I'm a sucker for Symbolism.

I enjoy the association of a Symbol with an underlying concept and philosophy and identity. Religion, product branding, jewelry, art, corporations, sports, and so forth, all rely heavily on Symbols and Symbology.

This is probably one reason I Stayed LDS for so long, despite an industrial-sized shelf.

This is why I enjoyed Boy Scouts as a youth and as a leader.

This is why I now enjoy eastern thought and philosophies, given the strong use of symbols and manifestations of sounds, of "gods", of life force, of human characteristics and tendencies, and of identity.

This is one reason that I was not freaked out by LDS Temple symbols and rites. I always felt a desire and took a great personal responsibility to learn and to understand the symbolism therein.

And, this is one reason that I jettisoned all things LDS, when I learned that Joseph ripped off all of the LDS Temple Symbols from Masonry, and now see LDS Temple Symbolism as hollow and a poor version of Symbols long established throughout history:

- http://www.mormonthink.com/temple.htm

Joseph expropriated the Symbols but stripped them from their meaning, deep and historically meaningful explanations and thought.

The LDS preach to "learn by yourself" the meaning of the LDS Symbols, when in fact, the Symbols are already well documented in other traditions and are much more meaningful there than in LDS tradition. An example is:

- http://www.masonrytoday.com/index.php?new_month=9&new_day=10&new_year=2016

Symbolism is not everyone's cup o' tea, but at least, if you are going to use it, use it and teach it correctly.

Neo-Galileo


p.s. I am convinced that Joseph created the Temple ceremony as a means to extract secrecy from those who entered into Polygamy. And that the Temple was not originally for anyone not involved in Polygamy.

You might enjoy reading some of Robert Grave's works on symbolism, and also Joseph Campbell, if you haven't already done so.

I particularly like Campbell and his idea that myths are not just "stories," but an impressionistic attempt to make truth more accessible. Symbols are just another abstraction of those truths. Earlier epochs had a very different concept of reality and truth than we have.

Graves was interested in how symbols are repurposed by successive generations and cultures. He incorporated a lot of that thinking into "King Jesus" and the "Nazarene Gospel Restored". As much as anything else in those works, he strips away the layers that have been applied by later generations to try to get to what might have been the original context.

MarkJ- Thanks for the heads up. I'll dig into these.

Neo-Galileo

One of the things that fascinates me is that the Beehive, which is Utah's state symbol and a general symbol of all things Mormon (Deseret Mills, etc.), is just another one of many symbols stolen from Freemasonry, as are moonstones, sunstones, and the clasping hands, and everything else. When it comes to intellectual property, LDS Inc. is a den of thieves.

Made even more interesting and ridiculous, given how vigorously LDS HQ defends its "own" IP, with cease-and-desist and other legal maneuvers.

Neo-Galileo

According to the Book of Mormon, "deseret" meant "honeybee"in the language of the Jaredites. The ironic aspect of using the beehive as the symbol for the state of "Deseret" is that the common honey bee was not native to the American continent, and was introduced by Europeans sometime around 1622. By 1640 wild hives were found throughout the woods of Massachusetts. Mormons themselves brought the first honey bees to Utah in 1848. If the Jaredites had indeed brought them to the continent, honey bees they would have been already present and known to the natives.

From: https://www.amazon.com/Bees-America-Honey-Shaped-Nation/dp/0813191637

"The image of the hive continued to be popular in the eighteenth century, symbolizing a society working together for the common good and reflecting Enlightenment principles of order and balance."

I cannot think of any symbol that Mormonism has created. They have taken symbols that were popular and claimed them as their own. In the case of the beehive, it is a symbol that argues against the veracity of the Book of Mormon.

Native peoples called honeybees "English flies."

I believe that all symbols lack intrinsic value. Their value is that which we choose to invest in them. When we share the same value as others we're saying to them, "I'm with you. We're in the same tribe."

This is true of the American flag, crosses, ten-dollar bills, embroidery on magic underwear, oaths, Rorschach blots, corporate trademarks, thimblefuls of water during Sunday meetings, emoticons, sports logos, secret handshakes etc. etc.

Generally I try to avoid having overtly emotional reactions to symbols. However, I do admit to getting excited when I stick my hand in the pocket of a pair of pants I haven't worn for awhile and find a ten-dollar bill. Also, of course, when I see the image of "Hello Kitty" on the internet I want to print it out, stab it repeatedly with rusty scissors, then set fire to it while I cackle madly.

getbusylivin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

. Also, of course, when I
> see the image of "Hello Kitty" on the internet I
> want to print it out, stab it repeatedly with
> rusty scissors, then set fire to it while I cackle
> madly.



lmao

Ah, I see. You must be more of a 'Girls und Panzer' fan...

Chicks in tanks--what's not to like???

getbusylivin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However, I do admit to getting excited when I stick my hand in the pocket
> of a pair of pants I haven't worn for awhile and
> find a ten-dollar bill.

