Zen riddles, Koans, are complicated or impossible questions created to help their followers becoming better problem-solvers..

What about the morons?

Personally, I have left the ward and everytime I now met old friends our conversations always seems to be about putting me under meaningless social ultimatums.

They make comments about the regular clothes I am wearing, my hair, my beard trim, my conventional choice of supermarket foods and what kind of music I listen to. They are not kidding or ironic, they are really dead-serious about it!

We do not really talk about anything but it is implicit that it all is about my choice to leave.

It is like that I have to make a "choice" and that choice is to always choose whatever they say is appropriate! But I can not make head or tails what is right or wrong because we all choose very regular things in life and been doing so for years.

They create a conflict that is not there.

It is like if I had owned a car they would have been condemning me because that I had bought a car with four wheels!

They are just messing with me. I am glad I am out of the social context.

You don't owe them any explanation for the life you're creating for yourself. None whatsoever.

They may want or try to guilt you, but that is so juvenile of them - it isn't the way things work in the REAL world.

Living well is the best way to counter their tactics.

Amyjo, Thank you for your answer.

It has been a hard time to leave it all behind. Still struggling in many ways but it is much better than what it was a couple of years ago. I´ve been dependent on other people for some years (27 years at least) and most of my thinking has been oriented around what other people think. I will try to recreate the natural integrity I once had.

I've thought about that too, ie, that part of our core identity we gave up as LDS - unwittingly.

It didn't nurture or succor our talents or innate abilities. It suppressed them. Most of our time was spent focusing on how to be better Mormons, rather than bettering ourselves.

It does get easier with time, but the scars will be ever present. There will come a time you can look back and be glad you're seeing it from a rear view mirror. There will always be a part of us that was at some point of time in our existence, bound by their cult mentality. I had an interesting childhood, growing up in the Morridor. It wasn't void of spiritual things. What it may have done was provide a basis for the eventual voyage I found myself on, once I discovered the deceptions and lies for myself.

I consider what I gained: my faith that helped me to separate what was real from what is not. When the "rug was pulled out from under me" of all things Mormon, I found I was still standing.

God never left me. He was standing in the gap to deliver me from that darkness. You can't have a close relationship with God when your allegiance belongs to the corporation. They aren't the same thing. Never were. Mormons worship a false construct of God. They might as well be pagan, like Joseph was.

Hi again Amyjo!

The urge to belong to something can be costly in many ways.

Most of us who write on this board seem to have paid a high price. But like you said in your post we also got some great experience out of it all!

That is the perspective to build the new life on leaving the falsehoods behind but like you say, the scars are still there and they hurt from time to time.

I would like to recommend a book for your pleasure and possible boost- The Four Agreements-

Very inexpensive and worthwhile to implement

Gatorman
1-0 in the Dance and still sober

Thank you gatorman!

That sounds like a interesting book. I will look for more information on google.

I second that recommendation. It's a thoughtful little book.

Hi Dagny!

Can not wait to get my hands on it. Will also look if it possible to lend it in the library.

Hi again Dagny

I choose the wrong word. I will try to borrow it.

It is a very short book. It is probably in most libraries to borrow.

Also, you could probably find it in a bookstore and sit and read it if you enjoy visiting the bookstores.

If English is your second language (?), you're doing great! Very impressive.

M. Uzak Wrote:
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> Koans, are complicated or impossible
> questions created to help their followers becoming
> better problem-solvers.

Or they're simple ideas wrapped in obtuse bullsh!t in order to seem more profound. ;)

I learned about koans when I found a video featuring Alan Watts.

He desribed a buddhist-student (aspiring monk I guess?) trying to solve a problem, "show me how to be genuine", and he tried it for a very long time. The teacher sent him away time after time because everything the student brought with him was not really genuine.

It all reached some kind of climax after a time.

The insight was to not try to solve the impossible problems in life. It will take too much time and make you wear-out. Solve problems that are possible to solve.

The message was also to stay away from people that put you in these impossible situations.

That is what I identified as an insight.

M. Uzak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The insight was to not try to solve the impossible
> problems in life. It will take too much time and
> make you wear-out. Solve problems that are
> possible to solve.
>
> The message was also to stay away from people that
> put you in these impossible situations.

And there, in four simple, clear sentences, is something a koan would wrap in obtuse bullsh!t.

what is the sound of one hand washing ?

That is a classical one.

Your post reminded me of this funny episode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlIrI80og8c

I'm going to give you one possible response to their rude questions and comments. Just stare at them, silently. Maybe with a small smile on your face. Say *nothing*. Stare them in the eye long enough to make them squirm. I guarantee you will enjoy this. Ha!

People are very conditioned into giving responses to questions or comments, no matter how rude. The person who is asking the question or giving the comment expects a response. When you don't give one, it is *very* disconcerting to that person. Watch with glee while s/he back peddles, sputters, and makes excuses or justifications, while you continue to stare.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2017 06:28PM by summer.

I will for sure put it in my memory. If I am brave enough I will pull it off.

Mormonites don't really know what is going on and therefore put on airs... just in case. Like a fog, you should soon be able to see through it... believe me, it is more confusing to them than to you.

Mormonism is more a joke than a riddle.

M@t

Yeah, there is something like that, like they do not understand what to do at all and they choose to be rude as a precaution.

Because it does not make sense.

Yea. It's (like) a click; a box; a clueless state [when they think they've found the truth, they usually stop looking]. No matter what they actually know about anything, they think they know it all, therefore arrogance is a huge stumbling block. Relationships are built, generally superficially, based on assumed similarities and prejudiced views, extremely limiting creativity, empathy, wisdom, diversity, real connection and deep and free-thought.

It sounds to me like there's no small amount of envy in their comments.

They're still imprisoned. You've escaped. They envy you your freedom.

They're like alcoholics still sitting on the same old bar stools--they see you, who gave up drinking, pass by through the window and rather than confront their own addiction they run outside and suggest you come in for a drink. They accuse you of being anti-social, or being a bad friend--anything to get you back in their circle so they can justify their own sick behavior.

summer's suggestion, above, is great: just don't respond. When we respond to bad behavior we are rewarding those who are behaving badly. Don't respond.

No, NO, you really do need the (STUPID, Unmentionable) secret handshakes that empower them and that they will not openly acknowledge the existence of. Do not worry, in spite of all of the dismay and disdain that is directed at you by them over the concocted matter, they ( the MORmONS) really enjoy having the concocted ability to (supposedly) be superior to some one else, you in this instance. They are fully self entitled to feel superior to you over the matter. After all, a whole bunch of snooty self important men who invoke the name of Jesus while wearing white shirts and ties told them so, regardless of how indirectly. You are NOT allowed to point out or mention the completely contrived basis -the brigade of pompous asses as pompous asses or their secret handshakes, of their contrived MORmON arrogance. Welcome to the very one way MORmON street of interacting with others.