Not the Mormons, although they may be next.

From Reuters News: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-religion-jehovah-s-idUSKBN17M1ZT

"Russia's Supreme Court ruled on Thursday that Jehovah's Witnesses was an "extremist" organisation and must hand over all its property to the state, Russian news agencies reported.

"Russian authorities have put several of the group's publications on a list of banned extremist literature and prosecutors have long cast it as an organisation that destroys families, fosters hatred and threatens lives."

Notice the justification: it is " an organisation that destroys families, fosters hatred and threatens lives."

Sounds like our view of the Mormons, doesn't it?

As much as I despise JWs, this is a very worrisome precedent.
Who decides which cults (and as I mentioned in another thread, I consider all religions cults) are "extremist" and which aren't?

It's a level of state control I worry about. Not just in Russia, but everywhere -- including in the US, where certain sects of Protestantism are often considered "holy," and others are not. And the decision about which is which is entirely subjective.

Let an educated public decide. Don't try and force beliefs or lack of belief.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
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> It's a level of state control I worry about.
> ...

Exactly. Me too, and not just recently.

This is extremely pertinent right now, alas. For example, too many prominent members of one side of America's political divide want to follow POTUS in going after a certain media outlet, solely because they believe that outlet cost them the election. It didn't, but that's beside the point. The point is, if you go after one what happens to the rest?



> Let an educated public decide. Don't try and
> force beliefs or lack of belief.

I don't believe the public is educated enough, not by a long shot; but that isn't relevant. Educated or dumb as bricks, I'd rather not have power seeking to legislate belief or the lack thereof.

God Save America

Human

All religions should be requured to tell the truth and to fully disclose all of their beliefs to a person before they join the church. By exercising objective standards of morality equally on all churches, the state should have the right to make their own determinations, and to shut down the cults, while not interfering with legitimate religions.

If the church were encouraging and sanctioning murders, they would be shut down. So where do you draw the line? Okay... so we won't allow murder, but we will let you get away with fraud(?). No, any criminal or civil offense should put an end to the church if it is institutionalized.

Russia doesn't allow missionaries. So the mormon church calls young men to become fulltime missionaries, ordains them as such, and then sends them to Russia anyway, calling them "volunteers". The church should be fined for that, and kicked out of the country. They are being dishonest and are committing fraud. There is no integrity in religion. It's all about what you can get away with.

No Steve, governments should not have that kind of power. Instead, government should commit the resources to educate it's populace with objective, secular knowledge and let churches compete in the marketplace of ideas without tax free status.

The Russian Orthodox church is enjoying a surge in power recently. I'm sure that's no coincidence.

JW's have already prior been banned in Egypt and an exjw explains the effects of that ban.

It's potentially a good thing in this Russian case despite the concern over freedom of religious rights/practices etc. JW's really are a dangerous and extremist cult that break up families, kills it's members (children included) over blood refusal in medical emergencies and causes suicides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmPxSEmcZSw

Despite JW's seeming nice and harmoniously family orientated, it's generally all a big lie and an act to recruit others. They are taught to lie if necessary and withhold any known facts to make the cult look good and it's called Theocratic Warfare.

Zeezromp Wrote:
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> It's potentially a good thing in this Russian case
> despite the concern over freedom of religious
> rights/practices etc. JW's really are a dangerous
> and extremist cult that break up families, kills
> it's members (children included) over blood
> refusal in medical emergencies and causes
> suicides.

Catholicism really is a dangerous and extremist cult that break(s) up families, kills its members (by prohibiting condom use and thereby promoting the spread of AIDS and STDs), and causes suicides.
Guess the government should ban them too, and take all their money, right?

Does that make my point about it being subjective?

Yes, I understand your point, but JW's have attracted the attention of the authorities and it's possible that as well as the death and carnage it causes those involved in it, it's likely also because of what they print in their Watchtowers (likely extremist anti Russian anti government propaganda)and may be seen as an attempt to undermine any loyalty to Russia, in favour of 7 BS American Cult Leaders in New York.