A dollar is a symbol of nothing of value. There are no "reserves" behind your Federal Reserve Note. And, of course, the Federal Reserve is not a part of the US Federal Government--it's a privately held entity. Too bad we can't buy stock in an outfit that can literally print all the money it wants!

Also, of course, when I
> see the image of "Hello Kitty" on the internet I
> want to print it out, stab it repeatedly with
> rusty scissors, then set fire to it while I cackle
> madly.

One of my favorite cartoons (lost it a long time ago) was the "Hello Kitty", dead center in the scope of a sniper's crosshairs. Caption: "Goodbye, Kitty!"

neogalileo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Symbolism is not everyone's cup o' tea, but at
> least, if you are going to use it, use it and
> teach it correctly.

Appropriation of other people's symbols for their own symbolism is as old as the hills. I'm typing symbols which probably were stolen.

Joseph Smith even used the term "Reformed" in stealing a concept of a (symbolic) language.

Language and symbols have a drifting, changing, and transforming over time.

Kind of interesting. Just don't use cartoons to symbolize a certain prophet. You might get threatened.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Appropriation of other people's symbols for their
> own symbolism is as old as the hills. I'm typing
> symbols which probably were stolen.

Yeah, I was going to point out that the "Freemasons" essentially ripped off most of THEIR symbols from pre-existing ones anyway...:)

It is like stealing their power. Reminds me of the movie "Coming to America" where McDowl I think ripes off McDonalds.

That's interesting (about polygamy in temples). I never liked Mormonism, their temples (I'm not superstitious or awed by plastic symbology or the vetting and judging process in the ldsC), meaningless rituals, polygamy, LDSacrament, or mormoni leasthood.

I often wondered why the crook created the temple... besides to extract obedience/ secrets/ $ /sex.

"p.s. I am convinced that Joseph created the Temple ceremony as a means to extract secrecy from those who entered into Polygamy. And that the Temple was not originally for anyone not involved in Polygamy."

I believe your Ps is spot on.

I like symbolism, metaphors, and art that represents these. I like the exterior symbolism on the Salt Lake Temple--the clasped hands, the suns, moons, stars, Big Dipper, all-seeing eye.

I read once that the spires symbolize the two priesthoods with three offices in each; and that the spires are directly above the priesthood pulpits in the Solemn Assembly Room. I liked the temple murals, I loved the symbolism of three- the Trinity, with steps, knocks, etc.

However, there were no other ways to interpret the death penalties of the older Endowment. It was clear--participants were symbolically killings themselves rather that sharing a handshake...except at a certain place that would be shown hereafter. Add to this, I didn't know what was going to happen in the temple.

Sorry, Mormons, I see your bloody oaths as despicable images, design by a cult, to scare me into submission--fuck that!

Symbols suck! I wasted too much time in the temple trying to decode the endowment...trying to find the deeper meaning that I was missing. I spoke with individuals that had been attending for decades. They had their own theories, but it was nothing deep... just their ideas on the temple clothes, etc... I thought there had to be something plain and precious I was missing. NOPE! It's just pure idiocy!

Mormonism got its symbols from Freemasonry. Freemasonry got its symbols from the Kabbalah. The Kabbalah got its symbols from Hermeticism and nobody knows where Hermeticism came from. Hermeticism is some of the oldest pagan rights known to man and people claim it came from Atlantis (if there was even such a place) but nobody can prove it...

Do ANY of the 'temples' other than SL have (the same) symbols on the exterior (or interior)?

I guess a case could be made that the 1800's saints 'needed them', but current ones don't...


As an aside, the high school (Monroe, WA) that my g.kids go to has the Masonic "Compass G" symbol / exterior / near the front door; I asked the school board WHY? but NO RESPONSE....

Here is an expose on the symbols of Mormonism: https://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/sinister-sites-temple-square-utah/

The Nauvoo Temple is covered in Pentagrams and sun stones: https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/113131100535987959172/6105385246691524194?icm=false

Expose on the links between Mormonism and Freemasonry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etObSvihwy4&index=7&list=FLycge7lcqO57GcWNSnuNJew

It makes me wonder why the youth of mormonism aren't decorated with these symbols when they reach their so called achievement goals.

The YW symbol should obviously be a gold beehive with a gold inverted pentagram holding it up with a gold chain.

Why haven't these symbols that are plastered all over the SLC and Nauvoo Temple a part of mormon jewelry, symbolism, and art? Why are they kept on the down low?

It would seem to me that every mormon worth their salt should have at least one piece of prominent jewelry displaying the pentagram. The mormons are missing out on a big marketing money maker.

I also find symbolism interesting, and like you find the mormon interpretation cheap and shallow. Squaring the circle symbolism is a deep intellectual idea. Same with story boards of free masonry.