Just curious I feel like I'm in a different world sometimes.

Howdy Badass, I don't know what you're referring to as deprogramming, but you're sure figuring out a lot of things quickly! A favorite metaphor here about leaving Mormonism is that one's shelf breaks.

I like that image. I was just putting things on the shelf, and then, without warning, the whole thing came crashing down! Fuck! I picked myself up, brush off some dirt, and then started looking around,

Holy fuck, I was in a cult! So, I started to leave the closet and walked outside into the sunshine. It felt good. But what about all the shit lying n the floor of the closet? Leave it there, get out, let someone else clean up the mess!

So, Bro, you may be feeling like you're in a different world. Bush yourself off. Look around, you're okay, just walk away from it and never look back! We've all been there.

Here's to you Adam!

I think I'm still in shock about what I was in and I keep revisiting those thoughts. And now I see my family differently cause they sti'll participate in those rituals and so does half of my town, its a crazy shock over and over boner and then I think this was going on when I was a kid as well and my mind can't handle it.

I hear you Adam. But, love your family as family. Don't let religion, or lack thereof, determine relationships. If they start talking about religion (or anything else you don't want to talk about) change the subject.

With the Mormon religion, you can say something like...I'm trying to get some aspects of my life figured out. I really don't want to talk about them, especially religion right now. If they press you, just say, I REALLY don't want to talk about religion!

As to the processing--it happened. Say to yourself, they're good people who did what they thought was best. I disagree with what the taught and did. I'm going to show my healing and moving on by living a life I define.

Remember, Bro, you're Badassadam, and you're fucking wonderful-- just the way you are. Sure, everyone's got some things to fix in our lives. Fix what you can, but more forward. Mormonism has absolutely no fucking power over Badasses!

Big Bro Hugs, Adam!!! Da Bone.

It sounds like you're experiencing a form of disassociation. Sometimes our brains can't handle a trauma and we disassociate to protect ourselves.

Yes, it's a crazy process and you might experience a whole host of hellish experiences.

You can make it through this.

I am known for dissaciotion that's why I see a trauma counselor but she's been out of town for a month so its been rough to stay in the present and not panic, why can't I be a normal person god damn it.

Disassociation as in "multiple personality disorder"?

No, dissociation can happen without having Dissocioative Identity Disorder or other dissociative disorders. As far as I still know, DID is still rare. It's just a "sexier" disorder and gets a lot of attention in media.

ETA: Now this is interesting- I thought it was a fairly rare diagnosis, but this site explains it not that rare.
https://psychcentral.com/lib/dispelling-myths-about-dissociative-identity-disorder/

And still other articles (not posted) I skimmed say it's still rare a rare diagnosis,so who do we believe is accurate? I'll have to comb through some APA journals when I have time.

Some people go through it to cope with trauma. I know that I have experienced it a few times to cope with severe experiences of violence and trauma.

http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/conditions/dissociation-and-dissociative-disorders
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/dissociative-disorders/what-are-dissociative-disorders
https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/dissociation-and-dissociative-disorders
http://www.isst-d.org/?contentID=76



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2017 07:58PM by Itzpapalotl.

Here's a link you might want to read, badassadam. It explains how closely PTSD is related to dissociative disorders.

https://www.sidran.org/resources/for-survivors-and-loved-ones/what-is-a-dissociative-disorder/
https://drkathleenyoung.wordpress.com/2010/03/20/understanding-dissociation/

I skimmed parts of the second one and this sprung out to me as highly relatable:

"Maybe you are so used to living with dissociation you do not even recognize it for what it is. It is important for you as a survivor to learn about dissociation, how it functioned as a protective mechanism during periods of abuse and how it isn’t so helpful in the present. This includes learning the early warning signs of dissociating for you as an individual. You can learn and employ grounding techniques successfully at that point."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2017 07:53PM by Itzpapalotl.

Oh yes. It can be crazyland for a while.

I was out in my late 20s, early 30s with 3 babies and a wife. First three years I experienced a lot of anger/confusion over why my many reasons for leaving weren't just so blatantly obvious to everyone.

Today, 17 years later? I still have issues with authority figures, over compensating for the servile ways of LDS culture.

Honestly though, for me and mine anyway, everything after LDSinc has been worth it, even the loss, even the pain.

Cheers to you, badassadam!

Human

Thanks for your post and yes everyone doesn't understand why I had to back a way either.

Part of maturity is coming to grips with the world is a scary and not always a safe place.

If that feels crazy compared to the Mormon bubble we felt protected in, well it is.

Alice in Wonderland, by Lewis Carroll is so popular for children and grownups alike because its major theme is the world is crazy, and normal is non-existent.

That's closer to reality than believing the world is sane.