I know when I used to read them the watchtower publications, they slammed all human governments as Satanic and useless, slammed all efforts of any charities that clothed and fed anyone as pointless and instead claimed they should be fed with JW literature instead and save them with truth and not food. Pretty stupid really.


Did you watch the video about the effect of the Egyptian ban on JW's?
?

Yes, the first time the Catholic church protects any pedophile priest - as in shuffeling them to a different geographic are and keeping them as priests instead of excommunicating them, the church should ge deemed a cult and shut down (as in permanently kicked out of the United States). Where is the morality, damn it? Have zero tolerance and shut them down. The affect would be that no churches would choose to make the same mistake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2017 10:10AM by azsteve.

Like a lot of former communist block countries, russia is trying to resurrect some parts of it's old national, traditional identity.

Religions established in places other than russia will be viewed as carrying spies or 'subversive agents/provocateurs', the obvious reason being that this was probably one of the many ways a former soviet agent might infiltrate another country in the past.

One cannot really blame a country for wanting to keep foreign provocateurs out of the country, or a religion that will take money from the country and send it elsewhere - this is never good for any economy.

However, it is russia we are talking about - a favourite bogeyman. They frequently admit to doing things that most western governments also do (phone tapping, for example), but do not admit to their own citizens that they do.

Apparently part of this decision rests on the JWs declaring that only they have the truth.

If that is the criteria, it should be a piece of cake for Russia under the Putin dictatorship to ban the Mormon "one true church" as an extremist organization and confiscate their property as they have done with the JWs.

can't post it here but you can look it up -- very interesting.

Cumorah dot com reports that in 2010 JW's had 160,000 active members, compared to LDS's claimed 21,000 members, most of which are inactive.

I doubt the numbers have changed much since then...maybe LDS inc is no threat since no one is signing up anyway

Neither 160,000 or 21,000 sound like much of a threat. Perhaps the most important thing here is to remind folks that Putin represents a threat to those that step out of line.

JWs are begging for trouble going into Egypt where Christians who have been there longer than Muslims are persecuted.

Some whackadoodle come lately Xian cult doesn't have a snowball's chance.

It's illegal to be gay in Russia too.

It has a zero tolerance policy of whatever it deems to be deviant behavior.

"Be it enacted by General Assembly that no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of Religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge or affect their civil capacities. And though we well know that this Assembly elected by the people for the ordinary purposes of Legislation only, have no power to restrain the acts of succeeding Assemblies constituted with powers equal to our own, and that therefore to declare this act irrevocable would be of no effect in law; yet we are free to declare, and do declare that the rights hereby asserted, are of the natural rights of mankind, and that if any act shall be hereafter passed to repeal the present or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right."

Thank you Mr. Jefferson,
Author of the Declaration of American Independence
of the Statute of Virginia for religious freedom
& Father of the University of Virginia



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2017 12:07AM by BYU Boner.

BYU Boner Wrote:
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> Thank you Mr. Jefferson,
> Author of the Declaration of American
> Independence
> of the Statute of Virginia for religious freedom
> & Father of the University of Virginia

Amen, brother Boner!

I agree.

Amen!

Freedom is the ultimate boner!!

Human

The russians are eliminating competition to their state religion.

Well, actually, the mormon religion is indeed "Mud and Filth come to pervert the State"- I don't mean mormon people, so much! This is actually true, doctrinally- a chief reason for some thriving of it in the U.S.is the average lower intelligence of americans, generally- in a curse from the goddess Providence, their brains have devolved somewhat- for example, their anterior brains don't work as well as Europeans' and Russians'... The reason for this curse and slight de-evolution is the abominable behavior demonstrated by the Revolutionary War "heroes", the extremist radicals who in hot-headed impatience for Independence used a method rife with an inappropriately high level of violence and bloodshed! This curse is also a secondary reason for weak Fortune, Economy, etc. along with The Civil War, Vietnam, etc.! Due to weak Fortune, America has been a breeding ground for scam artists, such as Smith became; Perhaps one could say it was the adverse conditions which made him go corrupt and fabricate the myth of a Restoration Of The True Church...

Uhh, put down the crack pipe and move away from the keyboard. You'll feel better in about 12 hours.