My TBM brother claims that both our mother and father have contacted him in the temple to say that the church is true, to thank him for having them dead dunked, yada yada yada. Neither of them were Mormon. In fact, both were strongly against TSCC, and lamented his joining. Naturally, I think it's B.S. But I'm curious what everyone's experience and beliefs are, so if you'd take a minute to respond I'd appreciate. If you want to elaborate or share personal stories, that'd be cool too. Thanks.

1) did a deceased person ever contact you while in the temple?
2) did you believe deceased people could contact you in the temple?
3) did you ever tell anyone that a relative of theirs had contacted you while in the temple?
4) did anyone ever tell you that a relative of yours had contacted them while they were in the temple?

Yes, my mother and brother said the same thing when they dead dunked my atheist father.

He had listened to the missionary lessons 2 and a half times before I was born at the behest of my mother and pronounced it bullshit. He maintained his opinion for another 40 years until his death.

But he has now accepted the "gospel". sigh

Oh, I just remembered. The reason he didn't accept the "gospel" here on earth is because he wanted to drink coffee. Yeppers, he was so weak he couldn't give up coffee to join the church that he already knew was twoo. (rolling eyes)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2017 11:28AM by lillium.

and tell them that your parents came to you and told you that they'd never join such a religion. It goes both ways. He thinks the temple is sacred. You don't.

I had a friend tell me that in the next life, she can tell me, "I told you so." I told her that I could tell her the same thing. She didn't expect that. Over time, she and I have come to a point of she allows me to believe as I believe and I allow her to believe as she believes.

Your brother seems to think he has the upper hand. He doesn't.

If I had been on my toes, I'd have told them that the spirit they felt was my father's poltergeist trying to drown him in that damned pool.

I've also had people tell me I might be surprised when I die. I think they might be surprised at which one of us is surprised.

Most times I've been to the temple, I've shaken hands with the nearly dead.

Did I feel something special sometimes, doing the work? Yes. I'm sure it was only because I cared, not because of any kind of merit in the ordinances. We all know the latter are completely bogus. My DW once saw an angel floating up by the ceiling. It that's for real, I'd chalk it up to adults visiting a children's tea party.

LOL

1) no
2) no
3) no
4) yes -- and like you, I gave it no credence whatsoever.

Same Same here.

I know people who claim to have seen the spirits of those they were doing "work" for in the temple and also claim to have heard the singing of angels.

My mother passed away shortly after my birth.

When I entered the celestial room at the young age of 19 I looked all over at each person in the room.

My father asked who I was looking for.

I told him my mother.

He pointed to my step mother.

I said no. MY mother.

He said it doesn't work that way.

So I said rather loudly. Then why the hell did I just go through all that?

It was a DEAD END for me.

Yes to #1,2,and3. When we were in an endowment session and I was doing the work for my husbands' deceased sister who had died when she was 25 years old giving birth. I'm putting on my stuff and unbeknownst to me, my veil was on backwards. So I heard this soft female voice call me by my first name and simply said: "your veil". I checked it, sure enough, it was backwards. I can only chalk it up to delirium from hunger because I was looking forward to going out to eat afterwards.

The temple matron claimed that spirits swarmed around the font constantly hoping to hear their names. As a twelve year old, the whole event and especially that old biddy gave me the heebie-jeebies.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The temple matron claimed that spirits swarmed
> around the font constantly hoping to hear their
> names. As a twelve year old, the whole event and
> especially that old biddy gave me the
> heebie-jeebies.

That was very similar to my experience, Cheryl. As if the spirits would know which temple to haunt.

When I read "contact with the dead at the temple" I thought this would be about attempting to talk to the temple workers. I really thought that the guy giving me the olive oil treatment and the new name was going to be needing his new name for real at any moment--bless his heart.

I have had Mormons tell me on occasion that they've seen dead people appear to them in Mormon Temples. My personal belief is that these types of experiences, whether it be a deceased husband or wife appearing to a spouse, the Virgin Mary appearing to Catholics, appearances of Satan, demons, or Jesus, etc. are most likely mental projections generated by individuals' conscious or unconscious underlying beliefs.

