I stumbled upon this website while researching Provo, Utah. I won't give too many details as I'm paranoid of this getting back to my prospective employer. I have a job offer from a local tech start-up. The company's mission is a great fit for my professional and academic interests, and my wife and I (and our 2-year old daughter) are looking for a new adventure after spending nearly all of our collective lives on the East Coast. Based on everything we've read on CNBC, CNN, Forbes, and every "quality of life" ranking, Utah seems like a dream come true for a young family. Low taxes. Affordable housing. Good schools. Beautiful scenery. Upwardly mobile workforce.
Yet none of these sites seem to talk about the "indigenous" population. I've seen the Musical, South Park, Orgazmo, Vice videos, and many other parodies and documentaries, but never actually met any Mormons. Can't even say I've met the missionaries on the streets, though according to LDS websites you have a large presence in my area.
We never saw this as an issue since we were always considering a move abroad. We always saw Utah as a "country within a country" - Quebec in Canada, the Basque region in Spain, or Bavaria in Germany - still in the country, but just different enough to maintain a unique cultural identity. I think that's cool.
I've spent the past week reading posts on this site (along with Ex-Mormon Reddit for the funny memes) and I'm thoroughly intrigued (and horrified).
My question is this - can a well-educated NeverMo yuppie thrive in the Moridor? Would love your insight.
Just received a love tap by my wife who's by my side while I write this post.
Should we stay for an extended period of time, say 5-10 years. What are the public schools like for non-Mormons? What's the quality of the pre-schools and private schools? Non-LDS youth activities?
Yes, a well-educated NeverMo yuppie can "thrive" in the morridor.
However, you'll have to "thrive" in spite of the local populace -- not because they support you.
You will be "outsiders." The odd-folks out. You'll likely be initially greeted very warmly, as the local mormons see you as a "new prospect." Once they find out you're not going to become mormons, that reception will likely cool significantly. To the point of being downright frosty.
I wouldn't put too much in the "good schools" idea, by the way. Academically, they're OK, a bit above average but nothing great. Socially, they're heavily mormon, to the point of that being a real issue for any non-mormon kids in them. Oppressively so.
You *can* thrive there. You'll have to work at it, and put up with a culture around you that doesn't *want* you to thrive unless you join the club. If you can manage that, go for it. I tried...I moved there (as an ex-mo) thinking I could pull it off. I lasted a year, and couldn't stand another day. Your mileage may vary.
As I said previously, we'd consider a move to Utah as a move to a foreign country. We have no expectation that we'd integrate into local society and would consider ourselves as semi-ex-pats.
Schooling is a major concern however, should we stay longer term.
You neglected to mention to OP that you are an extremely left wing individual, to the point of being on the outer fringe of contemporary politics. A person holding such questionable views will not do well in Utah.
I don't know if you have other jobs offers or good prospects, but Utah has a few issues besides the culture. Right now the housing market is expensive relative to salaries. Also, read up on the air quality issues Utah is dealing with.
My feeling is that a never-Mormon has it easier here than an apostate Mormon. Like, if I drank coffee people would freak out but for a never Mormon it's just normal.
Also, there are 3 places I keep hearing of as the craziest in Utah for over the top Mormonism, Cache county, Davis county and Utah county (where Provo is). Utah county is also known as Happy Valley for all the fake happiness Mormons portray.
I'm curious about your "fake happiness" comment. Growing up in wealthy, white suburban NYC, I feel that "fake happiness" is a constant state of being. That's part of what I want to leave behind.
My wife and I want to break free. Maybe part of that is distance from what we know.
Also, I want natural beauty! I want to be able to take a hiking trip without a $200 Zipcar rental.
Not really. Honestly I feel I'm the last person from my cohort to not make the make out West. Most went to SF, but other did Phoenix, Boulder, Seattle, and Portland.
There's so much money chasing so few ideas right now. Not too hard to land a tech startup job.
I am not originally from Utah but graduated from BYU and afterwards lived in Provo for a long time. It's a weird, insular place. Even to many Mormons.
If the job is enticing, you may want to consider living in SLC and commute down (the reverse commute would make it somewhat bearable). It's a COMPLETELY different experience for a non-Mormon, especially in the Sugarhouse / Yalecrest / Foothill areas. I live close to the University of Utah now and love everything about the area (and all the non-locals that have moved here, but even the Mormons are much more relaxed about things here). The schools are good, there are good private schools, and the cost of living for you coming from the east coast is still very reasonable. Chances are, you'll pay a half to maybe even a third of the property taxes you pay back east, even here in the heart of SLC.
