Sorry-in-advance, Steve. Just trying to drive you a little crazy this Easter by telling you I do not take your anti-rantings too seriously, no matter how long you make them. (Sill, of course, you usually do have interesting things to share with the rest of we renegades, and we appreciate them.)

BTB, I'm invited to attend an Easter dinner party at my daughter's house today. She usually serves ham (of all things), but I don't eat it (even though I'm not Jewish--that's a joke son). I very seldom eat red meat.

Also, how come you don't opine against Easter as a Christian celebration, being that Easter (originally) was the title of a female circle of pagan dancers who performed these dances in the hope of getting pregnant. They say the Christians took-up this title as a disguise, in order to be able to meet safely together.

To the Christian's who read this: I hope your Easter day is very pleasant.

Why are you a Christian? Oh, could it have anything to do with the fact your born in a western culture to Christian parents? Na that's not it you must have been Muslium born in the middle east then converted.

polly not think!!!!

If there's anyone who doesn't rave, it's Steve Benson.

Really?

Really indeed. All rests in one's definition f raving.

Excessively long posts repeated over and over verbatim making fun of others and their beliefs meets my definition of raving.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 07:41PM by bona dea.

You have to separate the raving from the content - besides the raving keeps us coming back for more. Lol

This will probably get me deleted. Steve only cites sources that support his views and then pretends the issue is settled.Not honest. Re a previous thread. He cites Richard Carrier with no mention that he is a lone wolf and not taken seriously by more than one or two scholars. Carrier also makes a living off being a mythicist and has no other job. That makes him less than objective. He then claims that James the Brother of Jesus wasnt reallyJesus' brother because there was no Jesus, a view which almost no scholar accepts and then quotes Carrier who claims that all Christians were called brothers of the Lord. This is nonsense and neither Carrier or Benson offer any support for this view and virtually no scholars accept it. See the problem?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 10:14PM by bona dea.

None of us will ever fully understand the accurate history. It is just not possible.

I think we will see advances in science that answer some interesting questions.

At the end of the day, we all try and do the best that we can.

I'm not about to cite Thomas S. Monson, Jimmy Swaggart, the Pope, Jesus H. Christ or "bona dea" (especially since she admitted in a recent thread that she doesn't know what she believes).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 11:02PM by steve benson.

You could quote Bart Ehrman, an atheist, Amy Jill Levine or Paula Frederickson who are Jews along with a number of PHDs in history who disagree with you and your buddy, Richard Carrier, but you ignore them and pretend the issue is settled.

Oh, yes, you also take comments out of context. I said I dont know what I believe about religion. That is not the same as believing, along with virtually all scholars, that a real, mortal human being , Jesus, actually lived.I am pretty sure you know what I meant, but you would rather make points than be honest and engage in a real debate.

You start citing him, then. It's not my job to cite him for you.

Um, the post in which you said you don't know what you believe was in a thread about religion. Lordy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 11:25PM by steve benson.

Well, giving quotes that support only your view when the majority of scholars disagree, leaving out that very pertinent fact while then pretending the issue is settled when it isnt is not honest. Benson has a habit of doing that. Two good examples are mythicism and the cause of NDEs. Even if he turns out to be right, he is dishonest to imply an issue is settled when it is not.That is especially true in the case of the existence of Jesus where his view is widely ridiculed in academia.

assuming you can figure out eventually what it is.

By the way, I'm glad to see you're making progress in that area, given that you least admit NDEs are a myth. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 11:12PM by steve benson.

I admitted no such thing.I dont know what the cause of NDEs is. There are experts on both sides. Do you even know how to read? BTW, you are not supposed to post directly to me and I am not supposed to post to you per board rules. I mentioned you,which is a gray area, but did not post to you until you until you posted. If you dont like what I said and feel like I am in violation, you can ask administration to delete it. In the meantime, I stand by what I said and am done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 12:15AM by bona dea.