But some of course, will have other explanations, such as: the images seen are actual spiritual entities who are exactly what they appear to be. But then, how does a Mormon, for example, explain a Roman Catholic seeing an image of the Virgin Mary, who assures the Catholic that that that Church is true? And of course, a fundamentalist Christian might believe that when someone sees Jesus, it is really Jesus, but that any visions seen by Mormons or Catholics are probably demons appearing in disguise to reinforce people's dedication to heterodox forms of Christianity.

commongentile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My personal belief is that these types of
> experiences, whether it be a deceased husband or
> wife appearing to a spouse, the Virgin Mary
> appearing to Catholics, appearances of Satan,
> demons, or Jesus, etc. are most likely mental
> projections generated by individuals' conscious or
> unconscious underlying beliefs.
>
> And of course, a fundamentalist
> Christian might believe that when someone sees
> Jesus, it is really Jesus.

To the first part, which I excerpted, I agree. I think the cultural milieu a person has been involved in is more likely to induce such experiences. Thus, Catholics see Mary, Jesus, and canonized saints, Mormons see relatives, and those in Sanateria see any number of mystic beings.

To the second part, I respectfully take exception. Such visions are really not a part of the Fundamentalist and Evangelical culture, and run contrary to elements of theology they share. Should such a Protestant claim some spectral experience, I would look for previous involvement in a vision-accepting belief system, psychological issues (e.g. narcissistic attention-getting), and/or confused doctrine.

It's interesting that Mormons don't report visions of Mary or some saint, and Catholics don't report visions of JS or EL-ron Hubbard or Mary Baker Eddy.

Incidentally, Christian Science founder (foundress?) Eddy was quite involved in Spiritist circles during the time she was writing Edition 1 of "Science & Health," and once "channeled" her very beloved, but deceased, brother Mark Baker. More suprisingly, the "voice" that came out of her was very masculine, and told the other people in the seance not to believe her!

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To the second part, I respectfully take exception.
> Such visions are really not a part of the
> Fundamentalist and Evangelical culture...

I'm not so sure:

http://formerfundy.blogspot.com/2010/03/visions-of-jesus-throughout-history-and.html

That article is including Christians from both millennia, of all sorts of theological persuasions and cultural milieux. I was talking about Fundamentalists and Evangelicals. Although I did not refine it, I will say I am primarily referencing the Western European and North American Protestant traditions of the 20th and 21st centuries.

Now, thanks to the internet, you may find some, as you apparently take great delight :) in contradicting me. I'll stand by my assertion that these are rare, and of those who show up, I would want to inquire about their previous experiences in vision-believing groups, psychological issues, and their theology.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...you apparently take great delight :) in
> contradicting me.

Educating. Providing information. Opening minds to facts.
Can't imagine why that's "negative." :)

(*pounds heel of palm to temple*)

OH!!! Now I get it: You're educating me, giving me the correct facts, and TRUTH!! How could I have been so ignorant, so misguided, so WRONG! My mind was a locked box at the bottom of a swamp, and it is now open.

Now that I know you have the Truth, I will forever be in your debt. Thank you, oh Enlightened Swami of Pure Reason!

His mother, grandmother, aunts, uncles and other church members did claim to see spirits from the beyond.

Some of them see the devil regularly trying to entice them to sin. One aunt said he was totally red with a long tail and a square cube at the end of it. She saw him in the church walking from the front door to the pulpit where the minister was preaching.

Can't even escape the devil while seated in church...

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> commongentile Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My personal belief is that these types of
> > experiences, whether it be a deceased husband
> or
> > wife appearing to a spouse, the Virgin Mary
> > appearing to Catholics, appearances of Satan,
> > demons, or Jesus, etc. are most likely mental
> > projections generated by individuals' conscious
> or
> > unconscious underlying beliefs.
> >
> > And of course, a fundamentalist
> > Christian might believe that when someone sees
> > Jesus, it is really Jesus.
>
> To the first part, which I excerpted, I agree. I
> think the cultural milieu a person has been
> involved in is more likely to induce such
> experiences. Thus, Catholics see Mary, Jesus, and
> canonized saints, Mormons see relatives, and those
> in Sanateria see any number of mystic beings.
>
> To the second part, I respectfully take exception.
> Such visions are really not a part of the
> Fundamentalist and Evangelical culture, and run
> contrary to elements of theology they share.
> Should such a Protestant claim some spectral
> experience, I would look for previous involvement
> in a vision-accepting belief system, psychological
> issues (e.g. narcissistic attention-getting),
> and/or confused doctrine.
>
> It's interesting that Mormons don't report visions
> of Mary or some saint, and Catholics don't report
> visions of JS or EL-ron Hubbard or Mary Baker
> Eddy.
>
> Incidentally, Christian Science founder
> (foundress?) Eddy was quite involved in Spiritist
> circles during the time she was writing Edition 1
> of "Science & Health," and once "channeled" her
> very beloved, but deceased, brother Mark Baker.
> More suprisingly, the "voice" that came out of her
> was very masculine, and told the other people in
> the seance not to believe her!