Even just living in Sandy or Draper (part of SL County) and commuting down would be better for both you and the kids than Provo.
Sandy would be manageable, IMO. I have plenty of non-Mormon friends there who like it. If you had a place in the east side of Sandy, the commute would be 10-15 minutes longer than what the map shows, due to how the surface-street traffic is in that area. That's actually the same length as from my house in Yalecrest (a neighborhood built in the 1920-40s with a lot of tree-lined streets and charm). If you're up for a 50 minute commute, you can look at a lot of different areas in Salt Lake county. Negotiate a two-day work from home arrangement and you're golden.
My son and dil went to school for 4 years in Provo. They both grew up in Seattle.
They then moved to NYC while he went to Columbia. They loved NYC, but wild horses couldn't drag them back to Provo, and they are very very mormon. Dil even has several relatives that live in Provo that she hesitates to visit because they can't stand Provo.
They were very bothered by the lack of diversity. Seattle is a bit of everything, and I think they just thought that was the norm everywhere. They were naive when they moved to Provo. NYC cured some of that:)
If I could move anywhere out of those cities you mentioned, it would be Portland. I love that place. It truly has it all. After that it would be Seattle (where I live), and Provo would be a desperation move. I could have a lot of hangups because of my mormon connection though.
Do you have time to visit before you move there? If so, you should.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2017 07:03PM by janis.
The Mormons will go after your children non stop. You must inoculate them with some good facts regarding the Mormons and cults in general and arm them with some good critical thinking skills.
Otherwise you are going to end up sitting outside the Mormon temple while one of your children gets married inside of it.
Mormons are your best friends when they have converting you in mind.
You are smart to not go into this blind, but that should be true of anywhere. There are no guarantees that it will be the best for you family no matter where you go.
So, either Utah firms are making an aggressive play in the hope of a bigger future market, or they're setting themselves up for a massive disappointment, but trying to lock-in latent.
There will be a new charter school starting up in Provo next year called Ivy Academy. It would probably be a great place for your kids. I personally know the founder/principal very well (not a mormon) and her whole life is so devoted to education and the mission of this school will be quite different. I know how hard she has worked for this and it is her dream to be able to take a new and proven approach to education. Inclusion will be important.
I am a nevermo...but one of the things I have learned from this board is that you will very probably have to pay special (and continuing) attention to your daughter's peers (as well as the parents of those peers), and to your daughter's feelings as a result of those peers.
She will likely, at least sometimes, not be invited to (for example) children's events that her classmates are going to (like kid's parties at private homes)...
...and, on the other hand, she likely WILL be invited to children's (and teen) events which would serve as ways to recruit her into "the" group.
As she grows up, there is a high probability of her feelings being hurt (even by those she considers close friends) on many different occasions because of the simultaneous expulsion and grooming. Although "getting your feelings hurt" is a near-universal experience for all kids growing up, nevermo kids growing up in highly-Mormon communities seem to experience this much more, and more intensely, than would likely happen elsewhere.
Thank you. This is one of the biggest fear my wife and I have.
Ex-pat parents never think "oh no, my kids are going to learn these crazy values from the locals" when they moving to China, Japan, Dubai, Brazil, etc.
But in the U.S., they probably could. The culture is just close enough that it should be a worry.
That said, I'd love my kids to adopt the LDS work ethic if they could reject the dogma. From what I've read, you guys rock.
moCurious Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ...the LDS work ethic...
That work ethic is heavily based on the belief that prosperity equals favor from God and has been earned by righteousness. To be — or to appear — less prosperous than one's neighbors means one is sinful. So Mormons work their asses off to be able to give a chunk of earnings to the church and still have enough to afford the trappings of success (often going in debt to do so). It also has to do with having more children than they can actually afford.
I have many friends that loved their work experience in Utah, all while their spouse and children suffered the pressures of navigating Mormon culture day in, day out in school and the community.
I have had long experience with people moving to the area and it seems to come down to how social they are and how much it bothers them that many types of status are reversed. The lower your social needs, the more you will like it, because being excluded won't bother you and for the most part mormons will leave you alone. Streets are clean, taxes are reasonable and plenty of outdoors to recreate in. On the other hand, if it sticks in your craw that no one cares about your opinion and that you have no say in the government or schools, and wonder why you aren't invited to event x,y, or z then it likely isn't for you. As for the schools, they are generally safe and predictable but not particularly innovative or concerned with critical thinking to a significant degree.