The militant atheist feel more secure in their worldview if Jesus never existed as a person regardless of divinity. The notion makes them feeeeel more secure in their worldview which is suppose to be scientific. However, the more passionate the atheist the more their judgment is clouded. Same as a bible thumper, you can't have it both ways. Inquiring into anything (NDEs & other "woo" stuff) that may undermine that worldview is ridiculed even if questioning and hypothesizing is founded in the acquisition of more knowledge. Ideologs cannot say "they don't know" to a question which might challenge their worldview. Think about it. Ask one what it would take for them to consider they might be wrong on a topic. It's like a Mormon pointing out issues with the church, its like pulling teeth.

The person in question never has taken time to question his own dogma in an honest way. It's common for an ideolog to claim certainty over the uncertain or answered.

Be it a Westboro Baptist, a Mormon, or a militant leftist atheist there thinking has been done for them. That is why these people are sooooo predictable. Like preprogrammed automatons which respond according to their programming according to their cognitive biases. When people are being objectively honest logical fallacies diminish in use, and people can admit to what they don't know and what is unknown - this is being open minded. Belief takes a backseat to the acquisition of knowledge and curiosity.

When the prophet, atheist, or cartoon artist talking head has spoken the thinking is done.

There is a lot of truth in that

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 08:39AM by steve benson.

spoken like a true militant bullshit artist.

By the way, I've got a much better quote for you on insecurity catalyzing dogmatism. I refer to it from time to time (including on this board) It's from Reinhold Neibuh, a prominent American Protestant theologian (1892- 1971):

“Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith but in doubt. It is when we are unsure that we are doubly sure.”

Chill out, "thinking." I'm not a dastardly doodler telling your posting head what to think. I'm just challenging your thinking. If you can't handle that, I think you might be in the wrong forum.

Think about it.

And by the way, your derisive use of the term "militant leftist atheist" betrays your personal political dogma, combined with your threatened sense of self, donchya think?

BOO! I scared you.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 02:32AM by steve benson.

Seriously how much Jesus Juice have you had this Easter? If you can't comeback with something resembling coherent thought step outside the tomb, take a leak, and call it a night. Maybe you'll rise in the morning with your brain resurrected?

An atheist can't be on Jesus Juice. He's on Brain Powerade There's a big difference.

It appears that what's actually leaking is what's left of your cerebral fluid, escaping from your ears. Think about putting in some ear plugs and calling a doctor in the morning.

And putting your arm to the square and commanding me to "call it a night" only works among the brain-dead in Mormonism and other cult faiths. Please try again later.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 03:12AM by steve benson.

Oh, I forgot. You don't really believe that because, like you said, you don't know what you believe.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 03:13AM by steve benson.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 11:48PM by steve benson.

IN ~












Wait ~ ¿ wut ? ~








Wait

I actually had another (more gentle) word than "raving', but I couldn't find out how to spell it.

When I think of it, I'll post it. :)

Raving in a nightclub?

Thinking of words to describe SB, raving is not one of them. Rave??

"She usually serves ham (of all things)"...

Why do you find that odd? It is the traditional meat served in the US for Easter dinner. In some countries, lamb is traditional, but the US is not a lamb-eating nation by and large.

And what exactly was your point? That Steve is being derelict for not complaining about the fakeness of Easter as a Christian holiday?

I'm an atheist. I had a lovely Easter, dinner and all. Even got to bite a chocolate bunny for Jesus. I will assume an atheist having a good Easter meets with your approval, or at least your tolerance.

Now awaiting the next first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox. We hit a trifecta this year - Orthodox Christian, Catholic/Protestant, and Passover all fell in the same week. That rarely happens. God gave three different implementations for calculating the date of the various religions spring festival. And each is convinced that the exact date matters, and that theirs is the only correct formula.

Which is weird.

If religion wasn't weird, no one would believe it.

