I saw a news item yesterday about an American arrested in Israel for allegedly selling stolen antiquities and/or possessing antiquities without a licence to do so. The American has now been named as John Lund, a noted Mormon lecturer, Egyptian expert, author and tour guide, and some may include Mormon apologist in the list. His books are sold at the BYU book store.

Here is a bio:

http://www.drlund.com/about.cfm

Some articles about the incident in Israel say that he has denied the allegations, others say he has admitted them. There seems no doubt that he was arrested for selling antiquities to tourists and that he was caught at the airport in possession of many antiquities without a licence to own or sell or export them. In one article he is quoted as saying the items belonged to him and he had brought them to Israel from the USA for the benefit of his tour group.

Charges have not been laid yet, as of the latest article I read, and so obviously the allegations have not been proven in court. It is likely too that not all the facts are known or have been publicized yet.

He has been allowed to return to the US on promise to appear in court in Israel if/when charges are brought.

It seems as though it might be a case of how things are "translated" in that authorities are apparently saying he obtained the artifacts illegally from thieves while Mr. Lund may apparently feel that he obtained the items in good faith, i.e., not being aware the items were stolen(?) (my broad paraphrase of what I've read in several articles).

Here is one article:

http://chronicle.com/article/Retired-US-Academic-Is/127575/

Excerpts:

"A retired American college lecturer has been arrested in Israel on suspicion of trafficking in stolen antiquities and attempting to smuggle them out of the country.

"John L. Lund, 70, a motivational speaker, author, and tour guide, was detained late Monday by Israeli customs and antiquities agents as he prepared to board a plane at Ben Gurion Airport. Mr. Lund is an expert on Egyptian history, is the author of How to Hug a Porcupine: Dealing With Toxic and Difficult to Love Personalities, and, according to his Web site, has lectured in history as an adjunct faculty member at universities in California, Idaho, Utah, and Washington.

"A search of his belongings revealed a stash of ancient silver and bronze coins that he was attempting to take out of Israel without a permit, as well as $20,000 and other evidence from the illegal sales of ancient coins, clay oil lamps, and glass and pottery vessels, said a statement from the Israel Antiquities Authority. Mr. Lund had been acting as a guide to two groups touring Israel."


Here is another article, for a bit of variation:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110518/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_antiquities


Here is one of Mr. Lund's books currently on sale at BYU bookstore:

http://www.byubookstore.com/ePOS/form=store439/robotsBYU/item.html&item_number=1-891114-40-9&store=439&design=439


Here is the title of a book Mr. Lund wrote in the 60s:

"The Church and the Negro: A Discussion of Mormons, Negroes and the Priesthood." Salt Lake City: John Lewis Lund, 1967 (6th Printing, 1972).

Wow. Could be a blow to BYU and a few apologist pals. However, as above, the matter is not yet resolved. Seems like a bit of a sticky wicket for the man though. More info pending...


NB: I edited my sub line (I had called him a BYU prof) as I can't find conclusive proof that is/was the case. It's not included in his current online bio. I have also now added a link above to a brief bio of him.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2011 02:14PM by Nightingale.

In the Mariott Center (the largest venue) about marriage and family relationships. How to deal with toxic relationships etc. I've heard him speak many times. Also, didn't he teach marriage prep at BYU? I never took that class but somehow it rings a bell.

... and why Deseret doesn't sell that book any more? hmmmmmmm

Just for background information, the black market in stolen antiquities in Israel is huge, and the state prosecutes buys/sellers/illegal archeologists to the fullest extent of the law. A similar problem exists in Egypt.

Strange, I had just come across my copy of his book, "The Church and the Negro," and was rereading it so that I would never forget that I was once programmed to believe.

any relation to the mega Mo "historical fiction" writer ( I love that word) Gerald k. Lund?

Although he has none scheduled now, apparently he does tours for this LDS tour group, as does DCP.
http://www.cruiselady.com/headliner-details.cfm?h=12

Oh, here's his current tours:
http://www.funforlesstours.com/tour/list/11/b-of-m-tours

Keynote speaker for BoM Lands Conference:
http://ancientamerica.org/library/media/PDF/28832009BMAFFLYER1.pdf

He has written articles for several church publications:
http://lds.org/search?lang=eng&clang=eng&collection=magazines&query=%22John+L.+Lund%22

Thanks for the info...I shared the link on my FB for all my TBM friends to see.

If only some GA's would screw up like this...now that would be awesome!

My family gave it to me as proof that the Bom was true. It was a tortuous read filled with logical fallacies and incredibly poor scholarship. I started to write a rebuttal, but debunking it was overwhelming. There were so many mistakes and misrepresentations that I put it aside. Maybe I’ll finish what I started, and give it to my family along with story of his arrest.