Utah is a beautiful state, and where I'm planning on retiring to in several years. Sure it's predominantly LDS in the outlying areas, but they aren't 100% of the populace or workforce.
If you're going to work for a startup, and you're already hired, right away you know you weren't passed over for a church member. That's to your company's advantage.
My maternal grandparents were never Mos who raised their children in the Morridor. Grandpa worked for the railroad and was a Mason most of his life. Grandma devoted herself to her children until she was able to go work for the federal government - a job she held for 20 years until she retired.
They were relatively happy and secure where they lived.
They raised their children Protestants.
I have a couple of nieces living in Provo. One of them is inactive and a RN. The other works at a local department store. She left Mormonism and now worships as a Baptist, in the heart of Provo.
You'll meet other people who aren't LDS if you move there, or inactive, ex-Mormons like some you may find here @ RfM.
Overall, Utah has its pros - enough for me to want to retire there eventually - even despite its flat tax across the board. :)
The Provo/Orem area is strange, like other's have said, even by Mormon's standards. People are very uptight, and in everyone's business.
You haven't mentioned if your wife is planning on working in Utah. Working conditions for women are very challenging. It's still the 1950's in many peoples minds. Men should make more than women as they are the main breadwinner. Women should stay home and make babies. If they have to work, they're inferior creatures. It's pretty omnipresent in the thinking and culture.
If you decide to take this job, I strongly recommend you do not move out of Salt Lake Valley.
Every place, including Utah, has it's pro's and con's. I was born and raised in Utah and for me, one of the pro's is the beautiful scenery. You've got desert, beautiful mountains and forests, and the one-of-it's-kind red rock wonder of Arches National Park, and Zion's National Park. If you like the great outdoors, then you'll love it here with fishing, hunting, skiing, hiking, or boating. Schools aren't bad, but our daughter and son-in-law are planning to have our grandson attend private schools when the time comes. Approximately 60 percent of Utah is mormon (not sure if that percent is both "active and not active"). For me and most of our family, the pro's outweigh the con's.
and Cache Valley is NOTHING like Utah Valley (someone up above said it was). Lived here for over 30 years and I've been mormon and exmormon here. But CV is FAR from Utah Valley.
My boyfriend can't stand mormons. The company he works for has international holdings, but the people who work with him used to work for the 2 companies before this one and have been bought out. They've been there forever and they think they KNOW how things should be run. They make it difficult to be successful. They drive him nuts. AND he was targeted for missionary work the first year he was here. Once they had him give a presentation on Judaism to a group at church, they dropped fellowshipping him.
The reason someone above said NOT to look South of Provo is because that is a very, very mormon territory like Springville, Nephi, Payson, etc. EXTREME mormonism that direction. You have to go North of the Point of the Mountain. You don't want to live in Alpine or Lehi or Pleasant Grove.If you live up in the Salt Lake City area, they have more private schools.
Oh, if you register on this board, you do have an edit function.
I should add that my boyfriend LOVES the skiing and the scenery, the fact that golfing is quite inexpensive. He loves hiking and camping and kayaking. I live 1-1/2 miles from a canyon and he lives on the bench and has wonderful views. the mountains in Utah are beautiful. Provo Canyon is really beautiful, as are Big and Little Cottonwood Canyons in SLC. My aunt lives at the mouth of Cottonwood Canyon and skiing is 20 minutes away. My boyfriend lived here over 30 years ago and that is when he started doing all these activities. There is a never-ending number of outdoor activities here. His season pass at the local ski resort (in Cache Valley) is $300. Last place he lived was Colorado and it was a lot more expensive there. And housing is much less expensive than many areas. His house was a great price in a very nice area. I know prices are more expensive South down in the SLC area.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2017 04:02PM by cl2.
P.S. In the last few years, Mormons have come to believe that uncovered shoulders are a gateway into porn and immorality (because uncovered shoulders are thought to encourage sexual thoughts in males, of any age, who see them).
Because of this, school dress codes have shifted to clothed-shoulders-only (no sleeveless tops allowed), and school photos (such as high school graduation photos) have been photoshopped so that previously bare shoulders suddenly appear sleeved and opaque. There have even been random reports of parents being publicly shamed in some way because their toddlers are wearing summer tops which show bare shoulders.
