FACTS: No scientific evidence for a single modern day miracle.

FEELINGS: An emotional state or feeling that may be vague or irrational, and cannot confirm truth or falsity.

FAITH: Believing something you suspect isn't true, but can't admit.

FICTION: Believing bible stories are more real than Book of Mormon stories because they older and harder to disprove.

FANTASY: Living life based on imagining things that are impossible or highly unlikely.

Wow - I thought I could get someone to bite on this. Maybe I should go back to the drawing board.

Or, as Mark Twain said, FAITH: Believing something you know aint so.

'FACTS: No scientific evidence for a single modern day miracle.'
-------------------------------------
I guess it is how you define 'evidence' and 'modern day'.

I happen to believe in 'miracles' or in things that 'science' cannot 'currently' explain.

I have had a number of 'miracles' in my life but agree I can't 'prove scientifically' that they occurred.

Here are 'some' documented ones though that claim 'science' was not able to 'explain' them ----- not that someday they won't be able to. Libraries, the internet and some people on this site all 'claim' they have had miracles.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/05/17/the-top-5-medical-miracles-that-science-cant-explain-or-can-it/

http://www.buzzfaze.com/11-miracles-science-cannot-explain/

It is too easy, in my opinion, for others to discount 'miracles' because they can't be proven. I just say wait to judge others as 'delusional' until one happens to you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2017 08:31PM by spiritist.

No one is questioning your beliefs. No one used the word "delusional" except you.

The Post was written to generate conversation, not ad hominem attacks.

I do not know what miracles you claim to have had, but if you believe them, that is sufficient for you, and all that matters.

If you want to share them, feel free to do so.

You are right I should not have gone to 'name calling' but I have seen that tactic used here so many times I wanted to call it out before it occurred as there are no other 'obvious' explanations.

Been there and done that (related experiences) on this board many times actually so I will not share any of them again unless it becomes necessary.

However, 'none' of them can be proven to others that they occurred the way I perceived them (voices, dreams, visions, 'knowing', spirit communications, etc.. After I mentioned 'my experiences' to my friends and relatives some of them started having their own.

Many experiences (mine and others near to me) involve being protected (by voice, significantly impacting dream, or vision) from danger. Other experiences normally involve a 'knowing' that we need to 'do or get' something before leaving.

I think the 'protection' experiences are most common among people I have personally met including Mormons, other religions, and non religious.

On the home page it clearly state:


Very Active and Compassionate Activity on the Recovery Board - 2017

<sarcasmtag>How could you think that anything but your best interest is at heart?<endscarcasmtag>

Yeah - you got to watch your back here. Anything goes.....

Spiritist:

I cannot argue with you on what you mean by 'knowing'. The human mind/brain can do amazing things.

I give credit to everyone on this Board who is searching for truth.

I am not surprised that the 'protection' experiences are the most common. They would be the easiest to conjure up, as in, 'I know I was being protected because had I left the house 10 minutes earlier, I would have been involved in that accident on the interstate' or whatever.

The 'normal' I have heard/studied about does not match your 'conjuring'.

I have never actually heard any claiming a 'spiritual/paranormal/etc.' experience as you stated above. I have heard people make that type of statement but they did not attach it to a 'spiritual/paranormal' experience unless they were warned in advance.

The 'normal protection experiences' I am aware of involved voices, visions, or dreams warning the person 'before' the event occurred.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2017 10:19PM by spiritist.

Many people have dreams, visions, hallucinations, promptings, etc.

If they appear real to that person, then only that person can try and determine whether there is a natural or supernatural explanation.

My only concern is whether you make significant choices or decisions based on those experiences.

I also have dreams every night some I can remember others not but do recognize I was in the middle of something when I awake.

I normally try to identify any potential messages in dreams that were 'significant enough' to remember in any significant detail at all.

The difference between 'actionable' dreams, visions, etc. is the accompanying 'knowing' that this was the 'real deal'.

Sorry to repeat for others. For example, I ski and got a 'dream' on a Friday but wasn't planning on skiing until Monday. It was like I was viewing myself going down to a specific spot on a run from 30' above myself. I also got a very 'bad' feeling when I got to a specific spot on the run. I then said 'stop' I don't want to see what happens but 'felt' it would be a 'collision' with another skier at that point. In skiing 'collisions' are very rare so I had a lot of logical reasons to 'doubt' this dream there was a very small chance of me hitting someone or someone hitting me on that run.

I also mistakenly 'believed' that being forewarned was being forearmed. Therefore, I went skiing on Monday and I went down that run 1st. However, I stopped and looked to make sure there was no one ahead of me was even near that spot and that there was no one that close behind me. However, I am not fast or fast enough and sure enough as I reached that spot, I never heard anyone, but bam I got hit from behind from a much faster skier that 'assumed' I would turn the other way and we both went down. Fortunately, no harm was done but both of us were embarrassed for the accident.

Sorry, I cannot explain what 'knowing' feels like but that is the best I can explain it.

As far a promptings, those are much more subtle. The 'knowing' is still there but seems far less significant.

Many of my promptings are 'helpful' but involve far less significant matters than 'danger' for example.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2017 10:57PM by spiritist.

Life is a miracle. What more do you want?

Babylon:

Simple - I want an afterlife. I have never claimed to be a happy/satisfied agnostic.

"Simple - I want an afterlife. I have never claimed to be a happy/satisfied agnostic."
___________________________________________


RJD
I am sorry to throw this thread off. However, I am very interested in why you said that response and what you meant by 'afterlife'. What do you mean by 'afterlife'??