LOL. Last time I was at my inlaws they had a copy of "Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon: Is this the place?" sitting on their coffee table. I'm sure they were hoping I would pick it up and this guy would set me straight. I wonder if he was planning to bury coins somewhere in South America.....

I had John as a tour guide in China on a "fun for less" tour. He is a great guy, and very smart, (though obviously deluded, as I was at the time). It would surprise me to learn that he would knowingly break the law, (but I have been surprised before.)

He was a great tour guide, and seemed to be a very genuine, caring person. I like him, even though I have also read his book "Mesoamerica and the BOM" It was a piece of shit. I hope this turns out OK for him.

I had an Institute class (or two) with him at the University of Utah in the late 90s

Oops - meant to reply to OP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2011 02:20PM by devilman.

Mormons build a temple there.

I see they corrected that awful syntax under the "Focussed Discussion" section... I'd lampooned them about that months ago, and I note there's still a missing comma before a conjunction...

Surprise, surprise, an "LDS Racism" thread has been closed... Well, at lest someone was aware of what occurred on the date of May 17th... Most of the major media appears to have missed that one, but for the historically challenged, May 17th, 1954, was when the United States Supreme Court issued its unanimous verdict that public school segregation was inherently unconstitutional...

Moving back to the topic (well, sort of), there's a thread claiming that new archaeological finds in Mesoamerica are supporting the BOM... A "Michael Ruggeri" is identified as a non-Mormon who is making these claims... I've followed Ruggeri for years, and he's simply a hyperactive journalist-type who reports everything archaeological.

Here's one article I found interesting, since I enjoy following ancient maritime discoveries...

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2011/20110518_maritimemaya.html

>Ancient port site was used periodically between 800 B.C. and 1521 A.D.

Hmmm, two hundred years before Lehi's arrival, and it continued for a thousand years after the BOM's final battle...

>NOAA-sponsored explorers are searching a wild, largely unexplored and forgotten coastline for evidence and artifacts of one of the greatest seafaring traditions of the ancient New World, where Maya traders once paddled massive dugout canoes filled with trade goods from across Mexico and Central America.

>“The maritime Maya have been described much like ancient seagoing Phoenicians. They traded extensively in a wide variety of goods, such as bulk cotton and salt, and likely incense from tree sap called copal, jade, obsidian, cacao, Quetzal and other tropical bird feathers, and even slaves,” said Dominique Rissolo, Ph.D., expedition co-chief scientist and director of the Waitt Institute in La Jolla, Calif. “Maya trade was far-ranging between the Veracruz coast of modern Mexico and the Gulf of Honduras, with each port a link in a chain connecting people and ideas. Yet there is still much to learn about the extensive history and importance of the maritime Maya and how they adapted to life by the sea."

The cotton, BTW, was a New World variety, despite what John L. Sorenson says (the DNA is vastly different), and I don't see any mention of wheat, barley, Old World livestock, iron ore, or even honey... And a note to the diffusionist-crowd: the sailing consisted of remaining close to shorelines, rarely far out of sight of land; transoceanic voyages were way beyond their capabilities...

And it looks like Joseph Smith or somebody got the timeline wrong...

>“Maritime economies were strengthened and far-ranging trade routes were established between A.D. 850 and 1100,” said Jeffrey Glover, Ph.D., expedition co-chief scientist with Georgia State University’s Department of Anthropology in Atlanta.

Now watch some apologist claim the stylized carving of a serpent's head is really a horse...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2011 11:01PM by Admin.

And don't forget, the big-eared, long-nosed Chac mask is really an ancient American elephant, LMAO!

....that he was attempting to take out of Israel without a permit.

Well sure how else are you going to plant stuff in Mesoamerica and make the BoM look historical? He was stealing for a good cause. Better one man should perish (in prison) than a whole religion dwindle in unbelief. =)

I mean, they would only be lying for the lord which is a-ok.

One reason many authentic Middle Eastern relics are essentially "useless" is because of doubtful provenance, i.e. a chain-of-custody that links them to the orginal site...

Anything from a graverobber, etc. becomes problematic for this reason...

"In situ" means that it was found on-site in an archaeological "dig" and its location and authenticity carefully documented...

There are a lot of claims being made--by the likes of Wayne May and Rodney Meldrum--about ancient American artifacts proving pre-Columbian Old and New World contact, but their credibility is always greatly diminished because of how they surfaced...