Yes! My wife's aunt saw the Blessed Virgin in her empanada..

My dad's sister claims to have met up with Richard M. Nixon at the Manti temple. That's pretty close.

He saw them with his spiritual eyes.

About 20 years or more ago, my dad died and my mom was sealed to him about a year or later. I stood in for him at the temple, and trust me, marrying your mom for your dead dad is more than a little weird.

Anyway, after the sealing my wife saw a guy going down the escalator in temple that she said looked like my dad and thought it was a "confirmatory vision."

Fast forward to about 3 years ago when we both came out of Plato's cave and realized it was the LDS bull shit cult and bailed forever. After leaving the cult and coming to her senses, my wonderful wife was really embarassed about her "vision," and realized it was just her emotions etc. She had shared her vision sometimes and now realized she partly did it just to show the other cult members how spiritual she was etc. She is usually a very solid critical thinker, intellectually humble person etc., but was emotionally caught up in the moment.

Imagine this: - me marrying my mom and it makes my wife get so emotional she sees a vision...AND...at the time we think its all sooooooo wonderful. Jesus H Christ!

The "force can be strong Luke." F-ing cult



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2017 05:51PM by perky.

Could his death have been faked? Unbeknownst by everyone? I actually saw a man who not only looked like me, wore the identical suit, moved his hands exactly as I did, wore identical glasses, hair was brushed exactly the same. Only difference was his accent.

Well yes, a dead family member DID contact me in the temple. It was my Aunt Mable. She wanted me to know that she knew that I had jerked off in her guest bedroom when I stayed at her home back in 1969. Then, my dead Uncle Frank showed up and told her to give me a break as I wasn't the only one who had used the spare room.

They got into a terrible fight! Alfred Kinsey then appeared and told them both to knock it off, and that he had scientific evidence that masturbation among men and women was healthy and normal. Meanwhile, I forgot the new name, and Peter Baker showed up and told me to get my shit together as it was his Endowment I was doing and he couldn't concentrate wth all the shouting.

Finally, the presiding temple worker pounded his cane on the altar and told us all to just get the fuck out of the session!

Okay, so I lied about the Uncle Frank part...The Boner.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2017 08:04PM by BYU Boner.

That was cute ( and funny). Too bad Jerry Springer wasn't there. It'd be one of his all time best episodes..

This gets me confused again about the Spirit World and the various Kingdoms we go after we die/after the resurrection.

Where the hell are we, what are we doing, and what is the actual difference between being in a Spiritual Waiting Room and having a "resurrected body". Wouldn't being a sentient spirit, unbound by a physical body, be *much* better?

Makes you think they made all this crap up and then had to go back and re-jigger it to make some kind of sense...and I'm not just talking about mormons.

when reports of such contacts are made it seems to be either of relatives or of otherwise good, decent (now-dead) folks.

Never hear about any contact with Hitler or Stalin or Jack the Ripper, do you.

Funny, that 'aint it ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2017 11:39PM by quatermass2.

I watched John Dehlin's multi-part interview with the woman who may be the most famous living anti-Mormon, Sandra Tanner. Towards the end of the interview, Mrs. Tanner said that her recently deceased husband, Jerald, appeared to her. Apparently it was a very moving experience for her, and she was close to tears as she told about it. She said that she then went to talk to her pastor, because as an evangelical Christian, it was contrary to her theology to believe that a dead person could return in that way.