There are other oddities which occur from time to time (the liquor laws in Utah are a perennial favorite topic), but as a prospective resident of Utah, potentially moving to Utah with a wife and a daughter, you should be warned that bare shoulders have, in recent years, become a cultural no-no. ;)
I had not heard this before. My relatives in Utah who are inactive or non-Mormon wear what they like. I did when I lived there. Was/is there a dress code for sleeveless if you haven't taken temple vows? This is news to me.
I've seen sleeveless @ LDS church meetings where I've lived whether Utah, California, or New York. Granted they weren't again TR holders. But they were female.
Schools aren't that persnickety in Utah last time I checked. Please tell me it ain't so!
BYU has a strict dress code, granted. Does that spill over into the wider community?
I attended Ogden High school my junior year. We had no such rules about dress codes when I went there.
And to photoshop bare shoulders out of past yearbooks? That sounds beyond tacky. Someone in Utah has way too much time on their hands if that's the new past time.
Amyjo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I had not heard this before. My relatives in Utah > who are inactive or non-Mormon wear what they > like. I did when I lived there. Was/is there a > dress code for sleeveless if you haven't taken > temple vows? This is news to me. ......... > Schools aren't that persnickety in Utah last time > I checked. Please tell me it ain't so! ......... > And to photoshop bare shoulders out of past > yearbooks? That sounds beyond tacky. Someone in > Utah has way too much time on their hands if > that's the new past time.
I moved here in 2002 and had no idea what I was letting myself in for. The Mo is everywhere. It's prevalent in every workplace (watch your senior managers defer to some office nobody because they're more senior in The Cult), every neighborhood and every school. Your kids will be approached, pressured, picked on and judged until they either cave in and become Assimilated or seen as a lost cause and then shunned.
I've received hand written letters from neighbors about how we need to be 'saved' because we: drink coffee/beer/swear/have tattoos/bare shoulders/work on Sundays blah blah blah. In laws that accuse me of being satan and many, many other things.
That said, if you can put up with this nonsense the area is not a bad place to live as long as you stay away from Utah county and south of there.
The hardcore Morgbots here are some of the worst people I've ever encountered. Given I have lived/worked in 4 continents and half the states in the US, that takes some doing. But according to them, they're the best people they know. You don't have to ask, they'll tell you. Repeatedly.
". . . . never actually met any Mormons. Can't even say I've met the missionaries on the streets, though according to LDS websites you have a large presence in my area."
Sounds like you know just enough to evaluate the mormon "work ethic."
Get out to Provo. I think you'll fit right in and enjoy it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2017 05:01PM by thingsithink.
The schools may not be stellar in Georgia, but they were a LOT better than they are in Utah. My kids were reading great by the end of kindergarten (normally around a 2nd grade reading level). My youngest that is now in kindergarten is barely just able to read 200 some odd words and MAYBE an easy Dr. Seuss book.
I AM lonely here. There are a ton of visits from Mormons, and they seem nice on the outside, but no one wants to actually be a good or close friend. It is incredibly lonely. Prepare your wife for that. It seems everyone wants to be your friend, but not REALLY BE your friend. Hard to explain. I just have no close friends here.
Maybe it's just me, my southern Baptist upbringing just doesn't connect with the Mormons.
So, maybe it's different with others, and people get really close here. I just haven't...it's the worst part about being here.
The work environment is actually not bad. I haven't had any sexual harassment, or anything like that. This is actually a great thing, at least where I'm at. On the otherhand, I'm pretty sure I'm making 2K to 3K less then my male peers who do the same job and the exact same thing I'm doing.
From the sounds of it, that shouldn't be a problem with your job.
Taxes were lower for me in the South. Neighborhood laws were better as well (city ordinances were better and you didn't have a LOT of nonsense that some of the city ordinances are composed of in the Morridor). I suppose it depends on where on the East Coast you are coming from. The taxes are probably cheaper then NYC or Washington DC and the like, but higher than some of the states with lower taxes to begin with.
Yes, Utah is affordable and can be quite beautiful. But you would be moving into the heart of Mormonism. We've had stories shared on this board over the years of Mormon parents who will not let their children play with non-Mormons. Or if they let their children play with yours, it will only be at *their* house where there will be no heathen coffee, tea, nor alcoholic beverages.
We've had stories of non-Mormons who have been frequently harassed by the police in Provo because they don't fit the Mormon mold.
Neither of the above might impact you and your family, but it's something to think about.
