For those of you who have left the church and now doubt the existence of the "abrahamic" God, and the veracity of the story of Christ as it is presented in the New Testament: Does this particular passage from the Bible inspire any belief in you? that God does exist, and that he has your back so to speak? Does that same feeling again arise in you — the one Thomas S. Monson calls "the burning testimony and knowledge that the Church is true" — except that now the fullness of Heavenly Father's love is revealed, and fallacy has come to light?

It is a curious case just how much this passage applies to the LDS problem. And it is most interesting that its author included verses 23 & 24, which affirm a notion about God contrary to the fundamental LDS doctrine of exaltation, taught by Joseph Smith.



THE BOOK OF JEREMIAH (NABRE)
CHAPTER 23

A Just Shepherd.
1
Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the flock of my pasture—oracle of the LORD.
2
Therefore, thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, against the shepherds who shepherd my people: You have scattered my sheep and driven them away. You have not cared for them, but I will take care to punish your evil deeds.
3
I myself will gather the remnant of my flock from all the lands to which I have banished them and bring them back to their folds; there they shall be fruitful and multiply.
4
I will raise up shepherds for them who will shepherd them so that they need no longer fear or be terrified; none shall be missing—oracle of the LORD.
5
See, days are coming—oracle of the LORD—
when I will raise up a righteous branch for David;
As king he shall reign and govern wisely,
he shall do what is just and right in the land.
6
In his days Judah shall be saved,
Israel shall dwell in security.
This is the name to be given him:
“The LORD our justice.”
7
Therefore, the days are coming—oracle of the LORD—when they shall no longer say, “As the LORD lives, who brought the Israelites out of the land of Egypt”;
8
but rather, “As the LORD lives, who brought the descendants of the house of Israel up from the land of the north”—and from all the lands to which I banished them; they shall again live on their own soil.

THE FALSE PROPHETS
9
Concerning the prophets:
My heart is broken within me,
all my bones tremble;
I am like a drunk,
like one overcome by wine,
Because of the LORD,
because of his holy words.
10
The land is filled with adulterers;
because of the curse the land mourns,
the pastures of the wilderness are withered.
Theirs is an evil course,
theirs is unjust power.
11
Both prophet and priest are godless!
In my very house I find their wickedness—
oracle of the LORD.
12
Hence their way shall become for them
slippery ground.
Into the darkness they shall be driven,
and fall headlong;
For I will bring disaster upon them,
the year of their punishment—oracle of the LORD.
13
Among Samaria’s prophets
I saw something unseemly:
They prophesied by Baal
and led my people Israel astray.
14
But among Jerusalem’s prophets
I saw something more shocking:
Adultery, walking in deception,
strengthening the power of the wicked,
so that no one turns from evil;
To me they are all like Sodom,
its inhabitants like Gomorrah.
15
Therefore, thus says the LORD of hosts against the prophets:
Look, I will give them wormwood to eat,
and poisoned water to drink;
For from Jerusalem’s prophets
ungodliness has gone forth into the whole land.
16
Thus says the LORD of hosts:
Do not listen to the words of your prophets,
who fill you with emptiness;
They speak visions from their own fancy,
not from the mouth of the LORD.
17
They say to those who despise the word of the LORD,
“Peace shall be yours”;
And to everyone who walks in hardness of heart,
“No evil shall overtake you.”
18
Now, who has stood in the council of the LORD,
to see him and to hear his word?
Who has heeded his word so as to announce it?
19
See, the storm of the LORD!
His wrath breaks forth
In a whirling storm
that bursts upon the heads of the wicked.
20
The anger of the LORD shall not abate
until he has carried out completely
the decisions of his heart.
In days to come
you will understand fully.
21
I did not send these prophets,
yet they ran;
I did not speak to them,
yet they prophesied.
22
Had they stood in my council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people,
They would have brought them back from their evil ways
and from their wicked deeds.
23
Am I a God near at hand only—oracle of the LORD—
and not a God far off?
24
Can anyone hide in secret
without my seeing them?—oracle of the LORD.
Do I not fill
heaven and earth?—oracle of the LORD.
25
I have heard the prophets who prophesy lies in my name say, “I had a dream! I had a dream!”
26
How long? Will the hearts of the prophets who prophesy lies and their own deceitful fancies ever turn back?
27
By the dreams they tell each other, they plan to make my people forget my name, just as their ancestors forgot my name for Baal.
28
Let the prophets who have dreams tell their dreams; let those who have my word speak my word truthfully!

What has straw to do with wheat?

—oracle of the LORD.
29
Is not my word like fire—oracle of the LORD—
like a hammer shattering rock?
30
Therefore I am against the prophets—oracle of the LORD—those who steal my words from each other.
31
Yes, I am against the prophets—oracle of the LORD—those who compose their own speeches and call them oracles.
32
Yes, I am against the prophets who tell lying dreams—oracle of the LORD—those who lead my people astray by recounting their reckless lies. It was not I who sent them or commanded them; they do this people no good at all—oracle of the LORD.
33
And when this people or a prophet or a priest asks you, “What is the burden of the LORD?” you shall answer, “You are the burden, and I cast you off”—oracle of the LORD.
34
If a prophet or a priest or anyone else mentions “the burden of the LORD,” I will punish that man and his household.
35
Thus you shall ask, when speaking to one another, “What answer did the LORD give?” or “What did the LORD say?”
36
But “the burden of the LORD” you shall mention no more. For each of you, your own word becomes the burden so that you pervert the words of the living God, the LORD of hosts, our God.
37
Thus shall you ask the prophet, “What answer did the LORD give?” or “What did the LORD say?”
38
But if you ask about “the burden of the LORD,” then thus says the LORD: Because you use this phrase, “the burden of the LORD,” though I forbade you to use it,
39
therefore I will lift you on high and cast you from my presence, you and the city which I gave to you and your ancestors.
40
And I will bring upon you eternal reproach, eternal shame, never to be forgotten.