Among artifacts the May/Lindsay/Shirts/Gardner crowd cite such as the Newark Holy Stones, the Kensington and Oklahoma runestones, the Newark Tower, and others, only the "Bat Creek Stone" was found in something approaching legitimate circumstances (by someone employed by the Smithsonian). And there's strong evidence it was "planted." A near perfect "source" for the alleged writing was found in a 19th century work, and the evidence is overwhelming that it was also a fraud. Too, the Kensington Runestone (purportedly carved by 14th Century Vikings in Minnesota) was claimed to have been unearthed from beneath a tree by a farmer, but there' no evidence for that, despite the claims of Michael Wolter and Alice Kehoe.

Finally, a single site where such an unearthing occurred would face intense scrutiny and disbelief, and it's doubtful it would sway mainstream opinion despite the hype it would doubtless receive. Sagan's observation "Incredible claims require incredible evidence" is particularly apropos.

One of my favorite subversive pastimes is walking around museums and checking how many exhibits have items from inexact locations, or "such-and-such OR such-and-such" location. LOOTED!! Because if it was dug up legitimately, there would be no doubt as to where it came from.

(And all the major museums have looted stuff . . .)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2011 09:35PM by jbstyle.

that would be a kick-ass thriller. Modern day danites turn him over to the Israelis when they discover his nefarious plans. Then he quitely dies in prison. Tom Hanks discovers the conspiracy. You know Dan Brown is working on it ... no doubt.

tell us what the evidence is.

I knew him personally in Idaho. He's a very dynamic teacher-lecturer. Really can work a crowd with fun antidotes.
Yet, he was good at working those that could put him in the glory as it were.

He was a personal friend of Paul Dunn if you get my meaning.

I doubt he was going to bury the coins in America, but you can bet he was going to 'wow' audiences with them in Mormondumb.

I have his book Church and the Negro. It just makes me shake my head.

John could be very rude or brush you off if you didn't fit his agenda for himself.

He also liked to lampoon his students, all in the heart of 'fun' but in his younger days, when I knew him, it wasn't always funny or appreciated. Maybe with age he has gotten more finesse.

Can't believe it! He's 70 already??????

I think some are confusing John Lund with Gerald Lund, who is the one who does the whole marriage crap. I know my friends have gone to his firesides, etc. I could be wrong, but I believe they are different people.

Gerald N. Lund wrote the whack job end of the world book "The Coming of the Lord." John L. Lund wrote hate literature "The Church and the Negro."

Other than that, I'm sure the Lunds are lovely people.

Makes me think of some famous P.T. Barnum quotes.

A well known apologist said good things about Dr. Lund:

http://www.mormontimes.com/article/19608/Scholars-enthusiasts-shed-light-on-Book-of-Mormon-geography-models?s_cid=newsline

"Among the more educated LDS amateur enthusiasts who have also made important contributions to the Mesoamerican geographic model we can include Dr. David A. Palmer, Dr. John L. Lund, Dr. Joseph L. Allen and Dr. Lawrence Poulsen."

But has Dr. Lund been a straight arrow until now?

An older tour advertisement mentions a map made by Joseph Smith of Moroni's travels. They won't tell you that the map includes the Kinderhook plates, a known fraud.

http://www.mygazines.com/issue/678/11

His book says that some Native American have DNA in common with people in modern Israel. This is simply wrong.

http://www.amazon.com/MesoAmerica-Book-Mormon-John-Lund/dp/1891114409

"Did you know: A DNA study by Emory University, accepted by the Smithsonian, acknowledges that some Native Americans have ancestry in common with the peoples in modern Israel and the Mediterranean area."

Now he gets charged with antiquities trafficking?

http://www.vosizneias.com/83932/2011/05/18/jerusalem-israel-accuses-u-s-man-of-antiquities-trafficking/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+vin+(Vos+Iz+Neias)

"The authority’s statement said Lund admitted the offenses attributed to him."


Hmmmm

If anyone hears anything else, please keep the board posted.

I believe he was employed in Seattle; seminary and/or institute (?) in the early 70s....

Maybe my memory playing a trick on me...

This is kind of stupid.
1. The tour group he was traveling with routinely uses the guides as check cashing individuals.

2. You can buy that crap in the photos anywhere. Any bazar in the middle east sells all of this garbage, or just get it off ebay. Sounds like someone is trying to get promoted for this.

3. Stolen? Yeah right, prove it. Are there serial numbers on these crappy oil lamps or coins? Nope.

Guy was doing what every wheeler dealer in the middle east does.

And he apparently had $20K worth of cheques in his jeans from members of his tour group. That's not the same thing as cashing cheques for people.

The artifacts don't need serial numbers in order to be recognized.

No fact or belief trumps the law of the land which makes trafficking antiquities illegal.

Of course we don't yet know all the facts related to this specific case. I hope it can be sorted out and that there is an honest explanation for Lund's actions. But it looks iffy you must say.

I'm not the stupid one for what's gone on here. Lund could be though. In time we will find out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2011 12:35AM by Nightingale.