You mentioned some very pleasant places where your colleagues have found work. I lived in Boulder for eight years, and it was heaven on Earth. The lifestyle there is fantastic. Housing prices in Boulder have gotten insanely expensive, but the outer 'burbs have very nice houses that are affordable. I would not buy in the foothills due to forest fire danger. I would live in Colorado over Utah any day of the week, even if it is more expensive. Portland or Seattle could be workable as well. I wouldn't consider SF/Silicon Valley due to the housing costs and long commutes.
I would never move there and I'm going crazy in Idaho after just 4 years I hope you can handle weird people and shunning you'll be a lone fish this ain't the east coast. I've worked in Baltimore and long island and I'd rather be there than Provo.
Living in Utah is different than Idaho, by degrees. Pocatello is more isolated where you are than south of there like Salt Lake City and Ogden area. They are more culturally diverse IMO.
Provo, well that's a different story, but close enough to metro Salt Lake City that if it was too homogenized in Provo to live. One could make the commute without too much hassle from the greater Salt Lake area. Although I hate the traffic there.
It's too congested for my liking. And I hear the air inversions still hang over the city, making breathing more difficult for allergy sufferers.
You'd like St. George, Adam. It's very cool and eclectic. Has a college crowd too. Dixie has a reputation as a party school for Mormon kids getting away from their parents for the first time. Not unlike other college towns that aren't LDS for that matter.
I met 20 and 30 something young adults when visiting in January who moved there from Salt Lake City to get out of the cold climate up north. They were pretty friendly overall.
You are wise to research this before you say yes. My husband got a job in Utah in the 70s when we were young and had a 3 year old. We are from the NY/NJ area and had never met a Mormon. We lived in Salt Lake which I hear is much better for nevermos now, but at that time everything was under the control of the Mormon Church, especially schools and activities for kids. I got pregnant with my next child, the grant my husband was on the U of U ran out(early computer graphics) and we knew we had to leave. We did not feel we could raise our kids there and went back east. We loved the beautiful mountains, and the outdoors but did not think it was good for our children to grow up in that atmosphere.
During the time we lived there, we had zero Mo friends, just exmos and other nevermos, including one of the few Black families who lived on our street. In order to educate myself about Mormons I read "No Man Knows My History" by Fawn Brodie and was appalled. We lived just up the hill from the Temple and I used to walk down. The old geezers in Temple square thought my cute little blond boy was a future missionary and said so! Not knowing what went on there at the time, I assumed the Temple was like a beautiful cathedral for all those weddings. Was I in for a surprise!
From what I have heard, Provo is still much more Mormon than Salt Lake. If you interact with Mormons you and your child WILL be pressured to join. It can be very stressful. Think long and hard about this move.
One of my half-nephews was attending UofU mid to late 1970's in Computer Science. He is Catholic (mom was LDS, dad was not, long story.) Wonder if your husband and him might have known each other? My nephew is a couple of years older than I am. Nice looking man, 6'6", who married a petite woman who is 4'11".
He's still there in Salt Lake City area, having worked for the same company for the past 40 years. It was the only job he's held since he graduated from college.
I am a never Mormon who moved to Utah for a job. I live in Davis County, the other side of SLC from the job you are looking at. I haven't had any significant problems with most of my neighbors, almost all Mormon. I do find my friends all seem to come from Salt Lake City proper though! I worked for a national company, and I never have had any real issues with Mormons at work. I would highly recommend you find out about the principals at the start up though. You can look at their LinkedIn and Facebook profiles. If they are all BYU grads, I would recommend going somewhere else. You will always be the outsider. If you do take the job in Provo, make sure you don't live there. That place gives me the willies every time I have to drive there. Full of plastic surgery women and multi-level marketing types.
As for schools, there are some quite good private schools though the best can be pricy. It still seems odd to me that there are no public preschools and the kindergartens are only half day. If you both work, I think you will have an easier time than if one of you stays at home since most of the Mormon wives stay at home. It is harder (not impossible) for a SAHP to find compatible folks. However if you are into outdoor activities, there really aren't many better places to live. There are very active groups of people involved in the outdoors, both formal groups and more casual meetup groups.
In summary, I have been here 5 years, and I get along just fine. The local politics are infuriating, but the mountains and deserts make up for a lot. Good luck with your decision.
People are going to have strong feelings about this issue on this website. I'm one of them. I was born and raised in SLC and moved away from Utah years ago. There is no amount of money or job that would entice me to move back to Utah. The air quality is lousy, the social environment provincial, and the liberal perspective oppressive. Maybe the one exception is Park City - but - you enjoy the outdoors and also want a great place to raise a family? Go to Colorado or Oregon.