No, sorry, it doesn't.
And honestly, I can't imagine why it *would.*

You do realize that, early on, when it talks about raising up a "righteous branch," that it's NOT talking about "Jesus," don't you?

WHAAAAATTTT! you mean that the Jewish (old) testament really does NOT foretell of the Roman created Jewish (mish mash) messiah as presented by the (Roman) New Testament (mocker of Judaism) ?

The Bible, like the Book of Mormon, the Quran and other writings is part of what I think of as "Dueling Scripture," a parlor game wherein proponents of one or the other (or folks who just like to argue for the sake of arguing, or for the sake of being "right") use certain passages to justify their beliefs.

I don't claim that God does or does not exist; I have insufficient evidence to say one way or the other. Scripture doesn't do anything for me--it's weak sauce. It's not an authority--it's a book. Whereas there is evidence for many of the temporal historical events and people and geography found in these books, I have yet to see evidence of the "spiritual" (supernatural) claims, so it doesn't move me.

Why should it?

No

There are a lot of assertions made there, but there's no evidence presented for the existence of a god.

No. Those words are really narcissistic and sound like someone was really stoned when they wrote them. I don't think the word of God should require a good editing.

Who was taking dictation anyway when God said that? Oliver Cowdery?

Just because everything about the human body, every other life form, the rotation and orbit of the earth, with its lucky moon, the expansion of the universe, the warfare of all life forms, the trajectory of wisdom, the existence of compassion and the reality of death, doesn't mean there is a god. It is quite possible that a half speck of dust just decided to explode one day and everything just appeared, then began the slow improvements and complexities of evolution.

God is only appropriate for those who are readily inspired by everything miraculous, utterly beautiful and wonderfully perfect in their flawed state.

Why atheists waste all waking hours to think of that which is impossible, is the only question that cannot be answered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYvXk_bqlBk

Great video! Thanks for sharing link.

Yes, because arguments from personal incredulity and ignorance are oh-so convincing...
So is making up lies about what you imagine atheists think about.

Oh, wait, no they're not. Never mind then.

Yes, it makes me believe in God. Especially Thor. Now he just needs to do the world a favor and use his hammer on the COB. I'd like to see a scripture about The Hulk. Thor could use some help.

Nope.

Joseph Smith perverted the bible, twisting and contorting it to his liking by revising what suited him, and adding to the scriptures.

There is a revised KJV bible with Joseph's translation, that would likely read different from this, or come with a disclaimer at the end of the chapter, in addition to his own scriptures he added to supersede the bible.

I haven't stopped believing in God since I left Mormonism. I may even believe in him more fully because to me he represents the God of the bible, not of the Book of Mormon. The first was written by Jewish scribes and prophets. Not Joseph's plagiarized and fictionalized account.

Jer 23 describes the false prophets of Jerusalem. Some were given over to adultery. (v.15) We know that Joseph Smith was every bit an adulterer with a twist. He proclaimed his newest revelation re plural marriage so he could take to himself as many women as he coveted. Then it would be alright - because the buck stopped with him, and his deluded followers obeyed his commands.

He was a really charming devil, that one! Honestly, from reading his life story is it no wonder many who were LDS become totally apathetic to scripture and antithetical to God?

Joseph was a scoundrel, not a prophet.

Which one?

Tl;dr. I don't want to read 40 verses of scripture. I can find more interesting fiction elsewhere.

If I found a blog post of similar length about Illuminati conspiracies and gave it to you to read, would it make you believe in Illuminati conspiracies? (I would hope not.)

Lordy. It's Jamshid Rohani again.

Nah.

No. Are you so easily persuaded?

Reading a made up fictional story does not make cartoon characters real.

Nope, no verifiable evidence.

No. Sounds like long-winded rambling from a long-dead age to me. I can't even begin to fathom how you think a bunch of Bible verses will miraculously convert actual atheists back into superstition and myth. Just like I'll never understand how someone can see through the Mormon scam only to fall for another sect of Christianity. It's all a massive scam designed to keep people in line.

Why would something written almost twenty six hundred years ago make me believe in the supernatural?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2017 08:06AM by anybody.

Oh frabjous day! Calloo, callay!

I believe! I say again, I believe!

WHY DIDN'T ANYONE SHARE THESE VERSES SOONER?!

Why would this make me believe again? If anything, you just reminded me why I decided the Bible is a whole lot of crazy.

The basis for the bible is a very, very, very meager amount of substantiated written evidence in existence upon which a very, very, very huge amount of unsubstantiated certainty exists.

When I learned this fact along with studying the facts in the field of anthropology, I knew that it is of supreme importance to men from the beginning of time to have security that they will go on living after they die and that there is a god or gods who are up in the sky caring for them and waiting for them.

I, myself, do not have enough evidence to know for sure if there is a god or gods, but the preponderance of evidence I am aware of tells me that man made god or gods, not the other way around.

I didn't believe in god because of some words in some book. I believed in god because the adults in my life believed in god.