What do you do after BYU and resigning the church? What do you do with a general studies degree? Even if I had finished the English degree... what do you do with that? I think I was so consumed with my religious anxieties, I forgot that one day, one way or another, my undergrad days would end and I would need to go out into the world and provide for myself somehow.

I just spent the last hour reading articles about the cold hard reality of humanities degrees and job prospects. Should I continue my education somewhere? In what? English? I don't know... all that debt and what job prospects to show for it?

I'm glad for the time I had to read and research and study and get good at analyzing information and reaching out to people by explaining my thoughts and feelings. It has affected who I am forever. But... did I waste my time at BYU?

I have had so much anxiety, awful awful anxiety, since I was kid. It seems I was doomed to be an anxious person, and Mormonism is not fully to blame for that. But it is a fact that Mormonism took up so much of my time, so much of my mind, and so much of my stress for so long... and it didn't help my anxiety problems. If it didn't make them worse, it really set me back. But I think it did make them worse.

I feel like all my accomplishments in life are purely in the personal development department and I still need a lot of work.

Everyone keeps telling me I'm so young. But I'm 28 now. In two years, I'll be 30. I haven't really been giving the necessary thought and effort into a career. Right now, I'm doing the same service job I used to have. I hate it.

Not feeling a lot of hope right now. I'm just taking it day to day, fighting with my anxiety to do my blue collar job without having any panic attacks. I'm so close to family and to my old prisons and triggers. Would I be happier if I just upped and moved elsewhere? I've thought of settling in Phoenix and seeing if I can get into Arizona's ailing public education system somewhere. Az sure isn't paying its teachers a whole lot right now, but there are plenty of job openings.

I guess I had delusions of academia when I applied to BYU in the first place. I thought I was going to be a FARMS guy, or a CES instructor at least, or... maybe a professor at BYU? Then the first year broadsided me. And in the second, I started addressing my doubts about Mormonism... the rest of it is all on this board.

I feel different from others. I feel like I was made for academia, maybe. Someone once commented on one of my posts that they would hunt my down if I didn't do something with my writing. I don't know if I'm particularly gifted in any way that someone would pay me money for anything I can do. I have a college degree now, from an obscure religious college with an emphasis in nothing in particular, and shit list of blue collar crap on my resume. I struggle personally to express myself to begin with, but there's also this whole religious vs. post-religious thing. Who am I? Who is my tribe? If I could say what I was, what is my relationship to other tribes? Oh boy. So much to think about.

I'm struggling on what I should do as well after I recover from my surgeries I want to get the hell out of where I am I thought of arizona as Well cause I lived there most of my life and there is no God damn snow there which is a big deal right now for happiness. And I got more friends down there and the church is less suffocating down there as well just thinking about it right now sounds like a great idea.

Go to law school.
They are easy to get into right now, and post graduation job prospects are improving.
You will be able to do good for people and get paid well for it.

For one thing, the anxiety levels he describes suggest he would be miserable in law school and later, in the cut-throat and amoral world of litigation. I don't think OP belongs in a working life that is by nature adversarial. He has said himself that he feels at home in academia. That's as far a mentality from lawyering as you can get. As for job prospects for attorneys improving, from what to what? It has been dismal for years for large numbers of graduates. Another thing, job satisfaction for lawyers is very low. Many lawyers are deeply unhappy in their jobs.

OP, the Arizona thing sounds good. New climate, new folks, the educational environment you know you enjoy. What's stopping you? Make your start, earn your living, reassess in a few years.

I agree, the thing about law is that the system is cranking out too many lawyers right now. The cost is like $17,000 a year just for a state college like the U. And there is no guarantee. If you don't have connections, and know the right people, have the right name, don't even consider law, you'll get scammed.

A Master's in English would just make you an unemployed person with a graduate degree. My niece did that. She is now a professional chef, although she did do a small amount of writing for a major newspaper.

Liberal arts majors often go into outside sales. You might also check with the government (in this case the state government, since the Feds currently have a hiring freeze.) BYUI's placement office might still be able to help you, even if you're a graduate.

