hello board..

I have lived in Utah in the very epicenter of all things Mormon for decades.I am a older Male non believer in Mormonism and saw the demise of a very good family and my marriage over it. I've moved on and stayed single and I enjoy my life and the freedom being out of the Church.
Since I have lived here so long I have noticed that in my particular middle class "ward" that the middle aged and older men (retired) have no real male friends. They have their ward assigned friends I suppose but true real male friends they do not. I have always had many friends and made friends easily and I do many outings,travel, sports, cars etc. with friends both men and women. I usually have lunch with a friend daily.
When my friends come over by which is often ( some smoke btw) the neighbor men wander over to see what we projects we are working on. They always ask what I'm up to or where we are loading up to go. These neighbor men seem to live only for Sunday, Temple day, taking the garbage out and mowing their lawns & usually dressed like winter in July too.
Its just an local observation and I hate to judge but somehow I think the church has broken these men into pawns with no purpose. The Church reached much deeper than just in their pocketbooks.
*for the younger group-Did your LDS dads have real male friends not assigned ones.
Opinions appreciated... I could be wrong


oh' and for those of you wondering - yes I date women...often.

I couldn't agree more. I think the church absolutely sucks the Life straight out of you, and any sort of interpersonal relationship skills as well. You don't have to have social skills or common interests to get along with people in the church. People are kept so busy, there's no time for that anyway. You keep showing up to the meetings and the people who are there are your automatic social network, whether you like them or not. Nobody has time for "friend dates."

The only argument I would make is that this is not exclusive to mormon men. I think mormon women are all about raising babies and not much else. Ever try to have a conversation about politics, current events, sports, or entertainment with a mormon woman? Vapid, inane nonsense. They don't read (unless it's church crap, which is generally speaking, horribly written at best), they aren't activists, they don't do any sort of community service.

I think "Be in the world not OF the world" is very damaging and isolates people too. It's a clever thing to say because the interpretation of just what that means is so subjective. Maybe it means don't ever talk to nonmormons unless you're trying to convert them. Maybe it means don't join a gym or take a yoga class. Maybe it means don't read any book or periodical that isn't specifically published by the church. Maybe it means go live in a cave in the mountains. Who knows?

Agree with you both.

I remember going away to college and seeing an entirely different social life. People had dinners together that sometimes lasted two or three hours, actually talked to one another, developed much deeper friendships than I'd seen as a young Mormon. My parents don't even know what real friendships are, what people do for old friends.

Mormonism robs people of normal familial and social relationships and skills. It isolates them from normal human affection and loyalty, rendering the church essential as a substitute.

Can a future god really make friends?

Being a God for all time and eternity is not about really make friends. That's the pitiful existence that the less-righteous people in the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms shall have. As a God (assuming you repent, go back to Church, and just endure to the end) your existence will be to sit in front of your Inbox for all time/eternity answering each and every prayer, text message, email message, online forum thread, etc. in a way that'll make all your trillions of spirit babies (and even many more spirit grand babies & beyond) be super happy knowing that their Lord loves and cares for them. Thus there won't be any time for fun/friends as you will be so busy bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of your spirit offspring. Dear Chicken N. Backpacks you should go back to Church as you would make an awesome gospel doctrine teacher. In fact with an Initial you are totally GA material with a big red chair in the conference room all set and ready for you ;)

When you explain what exaltation will be like I suggest you focus on some of the more appealing aspects of Celestial existence. Think more like a marketing person in trying to sell a product. Otherwise you might scare them all away from repentance if they think that being exalted is akin to being a slave to some email spam box for all time and eternity. Such an existence wouldn't be heaven. It would be hell.

Oh I get it. I know what sells. Its the eternal bedroom stuff. I'll go find that 1982 letter from the First Presidency that explains all this better.

Yes we sell what sells because first and foremost we got to get these folks re-assimilated. But don't talk about that 1982 letter because its embarrassing. Let the smart folks at the Maxwell institute do that. What you need to do is more focus on just being a quiet lamb in the fold.

I still don't think my dad has friends to this day he didn't even hang out with people from church. Just played mister controller at home.

op is absolutely right. There is something about Utah where the competition is high everyone is trying to always outdo each other all the time. Mormons are too busy to care about other people. I've lived in other places like the old south and they really are more friendly and have time to help each other more. There doesn't seem to be so many busy people. They take time to talk, network, gossip more.