Learning how to keep your cool when everything is falling apart around you, that you'll begin to appreciate the Cheshire Cat.

It's the Mad Hatter I fear the most. Racing against the clock, but never really feeling like he's getting anywhere. Time is not on our side, when one feels compelled to push the limits.

When you live in Pocatello, and are trying to deprogram, you are absolutely in a nether world. It's not all bad, I'd be spending more time at the university (or the movies,) if I lived there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2017 09:50PM by Amyjo.

I have been at the school checking out the classes the last few weeks so I do think that helps.

badass, as you know, I am a nevermo so have not personally been through the 'deprogramming' process, as you call it. I know only from reading this board for many years that the process is very different for each individual.

I hope you don't mind my saying that, from reading your posts over the past few months, I have gotten the distinct feeling that you began your process of leaving LDS, Inc. with an expectation that it would be somewhat similar to 'withdrawing' from a drug, i.e. that there was a predictable process, and timetable, that everyone could/should expect, with perhaps a few exceptions.

That's exactly what I thought and I would be my old self again after the withdrawals.

No, you will not be your "old self," nor would you want to be, because you have grown, changed and learned so much. You wouldn't want to lose what "awakening" will bring, nor would you want to be in the former, "numbed" state.

Speaking from the far side of trauma, you can and will find the things you've learned and will learn, especially about yourself, to he tools you can keep for the rest of your life.

Healing from abuse is like shoveling a huge pile of dirt out of your life. When you are ready and able, you deal with a few more shovel-fulls. The pile that remains gets smaller and smaller.

You will learn to avoid the sorts of people who would make that pile larger (toxic, harmful people), and attract those who will support and comfort you as you do the heavy lifting.

You are learning to deal with your feelings in the here and now.

You are a survivor, and you can do this. :)

That's how I remember it. Like falling down the rabbit hole. Joseph did what? And the church knows this? The skeletons are in their vault, but nobody saw nothin'. Ignore and obfuscate and hope nobody will notice. That's the best they've got.

It does feel like a rabbit hole and more truth is like shocks to the gut on the way down. I almost don't want to know anymore about what really went on back in the day and what goes on now behind closed doors.

programming is a crazy process.

The Relief Society manual and institute programs course manuals sat in one stack on my desk, with my journaling and scriptures, & stacks of psalms with new testaments in multiple linguistic styles wrangling with ideas jangling with differening puctation, jargon and diction got ,mgettin my attention, yet and gradually they, that stack got pushed to the back,gently pushed to the back and Sara b's book Simple Abundance sat in front. It opened a gentle rhythm of routine expectation that was no sin, to care and comfort and nurture myself and other family members/ even to love my husband quite differently. Which was an abrupt departure from a young l d s sacrifice / endure to the end tithe until you die mentality. Where temple garments equivalent of austerity and love scarcity sacrifice at high density, Sarah b's Book helped immensely to release me, gradually, like to think of it as an arms around big-hug Book instead of a free fall plummeting from the l d s airplane into first accepting, then expecting (while generating) life's comforts...as opposed to the relief society manual full of the sacrifices of pioneers /rent with commandments sin and Shame on you dammits applied liberally back when piled on stronger with ever hope of liberation.
The gentle projects expressed expectations of tiny pieces of life style through home stationing or prepared to staged staging is a better word, with the idea /novel to me/ of a setting prepared for comfort.
That you'd like.

Absolutely no relief society manual In the world advanced that idea in my life.

No sin.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2017 04:47AM by paintinginthewin.

badassadam, it was all you knew growing up. I wouldn't be surprised if you're from Utah or an area that is highly populated w/Mormons. It's different for everyone, but you are at the right place since it sounds like you need people who can relate to you and some encouragement as you move forward and start a new life out of the LD$ church.

It's funny, I was just thinking about you. I'm going through with my plan on getting baptized into the LD$ church just so I can see the temple. Where's pooped been? Every time I think about the temple, I think about the funny stint he pulled off inside the temple as an grand exit out of the church. I'm glad I met you guys, otherwise, I wouldn't have figured out how to cheat the tithing system for a TR.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2017 03:22PM by canary21.

I'm from Gilbert Arizona which is the salt lake city of Arizona so I'm told so yea surrounded by heavily Mormon area and it literally killed my soul when I was 17 and even then I knew something wasn't right with the church. But I came back later on like I said at 29 and thought maybe I'm wrong and so I just wanted to go do the temple thing and see if it was legit but the process was way to long and I couldn't answer the question about the 15 men being prophets without laughing so I just looked up the ceremony on YouTube and that was good enough for me to say see ya later. But good luck on your quest don't get brainwashed too bad or indoctrinated and don't give any money unless you go through the temple first but I don't think that will work they are smart bastardz.