I was reminded of this when I read caffiend's posts about such visitations being contrary to evangelical and fundamentalist Christian theology. On the other hand, though, when in college I knew students in Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship and Campus Crusade for Christ. And I met a young man who was a kind of advisor to one of these groups. One day I heard him say that Jesus had recently appeared to one of these students. And I wrote about a lady in a recent thread who, along with her husband, believe they will not need their cemetery plots because the Rapture is imminent. She also told me that when their son was a child, Jesus used to appear and play with him. Could it be that at least a few evangelicals and fundamentalists believe that Jesus could appear, but would deny the possibility of any genuine communication from ordinary deceased folks?

You bring up a few questions, Commongentile, all interesting.

Please note that I stated I would want to inquire about the previous religious associations of a person who claims a splectral experience, the psychology, and the theology. Allow me to add, "the authenticity."

First, what was the phenomenology of Sandra Tanner's experience? I was not there, but I tend towards the skeptical--but I am not an absolutist on that. I have to allow for the possibility that it really occurred, as she described. (I might check that interview out.)

Second, reinforcing (but not proving) my skepticism, I note that her husband was recently deceased. This reinforces my suspicion that this was a psychological experience. Lastly, her previous religious associations (LDS) gave her a predilection to accepting such experiences as authentic, along with her then-current one (Church of Christ), IF I HAVE THAT RIGHT. (Correction requested as necessary.)

I'm not sure Mrs. Tanner is an Evangelical, but I don't know her beliefs and experiences, except that she and Jared were pioneers in exposing the maze of LDS fraud and belief, and for that I have the utmost respect for and personal gratitude to her. Her soteriology (doctrine of salvation) is valid, as far as I know, and I regard and admire her as a sister in Christ.

Regarding the adviser to college Evangelicals who reported that some student had an appearance of Jesus, I tend to be extremely skeptical--this is 3rd or 4th hand, and no specifics. Reports of Heavenly visitation do occur among Evangelicals and Fundamentalists, but I think they're quite rare, and readily explained.

CommonGentile (great moniker!), were you CS and fellowshipping with IVC and CCC? Just wondering. I did, a little bit, in college in the 1960s.

caffiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CommonGentile (great moniker!), were you CS and
> fellowshipping with IVC and CCC? Just wondering. I
> did, a little bit, in college in the 1960s.

Yes.

In some of Bart Ehrman's books, he has said that he believes Christianity got started because some of Jesus' followers believed that Jesus was raised from the dead, due to having seen him, apparently alive, after his death. As an agnostic with atheist leanings, Ehrman does not believe that Jesus was actually raised from the dead, but he believes that it is fairly common for people to see convincing visions of dead people, and that there is no reason why the disciples and other followers of Jesus could not have seen visions of him which made them think that God had raised him.

and says she believes Emma speaks through her.

Does that count?

No, to all 4 questions. However, I heard a number of stories of other non related persons.

However, when studying medium work I believe I had communication (dreams/visions) with a number of my relatives and some close friends.

They all congratulated me for recognizing and taking action on the 'fraud' of Mormonism, that they didn't recognize when they were living.

I guess all my brothers and sister do not now believe in Mormonism. However, they were not aware of the 'fraud' until I showed them where to look.

Now they suffer the same pains I do of seeing so many of their kids and grandkids being 'brain washed' by Mormonism and having minimal success in 'waking' them up to 'Mormonism'.

spiritist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However, when studying medium work I believe I had
> communication (dreams/visions) with a number of my
> relatives and some close friends.
>
> They all congratulated me for recognizing and
> taking action on the 'fraud' of Mormonism, that
> they didn't recognize when they were living.

Interesting that Mormons sometimes report that spirits of their dead relatives appear to them in the Temple and thank them for baptizing them into the one true Church, etc. While spiritist has had communications from the spirits of his dead relatives, thanking him for recognizing the fraud of Mormonism and taking action against it.

commongentile stated: Interesting that Mormons sometimes report that spirits of their dead relatives appear to them in the Temple and thank them for baptizing them into the one true Church, etc.
__________________________________________


Actually, I was in the church a long time and was in over 10 stakes and many wards and 'never' heard a Mormon with a 'spirit experience' that even inferred 'Mormonism' was true. The majority of 'spirit experiences' I ever heard were safety 'warnings' or providing 'helpful' information (many in family research) and never anything about the 'church'. Yes, 'spirits' seem to be interested in us, especially when we appear to be interested in finding out something about them.