You will be moving to a foreign country. You will always be viewed by neighbors, colleagues, supervisors, law enforcement and store clerks as foreigners. If you have any trace of a New York accent, your language will give you away. You will not know how to dress like a Mormon native, and won't want to.
You will be lulled at first by the overt cheerfulness and friendliness of the Mormons, until they figure out that you have no interest in joining their church. Then you will be limited in your social life to other outcasts (never-Mormons and apostate Mormons) in the town. They will actively avoid you and any contact with you.
You will not get equal treatment at work, in city and county offices, or at the schools. Your kids will not have any playmates.
Look for a job in Portland, Seattle, ANYWHERE else!
The very fact that you're here asking about it should speak volumes. This is not an expat move (I lived abroad a total of six years in Europe). These are not people who speak a different language, and eat different foods (but are otherwise normal, well-adjusted people). The majority of them ascribe to Joseph's Myth, believe they are better than you (and your wife and children), and believe it's ok to give you short shrift at every turn because you're under the control of satan and are less worthy than they are.
Your wife will likely be miserable, and your children will be pressured to join and/or be shunned (as will you and your wife).
I'm surprised that so few have pointed out that you will likely be shafted at work too. If there's any Mormon influence at all, you will be passed over for any and all opportunities, as long as there is a "worthy" member to give a leg up to.
And if you give in and join, you'll still be looked down upon as converts, and the religion will make you miserable while expecting you to pretend to be happy.
Sure, you can go out of your way to try to carve out a non-mo lifestyle, but if you have other options, why subject yourself and your family to this lunacy? You can ignore it. Your wife may be able to (going back to your expat analogy, the most common reason for an international assignment to fail is not for performance, but because many uprooted spouses fail to adapt). Your children will not have the social skills and maturity to survive the shunning unscathed. I've seen kids, including my own, learn completely new languages, adapt and assimilate in new schools. But they weren't affected by a zany religious cult.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2017 08:45PM by nomonomo.
I've been rethinking the ex-pat analogy, and it sorta works if you were going to move to a totalitarian or theocratic nation, where you'd not only have to learn the new language and culture, but offer fealty and pay homage to an imaginary diety, and put up with stool pigeons and snitches poking their noses into every aspect of your life.
Of course, in Utah you'll be able to exercise your constitutional rights to live separately and do as you like, but Utah would [still] be a theocracy if they had their way (and some folks say in some places it still is). And they'll have other ways to give you grief too.
For example, if you're ok with the goons at "your" ward discussing you and your family, your personal business, making it official business to suck you in, then you might be ok.
And if they can't get you all, they'll go for individuals, like your kids, or your wife. If she becomes miserable, the RS will be there "for her." If they see you as the "problem," then they'll try to pull her away from you (fix her up with a worthy Peter Priesthood), and vice versa (they'll find a Molly Mormon for you, especially if you have high earning potential).
Your kid(s) will be invited to "fun" activities. They'll be the only kids not going. Unless they do, and then they'll be "loved" in.
Provo is a strange place to live, especially for someone that has no connection with Mormonism or the state. It's really a culture shock for some and there is an ugly underbelly there that others explained. The inversion is awful, just to warn you. One of the last times I visited in the winter, I woke up around 9 in the morning and it looked like 5 PM instead. If you have upper respiratory or some skin conditions, it can exacerbate them.
I think people can thrive and be happy anywhere under the right circumstances. Depending on your interests, there really is a lot to do in the area, especially if you're the outdoorsy type. Hiking, biking, skiing, swimming, camping, are all less than an hour away. There is a strong counter-culture scene if you're interested in that and a fairly big independent music scene if that's your thing. Some of the most intelligent, fun, and interesting people I know live there and I miss them everyday.
Go under cover, see what you think. One week visiting in Spanish Fork was enough to tank my Utah college dreams for-ever. Sneak into a Sacrament Meeting watch the people. Its surreal.
How you could live 5 to 10 years as a tourist without it taxing your joy of life or your wife, and get through it without loosing anyone or anything permanently, if not just marred and scarred by exposure to being the other, to being the out sider- in a place where every was speaking English, may have looked just like you, wore the same shoes to play golf and run, drove the same car might hurt. Its not like anybody's driving a horse and buggy so you know obviously you're different. Everyone uses the same cell phones as you. That kind of different outsider using the same products looks the same way speaks the same language - it can hurt.
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