If you go back to school, make it for an employable skill. Run any prospective careers by the people on this board. Probably someone on the board has done it or knows people who do it. I would NOT recommend teaching as a career, particularly for an introvert. Teaching is a high stress profession that is best suited to extroverts who can keep 20 balls up in the air without breaking a sweat.


Try to find a career path that aligns with your temperament. If you are an introvert, you don't want a job that has you dealing with huge crowds of people.

If you were "made for academia," you need to pursue a masters and PhD, anyway, so move on to the next step. In liberal arts, an undergraduate degree normally doesn't do you much good, particularly one in general studies. That sounds good coming from a guy like me, I know, the very guy who didn't follow that advice. But I left BYU at a young age and already burdened with a family. And it was a combination of military, serendipity, and dumb luck that led me into my life. But if academia calls, then you have to answer by putting your money up there and matriculating. You know, the M-word.

A PhD in English will do no good. There are lots and lots of English PhD's running around patching together adjunct jobs at community colleges and other colleges. They are earning *nothing.* They would be better off from a financial standpoint if they were working as high school English teachers. The only PhDs who are getting tenure track positions have stellar credentials (i.e. Ivy League school backgrounds.) I can't speak for the other humanities, but I imagine the situation is rather similar. Universities have tightened up considerably on tenure-track positions.

English majors make great computer programmers. Legible, documented code counts for more than being clever. Hiring managers would be wise to look for English writing experts and bring them up to speed on coding.

As well as technical writers.

corporate trainers....

Had I to do my career over again I would be a technical corporate trainer......

Anyone can write a paper. But can an English person understand the math? Usually that's the trouble, is that they shy away from hard subjects where you have to think. And prove you actually know something, not BS through, like English majors do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2017 08:36PM by poopstone.

Would it be wise to go back and finish that and get some programming certifications in the side?

The tech world has a constant debate with itself - is a degree necessary to achieve success in programming or related fields? Same question for "certifications". Probably the majority of the people I've worked with in tech do have college degrees (~90%?). And probably a small majority (~51-60%) of those have a related degree (Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, etc.).

So, I'd say it's not necessary for you to have a "technical" degree to get started in tech. What you do have to have, though, is the ability to show the employer that you can think logically through a problem, one or more solutions to that problem, and the ramifications of each solution. (Sometimes the solution is worse than the original problem!) If you can do that, and communicate well on top of that, you'll likely do well in a technical field.

Or more briefly, the certifications may help, but they're not necessary.

Some states, Georgia for instance, are so short of teachers they will allow you to start teaching with the agreement you work towards your teaching qualifications either on line or night classes and complete within two years. Good opportunity to share with young your passion in the humanities. That is what a career is- passion in motion.

Gatorman
9-4
23-5
3-1

Peace Corps (see below).

I append what I said above. Here's what you really, really--really-- need to do: Join the Peace Corps. Two years of rewarding work off in some interesting part of the world, training, transportation, health care, and living expenses paid, plus a stipend. Of course, you're not living as an American normally lives, but that's half the point. Unlike serving as a Mormon missionary, people will respect you when you return from a Peace Corps assignment, and it will look great to a grad school. I had planned to do this when I retire, but sadly, they don't take people who have served in certain government agencies, the only thing that prevents me.

Am I mistaken or don't you need to bring a skill/education to the Peace Corp these days? Like forestry or whatever. I didn't think they just took smart people and trained them, I thought they put people to work who had degrees and experience in needed (practical) fields.

Naw, they welcome many types, mostly based on desire to volunteer. They prefer people with educations, but not necessarily specific ones. Since I really thought I would be doing it myself, I researched it a lot. It was something I planned to do to sort of redeem the two years wasted on Mormon missionary work. It would have meant two years' separation, but I was ready to do it.

That was my understanding as well. I don't think it's like a Mormon mission where they just take everyone that signs up. I have friends that applied after college and were turned down.

I got a degree in English and minors in speech and communications. Afterwards, I joined the Peace Corps and spent two years in Armenia teaching English and working on side projects. When I got back, I had pretty serious depression and anxiety. I later went to grad school and earned two master's degrees, one in public health and the other in social work. While I was in school, I met my ex Mormon husband, who was then in the Army. I'm now an overeducated housewife. :-). Fortunately, my husband has been helping me pay off my loans.

