21, 2017 04:45PM

That was very funny. How are you defining a Morgasm?

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Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: May 21, 2017 04:54PM

It's when your emotions go over the top over churchy stuff. Not that it's something to make fun of. The people who are faking it are in it for themselves. The people who aren't are being taken for a ride. Either way it's a shame.

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: May 21, 2017 01:56PM

I thought I posted the following, but in that it hasn't shown up here, I shall try again.

How about Chicken Little?

He born his testimony that "The sky is falling, the sky is falling".

Did that make it true?

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Posted by: Honest TBM ( )
Date: May 22, 2017 01:16PM

We believe all things. Now that is not considered "delusional thinking" within the glorious gospel/Church but a very basic part of one of our sacred beloved Articles of Faith :) See AF 13.

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