Oh, I figured out how to cheat the tithing system in that one thread where pooped shared his funny exit story.

badassadam, have you thought about moving away? You should get rid of anything Mormon in your home. It's a good way to move past something and it'll help you to stop thinking about it.

I don't think about moving away like I used to but getting stronger mentally so I can stand my ground here it's important to me to not let my father affect me anymore or think he's above me he moved across the street and I'm not going to run anymore not this time. But maybe ill move later but now is not the time.

And I went through some of it again when my daughter decided to become TBM. And it happened again when she decided she was getting married in the temple. I didn't want to be there, but I had to deal with the whole idea. She didn't get married, but then she went through the temple on February 28th and that did a number on me.

I found the movie "Inception" about how my mind feels. I leaned over to my ex during the movie and said to him, "You mean other people feel like that, too?"

My mind was like that for a long time, felt like I was living many different lives. I'm a lot better than I used to be, but I still don't deal well with it when people call my ex my husband (as he still is). I can't go there in my mind as it is very traumatic to me. I have a very difficult time going into mormon churches, etc., too.

But it is possible to get to a point of living a "normal life." I function very well and I don't live in trauma constantly anymore.

That's all I want is a normal life I'm tired of getting triggered or traumatic thoughts setting me back I walked inside an institute building the other day and it was very traumatic for me I had to get out immediately, I'm glad I'm not the only one going through this.

because of my experiences in the mormon church and my gay/straight marriage. I can't deal with church leaders. I avoid church buildings.

I've been in therapy with an exmormon therapist (I've probably said that many times before) for about 18 years or more. I don't see him often now, but I used to see him about twice a week. With my daughter going through the temple, I had a few visits with him again.

I have made peace with my past where my "husband" is concerned and we are best friends. He and I share the house.

One of the most important things for me to realize is that church leaders didn't deserve my respect. I came here about 12 years ago and found the lack of respect for leaders shocking, but then I realized I had a right to be angry at them. It really was a great moment for me to realize that.

I know you've been in therapy. If the therapist isn't working for you, then find another one. Shop around until you find one that gets it. My nonmormon boyfriend can't comprehend what it was to be a mormon and he always says, "Go see Dave." I sit down and tell him what I'm going through and he zeroes right in on why I am. Take your time and don't force yourself to move too quickly through this process.

Reading here also was a BIG HELP. Most of us have been at least somewhere where you are. We "get it" to a huge extent. Keep reading. Keep telling us what you are going through. It will help. You can't really gauge where you are. There will come a day that you can look back and say "look how far I've come." My therapist used to get out the stages of grief and tell me where I was at as I felt I wasn't getting anywhere. And I felt I made so many mistakes along the way. I've been through a lot of hell over all this, may gay/straight marriage, and him leaving me. His boyfriend and him were very abusive to me. I lived in fear. I got to a point I couldn't even listen to the stupid voices on things like the voice teller as I'd think she was angry at me. I lived in fear of losing my house, how to raise my two kids. Their father was basically estranged from them. My family always came to me with their problems and were only there for me now and then. I took 2 of them in during those bad years. We were very alone. It took a long time to bail myself out of the debt I went into the first few years after he left me. I declared bankruptcy (chapter 13) and paid on it for 8 years.

But the sun came out. It took a long time. My boyfriend is a guy I wanted to marry at age 20. I'll be 60 in 2 months. I didn't marry him because he wasn't mormon. The things those damn leaders did to me over my gay boyfriend were criminal. I lived suicidal for years and years. Now I call it a "passive death wish." My life is good now. I still have problems, but they are bearable. Having a dog has been one of the most healing things about my life and the lives of my children.

Sorry so long. There is happiness to be found. There are still dreams to be had. I did take a break from anything mormon for many years because I had too many other things I was dealing with. One day, before I found this board, I realized I no longer believed. I had been inactive (because of the gay/straight marriage issues) for at least 10 years. One day I had an epiphany while out walking and it all fell apart. I was RELIEVED. I had tried for over 20 years to figure out the answers for the gay issue. It was so simple and yet the lds church made it so difficult. Nearly destroyed me.

They don't care about the individual. They only care about the bottom dollar. We are only pawns in their games. I never realized I could be FREE. My boyfriend was concerned about what it would do to me when I decided to resign. It has been NOTHING but a relief. Total relief.

I did a lot of walking with an iPod listening to my favorite music, which also helped a lot. It helped me clear my head. I know you have recently had surgery. I hope you can get out in the fresh air. I do know how hot it is down there. My boyfriend's mother and sister live in Mesa.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2017 12:58PM by cl2.

Stepping foot inside a Mormon church house in February this past winter was the first time I've been inside a Mormon meeting house since I left nearly 12 years ago.

