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Posted by: turbo ( )
Date: March 01, 2017 04:20PM

We were nearly the most active family you could imagine. We have now left and are beginning to tell family. MIL thinks husband must have sinned and that is why -no, he is a man who sought truth, and we both recognized it. I digress.

Working through some serious trust issues with religion. I have had spiritual experiences and a testimony, but realized my testimony was based on the basic teachings of Christ; kindness, charity, forgiveness, long suffering, prayer, and so on. My feelings of uneasiness and distrust came from the added idea of temples, polygamy, J Smith, B Young, etc.

I think the most damning part of the Mormon church is taking what I feel are spiritual truths (answers to prayer) and essentially making that evidence of spiritual fallacies(the Mormon church must be true). I sometimes feel like I am separating taffy trying to find what was truth, what was a lie and what was maybe me just wanting to believe something.

Dedicated study of the Bible brought realization of how unbased Mormon doctrine/beliefs/history are. Actually, more like false prophets, Antichrist, breaking commandments, against God's word and patterns, and more!

It felt like a joy to take off the spiritual burden of believing God was not the author of these horrible ideas. Then comes the Old Testament (which I just assume had corrupted/history parts not inspired writings from God; Lot's daughters, Solomon's Songs, etc -seems obvious) and let us not forget some submissive rules for wives attributed to Paul and Peter. But Christ taught God is no respecter of persons, the greatest should be the servant. We actually went one week to a church where the pastor taught about submissive wives. I felt sick, then I studied. Paul's letter was to a particular church for a particularly sticky situation of a Christian woman married to a non-Christian man. Pastor didn't mention that. He also didn't mention that some contest whether Paul wrote this at all. Oh and wasn't it Paul who wrote that they see through a glass dimly? We are told it is the word from God but after seeing what immoral men do in the name of that God, it creates distrust.

The teachings of Christ in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John ring true and help corroborate each other. I wonder how corrupted other sections are. It gets overwhelming sometimes and I don't want to give up but sometimes I think I am not even sure who this God is that I am praying to. Sometimes I fear to wonder what really is the truth.

This journey started with a prayer and what I thought was an answer. I am getting exhausted, it is difficult dealing with all these crazy transitional issues then family and more jumping in telling us we must have sinned or they are upset. We haven't even told some because it has been such a hard time for us and we know it would be for them, and we don't even have solid answers at this time. Although, I also want to share the truth. Sorry this is long, I have been reading these posts for a few months and have greatly appreciated your words. They have been a great support!

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: March 01, 2017 04:33PM

A little bit off your topic, maybe, but this morning I go on Facebook and there's a post by a friend about his son leaving on his mission to Australia "to serve as an emissary for Christ."

I immediately thought: "No frikkin' way--he's off to convert people into obedient tithe-payers uinder the *guise* of Christ!"

Then it occurred to me that this smart guy, a medical doctor, who was BIC, simply doesn't know any better--he really, literally, thinks Jesus Christ runs his church and God dictated all those stupid, silly rules.

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Posted by: Agnes Broomhead ( )
Date: March 05, 2017 12:50PM

Exactly!
And that's why guys like Sivulka, Bartosiewicz and Shafovaloff do what they do.

I like these testimonies about TBMs visiting a Christian church and then discovering the REAL Jesus.

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Posted by: Happy_Heretic ( )
Date: March 01, 2017 04:57PM

Any "testimony" regardless of the religious, or other assertion is nonsense. Just because someone has a strong "feeling" or "desire" for something to be true does not make it so. Mormons are not alone in their nonsense. Christ is a mythological figure upon which the gullible project their desire to avoid death and live with loved ones forever. It bullshit. Get on with your life. You deserve it... those you love deserve it, and the truth demands it.

HH =)

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Posted by: presleynfactsrock ( )
Date: March 01, 2017 05:49PM

Congrats on stepping out of the box of dictated rules into the world of thinking for yourself and seeking facts. It is a fascinating journey that will take you to amazing new sights and thoughts, but there will be obstacles, decisions to be made and people who will try to tell you your journey is devious and wrong.