He's just cleaning up after Ezra the daft.

But I do what I can.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 11:06PM by steve benson.

at least use the possessive correctly–-meaning, add an apostrophe to "steven bensons." I have no problem whatsoever owning it.

Methinks I've managed to send "pollythinks" into a raving righteous stink. One would think Jesus could take care of himself in this situation by coming on to the RfM board and striking atheists dead but since he doesn't exist, that kind of limits his followers' options. Who's gonna cast my evil spirit into a herd of pigs and send them over the cliff to drown? What to do without that abusive Jesus, what to do?

Happy kick-him-in-the-keister Easter! :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 11:43PM by steve benson.

My sister just me this quote: (Perhaps she thought I needed it)

"If you lose one sense, Your other senses are enhanced.

That's why people without a sense of humor, have an increased sense of Self-Importance."

Made me pause and am now committed to smiling and laughing at myths I use to believe. I do believe in laughter.

I have a sense of humor, thank you.I just dont care for Benson and his dishonest pseudo scholarship

I'm with you on that.

Thank you

So much for that sense of humor of yours.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 03:15AM by steve benson.

IF that were true, we'd still be officially practicing racial segregation in the United States.

Incidentally, I'm somewhat amused by the fact that you were always harping on not breaking "The Rule" that we shouldn't be interacting on this board, per a past Admin admonition, yet you broke that injunction here with full-throttle, full- thread force. It just goes to show that you don't know what you believe. :)

I'd call you out on your hypocrisy, but since you chose to bust the barrier, I'm game.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 02:03AM by steve benson.

The rule was not to address you or post in your threads. Nothing was said about mentioning you in response to a comment made by someone else in a thread started by someone other than you. As I said, you are welcome to report this and see if the mods agree and will delete it.BTW I most certainly do not believe the religious majority is always correct. Another example of your dishonesty.Thanks for proving my point. What I believe is that in academic fields such as history, the consensus of scholars,many of whom are not religious, has great weight and that their professional.opinion is more likely to be right than that of a cartoonist who thinks he is an expert on everything.

He said they're like pie crusts--made to be broken.

You and your religion-like rationalizations. Welcome to your rule-breaking rumble.

I'm not going to report you to Admin. It would only feed your crucifixion complex. Besides, you clearly know what you're doing. After all, it was you who said you'd "probably get deleted" for your posts here.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1965886,1966004#msg-1966004

Whatever. Good luck.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 03:16AM by steve benson.

I don't understand why people come on here just to pick a fight and keep it going as long as possible

Like a stomach virus or ringworm or something. Lordy mercy.

I expected this thread to be about people claiming that Mr Benson was the anti-Christ. Oh well...

. . . where I dared quote a Christian evangelical minister who rails against Christian practitioners of Easter rituals that are historically rooted in paganism.

Allow me to quote the pertinent passages, at the expense of the sensitivities of eager Easter beaver believers:

"The Pagan Origin Of Easter"

by David J. Meyer
"Last Trumpet Ministries International"
PO Box 806
Beaver Dam, WI 53916
(posted on RfM at: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1965910)

"Easter is a day that is honored by nearly all of contemporary Christianity and is used to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ. . . .

"Those who love truth learn to ask questions, and many questions must be asked regarding the holiday of Easter.

"Is it truly the day when Jesus arose from the dead? Where did all of the strange customs come from, which have nothing to do with the resurrection of our Savior? . . .

"The first thing we must understand is that professing Christians were not the only ones who celebrated a festival called 'Easter.'

"'Ishtar,' which is pronounced 'Easter,' was a day that commemorated the resurrection of one of their gods that they called 'Tammuz,' who was believed to be the only begotten son of the moon-goddess and the sun-god.

"[Pagan] Queen Semiramis also proclaimed that Baal would be present on earth in the form of a flame, whether candle or lamp, when used in worship.

"Semiramis was creating a mystery religion, and with the help of Satan, she set herself up as a goddess.