One Mormon I know in a gym was telling about all his 'spirit experiences' of which he had many. He claimed only 1 inferred the church was true but after going through it with him the statement the 'spirit' supposedly told him was true, was in fact true but it had nothing to do with telling him the 'church' was true. He was a 'high counselor' and it was a pain in the 'butt' to try to get him to stick to the basic story as 'normally' spirit communications are very brief and to the point ------ which he was not.

He made the leap from a 'true' statement in the BoM means the BoM is 'all' true!

Logically, one would think that if being in the 'only true religion/church/etc.' was so important, that is what most 'spirit communications' would consist of. However, in my experience in Mormonism and based on my study of 'spirit experiences' across the world, it is apparent 'religion' is not important. Most 'claimed' communications across the world involve 'warnings' and 'information' and have 'nothing' to do with a specific 'church or religion'!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2017 11:46PM by spiritist.

My cousin's daughter died when she was about 3 years old, this was a very traumatic event and she told stories about my dead grandfather coming to the hospital to take the child away. She saw my grandfather and the child several times after that. My cousin's mother had severe mental illness problems and likely caused an accident that resulted in herown death, that was maybe 15 years after my cousin lost her child. My cousin's husband was always fooling around and finally ran off with a neighbor woman, my cousin slowly healed from all of that and married a non-mo from California;, she moved away and lived in NORCAL for many years until her second husband died. No visitations from the dead for many years now, and all of her children and grand children seem to be out of the Church.

I think there was a cultural thing in the 60s about visitations from the dead, especially in the temple, I remember many stories in my home ward. Have never heard of one recently.

Here are links to some online articles about apparitions which may be of interest to readers of this thread.

Theories about Collective Apparitions:

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/theories-about-collective-apparitions

Ghosts and Apparitions in Psi Research (overview):

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/ghosts-and-apparitions-psi-research-overview

Why Do Ghosts Wear Clothes?:

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/why-do-ghosts-wear-clothes

Interesting articles.

Even when I see 'spirits' in visions/dreams they are clothed to the extent I 'see' their bodies. Normally, I only see or concentrate on the upper part of their bodies.

Sometimes my guides appear in a robe but most of the time 'spirits' appear to dress in 'modern' clothing.

1. I only found that being in the temple felt like being in a tomb.
2. The bible WARNS about contact with the dead and King Saul paid heavily - losing his throne - for having a medium "call up" the Samuel. IOW the idea of TSCC of feeling the dead spirits is anathema to the Bible.
3. Without being in the temple I felt my mother at her funeral because she had always said that she, as a former school teacher, would be taking attendance and heaven help anyone not there who should have been. Interestingly, she had specifically told our oldest son that he and his family were given permission not to be present because of the cost of a trip from Utah and they had been visited recently. She also had set forth the entire service including the singing of Presley's "Love me Tender" with just a slight change. The minister permitted it because she had put everything in writing! Our children were a small choir singing "Amazing Grace". I gave the eulogy.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2017 11:01AM by rhgc.

I did a sealing session with my friend for family names. I convinced myself I saw some of their spirits sitting on the chairs during the sealing ceremony. Looking back, it was just me deluding myself and wanting so bad to have a "spiritual experience". Now, I realize the whole thing wasn't real.

to see or somehow sense one or both of my grandmothers, who were very special to me. My father died when I was fairly young, and my mother was the least nurturant person ever born, so what love and nurturing I got came from my grandmothers.

Because I was on "high alert" looking for contact with my grandmothers, I missed a lot of the nonsense going on around me. When it was all over, and we were being hustled out, I felt like crying with disappointment. On top of that, I was, of course, expected to be glowing with that special, post-Morgasm radiance.

I felt betrayed, lied-to, and let down. Nothing they had said was true. I think that first temple trip was the beginning of the end. I went once more, just to be sure I hadn't missed anything worthwhile, and only felt disappointed again.

I was a university-educated adult, sure. But I had been told by several people whose integrity I had trusted, that they themselves had seen loved ones who had passed on. Why shouldn't I have expected the same?

It felt eerily similar to having been cheated on in marriage. It does a number on your self-esteem as well as your ability to trust others. Not good at all.