From what I understand and have a hard time as a human comprehending is:

--Mormons believe in an after life of some becoming Gods over their own universes/worlds. Doing the spirit children bit, etc. For the others they serve the 'Gods' or are happy somewhere doing who knows what.

--Christians believe in 'praising God/Jesus' ----- heavenly hosts singing, etc.?????? Receiving rewards and others ---- well going to Hell where they are forever burning. Really?

--I and many other faiths believe in reincarnation and an 'in-between' life place. In the after life we in fact meet again with those we 'loved' in this life and this is as far as most people with 'after life' experiences go. However, what no one talks about or few are shown what else.

The other 'else' I believe in is a life review. Not to judge and dole out a punishment or reward but as a 'learning experience' which 'each' life is to the soul. After this 'learning process' both 'life review' and discussions with 'soul group members' which who knows how long it takes, then we get ready to chose/prepare when and where we reincarnate into ---- as a soul group for various 'soul group' experiencing/learning purposes.

All of the above believe we are 'eternal' beings at some point. Eternity is a long time! Under each of the above options we have to have something to do that hopefully is somewhat 'enjoyable' in my mind. All of the above seem a little scary to me.

Is any of these eternities or others one can come up with 'totally enjoyable'??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 02:41PM by spiritist.

Why do you believe in reincarnation?

I try to keep my beliefs to what I have experienced.

I have experienced 3 past lives as human so far, but not much on the 3rd during a 'past life' meditation. Since that 'awakening' I have obtained other 'experiences' (in-between life meditation, etc.) to confirm my 'reincarnation' belief. I also believe I have experienced life as a fish on this planet and another and a sunflower. If I have lived billions of years I am sure I have experienced a lot more lives as the 3 human ones (different races and locations across the world) were pretty closely grouped in time but not that I got very much information like city names, my name, any dates, etc.

Seriously, I never considered this belief until I was 'awakened' to it and still wondering how it all works out. That is why I call it an 'in-between life' when getting technical now, not 'after-life'. I think it is a little scary to think of having to have another childhood, etc. However, this is my current 'human' perspective not 'spiritual perspective'.

It blew my mind, that is why the 3rd life didn't come through as far as my first 2, because that is when my 'conscious' mind stated 'where the F did those lives and the experiences come from'????? They were truly something I had never 'consciously' thought about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2017 12:10AM by spiritist.

So this afterlife is like an after party? Does God have better party favors? I'm all for having fun, but if you can't be happy now maybe that's not God's problem. Maybe you need better imaginary friends.

So this afterlife is like an after party?
________________________________________________

That's how I see it. If you enjoy here and now great ----- continue to seek to do that!

If you don't enjoy here and now too bad ------- hopefully, you can change what you don't enjoy here and now.

If you don't enjoy here and now and can't change that to make it enjoyable ---------- in my view you can look forward to a more satisfying 'next' life.

Wishing or believing that there is actually an afterlife may range from complete fantasy to a distinct possibility.

As you earlier said, "the fact we are here is a miracle".

Whether that statement is true begs the question.

The possibility that the mind, soul, or spirit is separate from the brain and may be eternal, doesn't need God or Jesus as an explanation.

Facts, Feelings, Faith, Fiction, and Fantasy. Which of these things is not like the others?

Listing Facts with the rest, gives the impression it is part of a set rather than the contrast to the rest.


Fact is a very inconvenient item for those choosing to believe since belief is contingent on not having fact or knowledge.

Fact has power. Fact is the tool reality is built on. Facts as modular units can be used to build a new and miraculous whole.

Facts are so powerful, that those whom they do not favor, find it necessary to construct an "alternative." Doesn't that make belief denial?

There comes a time, sooner or later, when everyone must face the facts. Substance matters.

and as time and history have shown -- facts are relative to the time period. I wonder in say 150 years what the future will say of "facts" of this time period......

You are confusing fact with your perception of them or what you wish them to be. That is not the way facts work.

Facts are not relative to the time period or to history. Facts are not relative to anything.

Your evaluation of how important the facts are or what part they play in your life may change with the times. But facts don't change.

For instance, when the world was thought to be round, that was an assumption, not a fact based on the popular perception of the times. The fact is, even when people thought it to be flat, it was always a sphere.

The thing is, facts are not under our control and they are not subject to our recognition of them or our selfish perceptions.

"Facts" are used to elevate those that use them to "Godhood" status. They are the ones that choose themselves to be the guardians of the world.

"Those" who have the facts are right and know better that anyone on this earth. "Facts" are the "utlimate" religion.

Perhaps in time if you continue your quest you will understand....

It is all relative. There is no absolute....

Being "right" is the most important thing for most humans.... It defines us....

The reality is that we don't have a clue how it all started.... And as far as I can tell, it doesn't matter....

You say that "we don't have a clue how it all started ... And as far as I can tell it doesn't matter ..."

I think we have a "clue" as to how the universe started. As to why, we have the religious view and the clueless view.

If the religious view is correct, then it has to matter. If not, then it clearly doesn't matter.

True.

Done:

The Topic was generated to spark conversation, which I think it did.

It seems like the subjects listed are all relevant as we attempt to find the truth during our earthly sojourn.

It is completely understandable given how emotionally invested most of us our in these discussions.

Done:

A Supreme Court Justice once said that facts are stubborn things.(Can't recall who right now) My experiences in my life and my profession have consistently demonstrated that facts only trump belief when there is less emotional investment in the issue being discussed.

Facts were the contrast with the others - that's why I listed it first. A play on words.

Christianity gets an F.

(NOT for facts, btw. For FLUFF.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 02:39PM by PapaKen.