If I hadn't met my husband, I feel pretty sure that I would be employed, though maybe not in a job I would have loved. Because of what he does for a living, we are living in Germany. I am still an overeducated housewife, because jobs for spouses are in short supply. Frankly, I don't need to work for us to survive fairly comfortably. I spend my time writing and making music, which was why I got an English degree in the first place. Sometimes, I even make a little money from my writing.

The Peace Corps is a good option if you are prepared for it. It was difficult for me, as Armenia was pretty rough in the 90s. I can't deny that the experience changed my life. Also, last year I got in touch with one of my former students and my first Armenian teacher. They both work for the Peace Corps and let me know that my presence in their country is still remembered twenty years later. That means a lot to me.

It's not necessarily easy to get into the Peace Corps. You have to be medically and legally qualified as well as financially prepared. The lifestyle can be difficult and even dangerous. Just as some Mormon missionaries don't make it back home alive or totally healthy, sometimes Peace Corps Volunteers end up in harm's way or bring home an exotic medical condition that may or may not be curable. But if you can do it and the work interests you, it can change your life for the better.

The Peace Corps introduced me to a whole different group of people, not just those in my host country, but those with whom I served. It opened my eyes to the world and gave me the opportunity to travel beyond my wildest dreams. I never aspired to anything beyond having a "normal" life in America with a job and maybe a family. I now live in Europe and get to see places I never thought I'd see. If I hadn't served in the Peace Corps, I'm not sure I'd be where I am now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2017 12:20AM by knotheadusc.

Cold-Dodger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who am I?

Jean Val jean?

> Who is my tribe?

Prisoners, a prostitute, her daughter, and a revolutionary boyfriend?

> If I could say what I was, what is my relationship to other tribes?

I believe you are of the species Homo Sapien Sapiens? You could be an alien or artificially intelligent computer?


Lighten up. You act like 30 is a death sentence. Enjoy life. Hell, rejoin the church if you must. I don't advise it but you read like you might really like taking the discussions again and again and maybe a third time to make the sure sign of the nail.

Peace Corps (see above).

Haha...good one berry...where ever you go...there you are...we get so focused on the destination we miss the trip...so you went 900 miles in 19.8 hours...did you see that bristle cone pine likely 900 years old on that rocky outcrop in montana...did you see that little herd of elk in that secluded clearing near boise...rejoice young man...cludgie gave you a get out of jail free card...your not leaving school with a young dependant family...now thats pressure...as summer said hows your juggling...academia can be rewarding...unless your like my old man..phd couldnt take the heat but had to stay in a job he hated cuz school...seems adults are maturing at afar slower rate than they used to...options are something i dont remember...married young...kids quick...get a job..any job...head down ass up...ever worked a gut room at a beef packing plant...boy does that give you perspective and so mind numbingly boring...you have lots of time to think of where youd rather be...unless your trimming tripe...yeah google it..some folks like eating stomach lining...maybe too many options just causes confusion...sounds like id head for georgia if i were you...but thats just me

Phoenix = Shite hole of universe. Tucson is great.

A large part of Tucson is a dirt hole full of trailer parks and bad roads. There are some good areas though. If you're into big city type "culture", it's probably not for you. If you're into good weather most of the year, and tons of outdoor stuff to do, it's one of the best places in the country.

Like everyone said an English degree will get you nowhere in life except no one will yell at you for run-on sentences and punctuation errors on this board so it isn't a total waste of time so I say go for it and teach an English class somewhere Arizona is the place and I'll probably meet up with you eventually down there cause it will not stop snowing up here it's getting ridiculous.

:-)

Still, diagramming sentences is great fun.

Yea diagramming my sentence is great fun for everyone.

Good one. Sentences can be forever sometimes.

Teaching is a good profession. In many areas of the country it's a critical shortage area as well.

With a Master's degree or Ph.D it will make you more marketable in a specialized field, or over qualified, depending on supply and demand.

You should still follow your dreams.

My Political Science professor as an undergrad would give that advice to all his students he mentored.

It is better to be a poor geologist, for example, if that's what you would love doing. Than become an attorney and hate your job.