"Semiramis claimed that she was immaculately conceived.

"She taught that the moon was a goddess that went through a 28 day cycle and ovulated when full.

"She further claimed that she came down from the moon in a giant moon egg that fell into the Euphrates River.

"This was to have happened at the time of the first full moon after the spring equinox.

"Semiramis became known as 'Ishtar,' which is pronounced 'Easter'' and her moon egg became known as 'Ishtar's' egg."

"Ishtar soon became pregnant and claimed that it was the rays of the sun-god Baal that caused her to conceive.

"The son that she brought forth was named Tammuz.

"Tammuz was noted to be especially fond of rabbits, and they became sacred in the ancient religion, because Tammuz was believed to be the son of the sun-god, Baal. Tammuz, like his supposed father, became a hunter. . . .

"Ishtar, who was now worshipped as the 'Mother of God and Queen of Heaven,' continued to build her mystery religion.

"The queen told the worshippers that when [her son] Tammuz was killed by the wild pig, some of his blood fell on the stump of an evergreen tree, and the stump grew into a full new tree overnight. This made the evergreen tree sacred by the blood of Tammuz.

"She also proclaimed a 40-day period of time of sorrow each year prior to the anniversary of the death of Tammuz.

"During this time, no meat was to be eaten.

"Worshippers were to meditate upon the sacred m'steries of Baal and Tammuz, and to make the sign of the 'T" in front of their hearts as they worshipped.

"They also ate sacred cakes with the marking of a 'T' or cross on the top.

"Every year, on the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox, a celebration was made.

"It was Ishtar's Sunday and was celebrated with rabbits and eggs. . . .

" . . . [P]aganism has infiltrated the contemporary 'Christian' churches, and further study indicates that this paganism came in by way of the Roman Catholic System.

"The truth is that Easter has nothing whatsoever to do with the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

"We also know that Easter can be as much as three weeks away from the Passover, because the pagan holiday is always set as the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox.

"Some have wondered why the word 'Easter' is in the the King James Bible.

"It is because Acts, chapter 12, tells us that it was the evil King Herod, who was planning to celebrate Easter, and not the Christians.

"The true Passover and pagan Easter sometimes coincide, but in some years, they are a great distance apart. . . .

"We know that the Bible tells us in John 4:24, 'God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.'

"The truth is that the 40 days of Lent, eggs, rabbits, hot cross buns and the Easter ham have everything to do with the ancient pagan religion of Mystery Babylon. These are all anti-christ activities!

"Satan is a master deceiver, and has filled the lives of well-meaning, professing Christians with idolatry.

"These things bring the wrath of God upon children of disobedience, who try to make pagan customs of Baal worship Christian.

"You must answer for your activities and for what you teach your children.

"These customs of Easter honor Baal, who is also Satan, and is still worshipped as the 'Rising Sun' and his house is the 'House of the Rising Sun.'

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FCBg3GmzQM]

"How many churches have 'sunrise services' on Ishtar's day and face the rising sun in the East?

"How many will use colored eggs and rabbit stories, as they did in ancient Babylon?

"These things are no joke, any more than Judgment Day is a joke.

"I pray to God that this tract will cause you to search for more truth.

"We will be glad to help you by providing more information and by praying for you.

"These are the Last Days, and it is time to repent, come out and be separate."

*****


OMG, Christians calling Easter-loving Christians pagans!

So, what do the offended do? Instead of burning that heretical Christian preacher at the stake, they blame this inconvenient historical truth coming to light on an ex-Mormon atheist cartoonist.

Yeah, that's the ticket . . . to Hell.

Of course, there is no Hell. Gawddammit, the Christians lose again. :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 03:02AM by steve benson.

After reading his articles in another thread, I agree with Mr. Benson on some items.

I'm a Baptist, I believe in the Bible literally. So how is it that I can agree with him on some items.