Now if we really look at the bible it's clearly evident that Jesus wanted people to actually have friends. He called his disciples his friends, Abraham was called a friend of god. the Pauline epistles are full of evidence of affectionate interactions of Paul to Timothy, Eunice, Lois, Titus, Barnabas clearly they were all friends.

Somehow mormons especially men have gotten away from this idea of having friends.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2017 12:17AM by poopstone.

If you walk down any street in Utah carrying this package, you will have a train of young ladies yearning to be your eternal helpmeet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LDS-THE-BOOK-OF-MORMON-LEATHER-BOUND-FIRST-EDITION-SIGNATURES-CHURCH-FOUNDERS-/332118450909?hash=item4d53cd62dd:g:SNEAAOSwal5YKJ-~

haha all those signatures are obviously written by the same person

All my friends are insurance salesmen.

Did a bowl of oatmeal try to stare you down?

You sound like you're an extrovert, which explains why you have and make friends as easily as you do.

Surely there are extroverts inside Mormonism. It isn't a magnet for introverts.

I see the friendship among members and much of the clannishness as people associate with (generally speaking,) those who are like-minded they have something in common with.

At LDS Inc it's all about the church. Their world revolves around it. It being the epicenter of their lives, it's a natural extension to associate only with others who share the same peculiar and cult mindset. Not that they all can't break out of that and still be "Mormon," even if in name only.

Consider Mitt Romney. He has a wide array of friends through his political career that don't include Mormons, and still was able to manage both at the same time. Most Mormons, male or female, don't seem to share that same mindset or capacity - and keep to their own. That's why I relate living in the Morridor for much of my childhood and youth into young adulthood - it felt like living inside a cloistered bubble.

We were so sheltered. So protected from the world. Many of my peers from my school days still are that way. Sometimes I long for that more "innocent time," but even my hometown has evolved since then. The Morridor *is* changing. It's been overtaken by commercialism and consumerism. That's the new god on the block. Mormons worship money, they just don't admit it.

Well, I lived in Utah County for over 20 years. I had work friends but I didn't talk to them about my home life. I had church friends but I didn't talk to them about my marriage or any struggles I might be having. My DH had work friends who were all LDS since he worked at BYU. Looking back on it all, I can say for myself and for DH that neither of us had a real close friend. It seemed that no one wanted to share the real stuff that was happening in our personal life because we were all in a competition about perfection. Perfect kids, perfect marriages, you get the drift.

Once I got divorced and stopped going to church, all the so called "church friends" just seemed to fade away. I sort of became untouchable and burst the "perfect" family bubble.

My husband fell in love with the Church thru a single adults activity at age 20. Twenty-six years later he is still close friends with many of them. We have several close friends, active and inactive LDS, who we see on a regular basis.

My parents are very genuine people. Still TBMs, they had a thing as a young couple to eat dinner with another ward couple once a month and are still friends with some of them. They make and cultivate friendships today, but mostly in the Church.

We had a very good time at BYU family housing in large part due to my husband being a friendly extrovert. But aside from that short time we did not live in Utah.

My mother had a best friend from high school until the day she died. My mother was an introvert and there were so many people at her funeral (at the funeral home), they ran out of seating. She wanted a graveside service, but it snowed. All my mom's friends were long-term.

My dad was very close friends with his co-workers. They met for coffee every morning and played jokes on each other at the high school they all taught at. My dad was also friends with most of the farmers where his farm was located and friends with parents of his FFA students. He also had a life-time friend from college who was his best man. They'd go fishing together all the time. My dad was not your typical mormon in any fashion.

The fact that you stated that most mormon men don't have friends, etc., reminded me of what my boyfriend told me about the mormon men he works with. He said that many of them tell him that they sneak out with friends for a beer now and then and their wives don't know.

My two best friends are TBM and I met them at two of my jobs. I've known both for over 30 years and don't live even close to this ward.

Neither of my parents had close friends. They were barely acquaintances with people they knew from their school days. Social life centered around ward and family. Period.

Truth be told, I don't think my parents were even close to each other.

You are right. My husband complained that he didn't have any "male" or "couple" friends, although we would occasionally see some couples eating out at a table near us.