Also in a bad economy and times of deep recessions, I've learned to be realistic in my expectations.

I didn't attain a high powered job, for instance, despite my having advanced degrees.

I've held on by a toe hold to the same job for nearly three decades because of stability, not because I like my job per se. But it has been my bread and butter and otherwise provided for the necessitites all these years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2017 12:23PM by Amyjo.

IT is still a hot demand field.

Getting a vocational certificate in some specialty showing a certain set of computer skills that's currently in demand could lead to a job that would hopefully be permanent, or an in-between to something else.

One of my children's best friends did that. Got a 2-year vocational certificate in IT, and now designs computer games (he became self-employed after a Kick-Starter campaign helped him launch his first video game.)

2 years IT certificate. That was his level of post-high school education.

There's other fields in IT - with a wide range of potential jobs. Something to consider that wouldn't require a Master's degree or post graduate. You might even be able to take a class at a time while keeping the job you're currently at. Depending on the program.

>>Teaching is a good profession.

Not for someone with high anxiety levels. I would also argue that it's a poor fit for introverted people or for those who don't have stellar organizational skills. It's a high stress profession. I say that as a teacher with more than two decades under my belt in eight different schools in two different school districts. My resume also demonstrates experience in other jobs, including sales. Honestly, I don't know of a single experienced teacher who would recommend the job to *anyone.*

However as a stopgap (for a couple of years in a high shortage area of the country,) it can work. I would just plan on moving on after 2-3 years.

I heard today that Las Vegas is paying insane wages in order to attract teachers. I have no idea if that's true or not.

Sorry, I don't know your history, but are you getting professional help for the anxiety? Don't carry that monkey on your back if you don't have to.

Go to community college for a one year tech skills training program. My two kids did this and they both have good careers based on their GIS qualifications plus the fact that they have degrees.

Yes, you are still young. If you are still open to more education, transfer all the credit you can to another good school, then put that towards another degree....one that pays well for a bachelors degree.

A B.S. would be good....engineering, sciences, etc.

Business, finance, etc.

You could knock that out in a few years and be done....and off to a better paying career.

I was a bit of a "late bloomer"....started college at 24, finished right before my 30th birthday....got a B.S. and have worked as an manufacturing and/or Quality engineer for the last 26 years....never missed a days work for not having a job and it pays well :)

If you want to do academia, then you're going to need a graduate degree in something technical. Maybe you should consider going to your career advisement office and taking some assessments, even joining the military for a few years, maybe doing some foreign travel in a way that might help you broaden your horizons. Yes, you are a little old to be doing some of those things. But until you have a real goal that will get you to where you want to go, continuing your education may not be helpful either.

So it seems to be:

An excellent writer, change-adverse, highly anxious, seeking a tribe.

Startnow says:

CD, keep doing your well-known but hated current job, but start applying eveywhere for editorial internships and part-time jobs. It doesn't have to be all-or-nothing.

You don't have to start at the top and make buckets of money. You have to find something you enjoy, has growth potential, and keeps a roof over your head. Are you currently working 40 hours a week? Think you might do 60, if the additional 20 were something you really enjoyed, something that engaged you?

What about volunteering at a youth center? Helping youth is one of your strong suits, and joys, right? Some of the things you've written lead me to believe that you miss that aspect of your family very much. A LOT of kids could benefit from a compassionate, passionate fellow like you.

It's about putting yourself in positions where the best "you" comes shining through, as you network with people of like minds. If those "like minds" don't ever meet you, don't know that you exist, they can't think of you when that "perfect job" comes along.

You have to put yourself out there, but you can do that in environments where you will shine, not cold-calling for positions 500 other people are vying for. Go. Volunteer, find out where you fit.

This is nonsense--YOU CAN get good jobs with an English degree in editing and writing. I have a MA in English from BYU from way back in the 80s--but I knew I wanted to be an editor. So I did publication internships, took editing classes, learned how to proofread and copyedit. I graduated on Friday and went to work on Monday. I am now almost 60 and have been gainfully employed since age 25--been through a few layoffs, but never unemployed for more than a month.