Hang in there, and take your time. No need to be a hurry because the truth will be there waiting for you to discover.

Wishing you the best.

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Posted by: Tall Man, Short Hair ( )
Date: March 01, 2017 06:53PM

I wish you the best in your contemplation of these things. Reexamining religion after Mormonism is a bit like starting to date again after you divorced your serial killer wife. Nobody will blame you if you worry that some or all of the other women out there may also be serial killers.

My path was a wandering one. It got simple in rejecting it all, complicated in wondering if any of it was true, and ultimately pretty simple again. C.S. Lewis helped me some to regain my wonder about the amazing world and the ease to see it as a special creation instead of a lucky accident. I found the core message about Jesus and forgiveness to be more likely true than not.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: March 01, 2017 07:14PM

Spiritual belief is a journey, not a destination. Feel free to take your time about it and to take breaks as needed.

As far as your family, I would let them be upset. They are entitled to their feelings. But their upset need not be your upset.

If anyone has the gall to say to your face that you must have "sinned," I would simply tell them that the Mormon faith does not align with your own personal standards for honesty, transparency, and moral integrity. Tell them that they are free to draw a different conclusion, but you are also entitled to your point of view about it.

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Posted by: Stephie ( )
Date: March 02, 2017 10:02AM

Good luck on your journey, I know it can be incredibly bewildering. For what it's worth, I believe the spiritual experiences we have both within Mormonism and outside it are real, but how we interpret them is what is often faulty. I hope you will continue on in your prayer life. I have found my prayers after leaving Mormonism to be about ten times richer and more edifying than they were before. It's like being freed from shackles in your mind and spirit.

Here is one book I suggest to continue your journey in the Christian faith: "The Divine Conspiracy: Rediscovering Our Hidden Life With God" by Dallas Willard. He takes a few chapters to build his case, but his explanation of the Sermon on the Mount and the teachings of Jesus will give you a totally new and fresh perspective. Can't recommend it enough.

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: March 02, 2017 10:06AM

Hi Turbo, I feel exactly as you do: I don't feel comfortable trying out any other man-made organized religion right now, after just leaving the church/cult. It was my experience, the second I left TSCC, that things became more clear to me and my family. The church acts like the Old Testament God: vindictive,jealous,easy to get angry if you so much as crossed the line with your little toe. Standoffish,and unforgiving. The New Testament's Yeshua Ben Joseph is the opposite. IMO, the Old Testament is more allegorical, and the New Testament is one that I take a little more literally, but that's my opinion. It's still a journey that we're all on. As a family, we've had some experiences that I can't get into detail right now, but we were not drunk at the time, or any drugs,prescribed or otherwise. Wishing you the best on this crazy journey called life.

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Posted by: anonuk ( )
Date: March 02, 2017 11:37AM

The mormon church hi-jacked the promise in matthew 18:20 and use it to suit their purpose. Here's a link to the scripture and various commentaries on the same:

http://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/18-20.htm

The reason they do not really encourage reading the bible is - apart from the excuse that it's not translated correctly - because the bible undermines the fake authority the mormon church claims to hold and contradicts much 'doctrine' (or 'policy'). Most converts do not know their bible and most BIC do not read their bible either, since the emphasis is on the 'inspired' D&C or BOM.

All organised religion is just another means to control groups of people. Some congregations provide the fellowship some people need, but everyone can do without the false fair-weather fellowship of being a mormon.

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Posted by: notmonotloggedin ( )
Date: March 02, 2017 11:50AM

as a full picture of the "exmo" experience. There are many of us who have left Mormonism having found truth in the pages of the Bible. DH and I are Christians first above anything else and hold to the orthodox teaches that have defined belief in Christ down through the centuries. We hold fast to our faith. However, my participation on this board (limited though it is) is an anomaly mainly due to a bit of "ocd-ism" on my part and a huge TBM in-law family who I have allowed to "annoy" me.