I went to my cousin's funeral near Pocatello. Did not have anything close to a meltdown other than mourning my cousin's passing. That was hard enough for me to deal with, trauma wise.

Surrounded by Mormons was sort of bad, but because I was surrounded by family who knew me, and accepts me as I am, it wasn't painful nor did anyone try to preach to me or lecture me.

It's nice when your family respects you for the person you are, instead of someone they would rather you be. Likewise, when you can accept them where they are at, it's mutually rewarding.

Five years from now or ten, you can look back and see how far you've come. It will happen, and you'll be a wiser person for the wear.

I had been active and indoctrinated for a total of 50 years off and on, and I just found out the lies and cover-ups in the church about 2 years ago. I'm still trying to come to terms with it all, but I've been lucky to have most of my immediate family leave with me. I've learned 3 things: 1-Religion is one of the most suppressive forces on the planet, always pounding it in your head that you are never good enough. 2- We are wired to think this way from early childhood on. We need to re-wire our thinking and change our thoughts. 3- You are a great individual on your own, without religion butting into your life, dictating how you should think or feel. I won't go into an LDS building anymore, not even for a funeral. We send flowers instead. In fact, we did that just last week and had the flowers delivered to the home.

Flowers are a wonderful idea!

The whole trip to go to my cousin's funeral was both unexpected and very expensive.

Was just contemplating this the other day as more of my cousins are aging, and my remaining siblings. What to do?

Can't afford to pick up and fly to each of their funerals, assuming I outlive them. Plus, I still need to pre-plan for my own because I have no one to do that for me.

My cousin was an exception because she was a lot like my daughter has been toward me, with her mother (her mom is my first cousin, but the one who died is actually closer to me in age.) I went to support her mom, and be with her siblings (we grew up together.) I needed whatever insight I can find to help me with my own daughter who is on her own, having severed ties with me and my family (like my cousin did with hers many years ago.) It isn't hereditary between them. Both had/have different debilitating illnesses that have kept them from living life fully.

Both my cousin as my daughter put the responsibility for their shortcomings squarely on each of their moms. Not really fair for us, but something we've each had to live with. My cousin broke down at her daughter's funeral. She had the luxury of doing that, which is something I don't envision for myself since my daughter is living overseas and doesn't want us to know her whereabouts. I've learned where she's living through friends of hers who've relayed that to me she knew from high school.

I won't go near an lds church either its been critical to my recovery I think, the damage that is being done within those walls is crazy.

I suffered from PTSD from childhood and the cult made my condition worse. For me the trauma from the cult was a kin to spiritual rape. Being stripped of my dignity, and not found worthy of being told and taught the truth year after year and on and on. Being lied to under the guise of being heaven's helpers, and exploited, abused, misused, etc. How dare they?

You may have heard about the stages of grief and loss. It sounds like you are moving through the stages. I am, too. The pain still is deep and unlearning and detoxing from the abuse, etc. will take time.

Yes it will take time but I just want to speed things up and it just ain't happening, I'm tired of feeling like this cause I dont have a whole lot of support as I try to regain some of my normal self and maybe live a normal life that I never got to live. I have PTSD as well and I really don't know whats buried in me but I know the church is one of the culprits same with family so I have had to find new supports which has not been easy. And plus I have some physical pain which doesn't help either. Fuck this road is hard.

Hi Adam, the road IS hard, Bro, but you can make it. It's a cliche--but true--take it one day at a time. The present is the only reality, not the past, not the future.

My demons come out at night, Bro. Right now they're quiet. When they come out, I allow myself to cry hard--let it out, because I know I'll feel better. The next mornings nag is generally better.

My hope for you, Badass, is continued healing, joy, health, friends, and all things good. A big cyber hug!

Thanks boner, nights are the worst for me as well I try to keep the tv on and watch YouTube till I sleep but its still bad sometimes. I keep thinking things will get better if i keep trying to fix each issue but it just seems so impossible after each problem fixed theres another one. So I'm just like fuck just fix me miracle man in the sky haha.

Adam, you don't know me, but your posts touch my heart--I care. You're hurting and lonely. I wish I could fix these, but I can't. But, I can hope with you. My sincere desire is that you know there are people who care about you here and all of us hope you're healing and in recovery.

Yeah, just fucking heal my friend! Just fucking get healed. One more time--I'm Badassadam, I'm quality stuff, I'm hurting right now, but, I'm going to get better. You're fucking right! I'm going to get better. And them I'm going to live my life as I define it. My life is going to have lots of friends, good times, laughter, and fun! Fuck yeah, Adam!!!!

Once the enzyme(s) in the brain shut off in PTSD, pain management and staying clear of triggers becomes a lifelong journey. The cult is a trigger. PTSD has many levels and needs a multi-level approach to healing.

I see