I do NOT think there is ANY real, historical evidence that the New Testament or any of it is factual, especially in regards to miracles and the existence of many individuals within it according to our current scientific and educational abilities.

In this, I agree with Mr. Benson's assertions.

If one believes, it is due to FAITH, rather than what the world sees as scientific fact. AS far as the facts go, in regards to science, it is about as historically accurate as any other myth.

However, as far as FAITH goes, it is true. This means I believe the Bible, and I have faith in the New Testament. I have FAITH that Jesus is Lord and Savior, that through his grace we are saved.

I have no FACTS to back that up, nor that could convince anyone who is basing their ideas on proven historical methods or scientific theories.

So, odd as it is, I agree with Mr. Benson on the scientific and historical reality of whether there is proof or not.

I do NOT see it as a raving, or ravings. I see him presenting the facts and historical lights of our understanding. I agree completely with that, there is NO EVIDENCE. ANY evidence is based upon false assertions of those who are using their biased methods to try to show something out of items which factually are unproven. Hence, there is NO actual proof, evidence, or anything else. It has about as much evidence as the Greek Myths, the Roman legends, the Sumerian folklore, or any other ancient religion of which we now feel are simply fairy tales and stories of myths and legends.

Mr. Benson and I probably disagree on the existence and truth of the Bible, but that is based upon FAITH and OPINION, rather than science and historical understandings of our day.

I'm pretty hardcore Baptist in my beliefs, and I will say that we all can be saved if we believe in the grace of our Lord to save us, and accept his grace into our life.

However, I also see the other point of view and agree, there is no fact out there or evidence I can point to that will prove or show this other than my faith.

I suppose in this, we Christians are similar to Mormons in their belief in their Book of Mormon. We do NOT believe in their book, but they do. In that light, I can ALSO see how one who was burned, upset, or hurt by Mormons or Mormonism would also utilize that in their view on the Bible and Christians in general. In fact, in some ways it may be expected. Twice burned and you tend to do what you can not to be burned again. I would that others believe as I do, but I also can understand and see common ground, or at least try to see why and how they think how they do. (not always successful, but I can try).

In regards to the other definition...

No idea if Mr. Benson goes to raves. I think raves may not be his thing (he seems a tad more mature and maybe even a tad too conservative in that regards), and don't think he'd go around with spiked punch, meth, and glowing twirlies in the dark, but everyone does something for fun.

She seems to think she knows a lot about them.

Steve Benson criticizes christianity a lot more than he does islam or hinduism.
Yes, that is not fair, but for someone living in Arizona, it is understandable.
He doesn't know what it is like to have a 13-year-old daughter who gets called WHORE and SLUT in the middle of the street by total strangers for cycling to school in a skirt.

If he were living in the suburbs of Paris or Brussels, where lots of girls no longer have the freedoms that their mothers took for granted, he would probably balance it more between christianity and islam, but he still wouldn't pay much attention to violent buddhists and hindus attacking children on their way to mosque.

See what you get for assuming?

You'll just have to go to my cartoons to see my thinking from the ink bottle on this matter.

(By the way, I have done cartoons condemning the Islamic terror attacks in Paris and Brussels. You need to read more).



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 03:01AM by steve benson.

Steve are you still having a sordid affair with your own voice? Is this how a man of your talent spends his time, on the internet arguing with people over stuff you apparently no longer believe in? I love how you always act like you are beyond reproach every time you are questioned.

Must be a Benson thing.

Lose the chip on your shoulder Steven and drop the ego, this website isn't about you so quieten down a touch and let other people enjoy the forum without having to climb over your vapid ramblings.

Or better yet, stick to drawing cartoons.

activate your hot button. Sounds like you were hit with a poked-in-the-middle-of-your-eyeroll thing. Did you not see the memo that entry into thread territory is a voluntary matter? I didn't start this one. Defenders of pagan Eastery did. No one is making anyone read it. Don't like it? Then, good grief, do a flyover.