Most who frequent this board are atheist and many are hostile to any religious belief whatsoever. I encourage you to seek out exmo Christian sites so that you can get a better of idea of what those who have left Mormonism and sought Christ believe.

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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: March 02, 2017 12:10PM

Remember, Turbo, people loved God long before there was even a Bible.

I got tired of oxcarts,
handcarts,
pioneers,
boy scouts,
golden plates,
genealogy,
TITHING
girls camp,
trek,
pinewood derby,
garments,
TITHING,
Joseph Smith,
Brigham Young,
Monson's widows,
food storage,
TITHING,
Nephites,
Lamanites,
dark skin,
white skin,
word of wisdom,
sacred underwear,
persecutions,
priesthood,
temples,
testimony travel logs,
testimony surgery logs,
sealings,
missionaries,
Hail to the Man
baptisms for the dead,
TITHING ....

........... the name of Jesus Christ was only bookends for the meeting.

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Posted by: 6 iron ( )
Date: March 02, 2017 12:30PM

After a lifetime of being tbm, TM, RM, tbm kids....then wife divorcing me for no real reason...

I left because I stepped out of the box and looked at tbm family, leaders, wife...and realized that something was wrong with Mormons...seriously wrong.

So this is what I did. I forgot everything taught to me, etc, and read one of the Gospels. I needed to understand what Jesus was trying to communicate.

And I was actually shocked. So I read until I understood, and this is what I discovered, that Mormonism doesn't understand Jesus' message, and neither do other churches.

Jesus was very specific about what he expects us to do..
Love God

You absolutely have to treat others the way you want to be treated. You can't victimize, take advantage of, manipulate, abuse verbally, emotionally....

The leader is the servant, He washed his apostles feet

Whoever exalts himself will be abased, whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

The harlots and publican go to heaven before the chief priests scribes and Pharisees. Because they need the perks of being a leader and the glory.

There is only a reward in heaven if you help those in NEED, AND do it anonymously. You have to do good to glorify heaven, and NOT yourself.

We are all equal, in that we all sin and all depend on the atonement. We can't save ourselves by works.

If we brag how good we are, and better than others, that is wrong. We need to bow our heads and ask God for forgiveness for our sins.

Mormons only help other mormons, and they usually aren't in need, like helping a doctor move into your ward. They brag and look down on and punish sinners. They think because they have TR they automatically go to heaven. Jesus isn't the focus on who gets to heaven, but that they are a Mormon with a TR.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: March 04, 2017 07:47PM

6 iron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So this is what I did. I forgot everything taught
> to me, etc, and read one of the Gospels. I needed
> to understand what Jesus was trying to
> communicate.

Bravo, 6-Iron. Your sentiment brought this to mind for me:

"You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart" (Jer. 29.13 ESV). What Gospel was it? I recommend Luke's for people who are new to Biblical Christianity, as it's a good balance between Christ's teachings, his temporal and miraculous works, and his reaching out to people outside the pale of Pharisaic Judaism: women, the sick and infirm, Greeks and Romans, and--especially--sinners. Also, the longest and most detailed.

Trails End (below) Luke did not know Christ personally, either. He was a physician and self-appointed chronicler of Christ's life. Take a quick look at Luke's first chapter.
>
> And I was actually shocked. So I read until I
> understood, and this is what I discovered, that
> Mormonism doesn't understand Jesus' message, and
> neither do other churches.
>
> Jesus was very specific about what he expects us
> to do..
> Love God

I have a analogy of my own creation I use to illustrate Christian orthodoxy. Did you know that the word "sin" derives from an archery term, meaning, "to miss the mark?" Think of Christian doctrine as an archery target, with a black dot in the center, and various rings of different colors surrounding it. Just off the ring furthest out is "the white," which is on the target PAPER but has no scoring value whatsoever. Then there is the hay bale it's probably mounted on. No score there, either.

The very center is Christ Himself. To hit that point is to be perfect. None of us can do that, but we want to keep practicing so we get as close as possible to that center point as possible. Practice also develops proper habits, so your archery (i.e. Christian life) skills become reflexively better.