My response was, we do so much with our family (by then grown children), and exchanging dinners with them, that it doesn't leave much time for other socializing opportunities. We only had one couple who responded to our invitation to come over to visit for talk, and snacks. But he was a big talker, and his wife (and we) could never get a word in edgewise. (Not too long after that, they divorced.)

Another time, a couple in our ward held a social at their house, but no one knew quite what to say to each other. Same thing with a different couple a decade later.

The second couple was easier to talk with, as he had lived in several places before he made it to the United States. We shared food, and had a nice time. Even so, socializing still seemed "stiff", and tended to be on church stuff.

As I was a community activism, I had several very good friends to socialize with. One was a Jewish woman who was sent from her country as a teen, to America, for safe keeping during WWII. In those days, American Jewish families agreed to take in such refugees, and pay for their education (so they could get a good job). Even though she was safe here, she never lost her fear of being traced, and killed. (She always burned all her mail after reading it, so no one could find it in her trash.)

Sorry...I digressed.

Just wondering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> When my friends come over by which is often (
> some smoke btw) the neighbor men wander over to
> see what we projects we are working on. They
> always ask what I'm up to or where we are loading
> up to go. These neighbor men seem to live only for
> Sunday, Temple day, taking the garbage out and
> mowing their lawns & usually dressed like winter
> in July too.

Did you also notice the other big thing about MORmONS ??? -That they are BORING !!!! BOOOORRRRRRRRINNNNGGGGGGGG!!!

I have a few personal interest/ hobbies. It does not even matter what they really are. They make me happy. I will not even begin to pretend that they have some grand cosmic profundity or indispensable redeeming value, besides my mere amusement. They might even be right down silly and contrived but they are still MUCH more valid and genuine and meaningful than doing stupid UNMENTIONABLE handshakes for dead people and having a life that is completely centered on such worthless wasteful parasitic IDIOCY !!!

MORmONS are BORING ! Their MORmON lives are centered on MORmON idiocy !!!! which is BORING !!! That is what being in a secret (UNMENTIONABLE) handshake social club where it is not allowable to mention the stupid secret handshakes will do to a person.

I was at a house warming party in a small town in Utah a while ago. The mormon men were pasty white pudgy doughboys who only go to work and then church on Sunday. No outside interests, no hobies, no participation in individual sports, no big career achievments - just Church and being led around with a ring through the nose by the real Priesthood Authority - The Molly Mo Wife.

The non-mos and exmos at the party were mostly rural rednecks but they were a heck of a lot more fun, interesting, and intelligent than the TBM Walter Mitty types.

They are afraid of having friends, have no need to and don't have time to, don't know how to and aren't allowed to make friends.

They've given up on - or forgotten how to - having fun... or (been taught) think they aren't supposed to.

You're in the think of it though. I think it's against the law there [to even appear like you're having fun].

I think it's more a function of the current generations of middle-aged men and younger. The old guys like my dad had and in some case still have a little more sense of fun and adventure. Then again, I'm told that the church used to be fun in some ways, too. It was still b.s., I would assume, but not quite so much drudgery as it is now.

for my Dad's generation. Lots of the Mormon kids learned to drink coffee and tea if they wanted some liquid and they learned how to cut loose a bit. My WWII vet uncles were always good fun at parties, and I think they had a sense of accomplishing something much bigger than themselves.

It is very important to develop hobbies and interests outside of work and family. This is not meant to diminish family time, but to increase life experiences and, as a side benefit, make new friends. This can be community charity work, music, coaching a youth team etc. It enriches life and will actually improve family relations in my opinion and make one more entertaining to be around. For example, I am playing, in two weeks, at a jazz festival. My daughter and her husband and friends plan on attending. After the performance we usually go out for dinner and just enjoy each other's company. Most likely other members of the band will join us. It is a fun excuse to get together. Life as a Mormon with no outside pursuits is drab and soul sucking.

I don't remember my parents having many friends when I was growing up. They were too busy working and raising kids. They do get out more and get together with friends regularly now that they're retired.

My TBM wife has a bunch of friends that she goes out with. I have some friends that I occasionally do things with, but I'm usually beat after work and busy on the weekends with the kid's activities. I usually just want to relax. My wife usually has to push me out the door.