But if you really want to try dictating thread content that otherwise causes your eyeballs to vibrate and dilate, you might want to think about reapplying for membership in the Mormon Church where you could become an eye-roller controller of your own Gospel Doctrine class, knowing how to quote the prophets when it's time for people with contrary opinions to sit down and shut up.

Practice your testifying tonals by watching more of those General Conference deliveries, complete with their soulful eye rotationals and passionate pleas for passivity, then come back and try insulting cartoonists into silence.

When that fails to work, you can always go after those vampire Christians who are practicing the evil historical pagan Easter rituals of the Earth goddess, Strangula.

This is hilarious. It's like the baby chick who emerged from the Easter egg to observe, "You crack me up!"

Glad I managed to egg you on. :)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 08:35AM by steve benson.

Religious belief is a matter of faith.

Everyone is free to believe or not believe.

There is no rational, scientific way to prove the existence of the supernatural.

There's no way to disprove it either.

By definition it is outside the realm of existence and remains unknown.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 08:07AM by anybody.

I agree with Steve.

I also think he's a bit more like his grandfather than I thought. Not politically, God no, but personality...

Don't worry Steve, I still love ya.

Steve and I have our disagreements, but I hope he continues to post his musings. They are continual source of wonder in our household.

I challenge any of you to find another place other than RFM you can have a fairly famous individual post regularly and interact with you on these issues.

And where else can you find someone who confidently informs us of the complete lack of reliable scholarship to support various religious claims and is able to prove this assertion unquestionably true due to information gleaned from sources ranging from a retired porn actress/blogger to a convicted felon with degrees from a now-defunct online university?

These are things we would be wise to sit up and take notice of.

We are on the cusp of a great new awakening, and I believe Steve Benson may well be on the cutting edge. Many of us are coming to terms with concepts such as "white privilege" where our views and opinions are suspect due to the poverty of melanin we suffered from birth. I believe we may also be moving toward a brave new understanding of the failures of "scholar privilege."

For far too long we have entrusted interpretations of our world to those who have spent years laboring in narrow areas of study, and subjecting their findings to the scrutiny of others who have done likewise. There certainly have been huge advancements in science and the humanities as a result, but it's likely time to expand our understanding and recognize the inherent flaws in this system.

Absolutely ignorant people need a place at this table. We should no longer insist that sources of information be vetted, tested, and gleaned for accuracy with our insidious "scholar privilege." We should likewise welcome responses to our criticisms that take the form of clever name calling and insults many of us haven't heard since middle school. Isn't it time we just completely strike our notions of "ad hominem" attacks as another form of the "scholar privilege" we've long embraced?

Yes friends, it's time for a change. And I believe that if we encourage individuals like Steve Benson, we will see this new dawn hastened.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 11:25AM by Tall Man, Short Hair.

and have a basic distrust of the scientific method--at least when it conflicts with your miracle-,based faith. You have talked a good game in the past about getting along but I don't trust you. Nor do I like your snideness or your running guerilla battles with me. The more we stay away from each other, the better. When I returned to the board, you seemingly welcomed me with open arms. I knew it wouldn't last because I know you. To you, using your own words, I am a "viper." That's not a good foundation to work from, although I like snakes. I had ball pythons for years and we got along fine. Not so much with you.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 11:59AM by steve benson.

But I will continue to marvel at your lack of self awareness, and inconsistent application of or frequent lack of logical principles.

You turned up the heat, and I stayed in the kitchen.

Auster "Lawyer" had you pegged. So, too, with poster "dagny." The latter is one of my favorite posters on this board, who I immensely respect.

steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nor do I like your snideness or your
> running guerilla battles with me.

Hello?

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1965334,1965591#msg-1965591
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1965334,1965629#msg-1965629


Pot -> Kettle



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 12:05PM by Tall Man, Short Hair.