That center dot--Jesus Christ--has two axes leading away, one horizontal and the other vertical.

The horizontal axis is the "works" aspect of the Gospel. Christ had much to say about how to live, behave, and do our "works," but we Christians are still sinners, and we tend to go too far one direction or another. As you follow the "works" axis to the left, you get into the "social justice gospel," a.k.a. "liberation theology." We want to advance justice and mercy, but as you get further and further to the left, you have less and less Jesus, and more and more "social works," which is where I think a lot of liberal churches are, and others, such as Dorothy Day's Catholic Worker Movement. Go far enough left, and you're off the target--you've lost Christ completely--such as the Unitarians.

Take that horizontal axis to the right, and you get into the conservative churches with an emphasis on morality and piety. At a certain point, you're so caught up on a pharisaical sense or religious rectitude, your head is so far up your moral rectum you've lost sight of Jesus.

We want to be as centered and balanced as Christ is. To those on the left, I would ask: "When did you last lead somebody to faith in Christ? Or have you been preoccupied with your virtue-signaling 'good works?'" I challenge those on the right with the question, "When did you last help somebody without having the unspoken agenda of having them join your particular church?"

The vertical axis is theological: going upwards, you find people having a very high, ethereal, often worshiped through/via intermediaries and defined in highly intellectual terms. Go too far in this direction, and God is so remote you can't relate to Him. Take the vertical axis downward, and you have an increasingly "low" Christology. There's a decreasing sense of God's power, majesty, and mystery, and religion is defined in terms of personal experience, mostly positive. Here you'll find very long church services with numerous preachers, music specials, long prayers, and lots of VERY loud praise choruses.

Again, we want to be centered on both axes, not too high (mystical and/or cerebral) or low (too emotive and experiential).

Then there are the cults and false religions. My apologies for possibly slighting Unitarians, but this is a Christian thread, and I've never met a Unitarian who considered himself Christian. LDS, Christian Science, JWs, Bahais, Scientology aren't even on the target--they're in the hay bale at best, or off the target completely.

For all you ex-Mos who have found the real Jesus, the Biblical one, the Christ of time and eternity, keep focusing on that very center of the target, improving your aim with prayer Bible study, profitable reading, and good fellowship, which includes joining a church that advances the gospel in its members and in the community. My archery target analogy applies to local churches, also.

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Posted by: turbo ( )
Date: March 02, 2017 01:02PM

Thank you, all of you! It really is an experience that makes me question everything at times. I am grateful to not be alone! I am done worshiping a church, Christ as my focus is why I left. What is the worse that can happen if I spend my life trying to love and serve others in humility? Everyone has their take on what is required to enter heaven, that gets a little frustrating. I love the simplicity of Christ's teachings, they ring true and they just make sense to me.

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Posted by: Trails end ( )
Date: March 02, 2017 04:56PM

Probly in the seventies i began my quest for christ in earnest...i too was quickened by the simple loving rules of the new testament...only to find the same discrepancies to stories told supposedly by the ones who knew christ best...further study found these tales were written decades later and Paul whom we idolized and quoted hadnt met him at all...Paul who claimed we all should be single as he was...oh boy...so now a nut job with hallucinations becomes our go to guy...if it works for you im thrilled...it just felt too much like moism...its all made up...and the points dont matter...but preaching christ has made fortunes for those with the gift of gab...for the little people paying for the big house and jet...not so much...meet joel osteen...i guess thats his name...just another bser i mo...final straw was mathew or mark living in egypt and throwing in a little horus to appeal to the locals...typical...just typical...might wanna look into the dyonisus and mythros stories to round out your belief a bit...coincidence...or just more propa ganda

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Posted by: brianberkeley ( )
Date: March 05, 2017 02:41PM

Dude,

You might want to bone up on Christian history. Start with the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD and work up to the present through the 30 years war, witch burning, inquisition, etc.

You will talk yourself out of an attachment to a religion that has killed millions.

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