If you decide you want to get some practical editing and publications skills, I'd go over to UVU. (I don't want to give away my identity, but I can vouch for these classes and the skills students leave the university with.) Take their editing classes, their design classes. You might be able do this in two semesters. Their professors in that program are awesome.

Best wishes to you.

Provo Girl, may I ask -- do you work in print or online? Or both? Are you still in Utah or in one of the publishing centers, i.e. New York City?

One of my roommates in NYC back in the 80s worked for a major book publisher there. She used to bring home stacks of manuscripts and would farm some of them out to me for reading and evaluation in my preferred genre.

Summer, I have worked as a technical writer and editor. I am not involved in magazine or book publishing.

+1000

Cold-Dodger, I can tell from your posts that you're a very bright, talented young man. It sounds like you know what you *don't* want. That gives you a decent starting point, and it will help motivate you in the future.

Believe it or not, the fact you're so worried about your future is a good thing. A "quarter-life crisis" can be a compelling force for positive change as we move into our 30s. At this moment in your life, you're exactly where you need to be.

Personally, I would caution against going back to academia unless you're 100% certain that's what you want to do. I've seen too many people from our generation go back to grad school because they weren't sure what they wanted, only to end up switching careers anyway with a load of debt on their backs.

If there's a particular program or school you're really interested in, do a Google search to find people who've done similar things, and reach out to them via email to see if they'd be willing to talk to you for 10 minutes. The same applies for particular fields, jobs and companies. In my experience, most people are happy to give their two cents (for real, this board is living proof of that lol).

If you feel like you need to change your surroundings and get a fresh start, you're probably right. Several people have recommending things like the Peace Corp. Research some of those avenues and see if they interest you. Those types of programs can provide stability while sending you somewhere new. Better yet, they look great on a resume and give you a chance to acquire new skills. (Speaking from personal experience, spending a couple of months in Poland and then moving to Japan for a few years helped me put some things into perspective and also get a better idea of what I want my life to look like 10 years from now.)

If you're interested in learning new skills, the Internet makes it easier than ever. Read books. Take online courses. The best investment you'll ever make is in yourself.

"I Will Teach You To Be Rich" by Ramit Sethi gave me a lot of easy, practical tips about personal finance and completely changed the way I thought about money. "The Quarter-Life Breakthrough" by Smiley Poswolsky takes a positive spin on the quarter-life crisis by sharing stories of young 20 and 30-somethings who were unhappy and how they turned their lives around for the better.

There are people who've been in the same situation as you. There's no need to re-invent the wheel when you can use other people's lives and experiences as a basic blueprint of what to do next. Once you figure out what you want your life to look like in 10 years, I believe finding a tribe will come more naturally as you gravitate toward people with the same values.

In any case, please try to be patient with yourself. Figuring this stuff out is a process and can take time. I wish you the best.

I know this is a fairly radical idea, but have you considered going to a Technical School to learn a skill? Think about carpentry, welding, plumbing, electrical work, cooking, baking, sewing, aeronautics ???? Doing something with your hands?

I'm a mom of multiple kids right now. And they are ALL super-super smart (and that's not mom-bragging). As they are reaching the high school years, I've thought a lot about things. YES they will likely go into medicine, law, and engineering and eventually get advanced degrees. But what can they DO ?? And how can I help them not end up with "useless" degrees and no real SKILLS ??

So in order to help them, I'm going to insist they attend some sort of Vocational training alongside their regular academics (it's easier since we homeschool). I want them to experience what being around aeronautics, welding, electronics, and all sorts of things is really like before delving into the world of academics.

So many of our VocTech high schools are closed down which in my opinion is a national tragedy, but these experiences can be found at many of our community colleges. Even if you start a program while you are still looking for "academic" work, at least you will be learning something that can put food on the table. You may end up really LOVING your new trade.

There is ALWAYS time to write and continue your studies. Education is lifelong, but needing to have a job if done right, doesn't need to be lifelong if you are wise about your finances.

Go teach health in Ethopia. Here are the requirements:

Required Skills

"Qualified candidates will have an expressed interest in working in the health sector and one or more of the following criteria:
• Bachelor of Arts/Bachelor of Science degree in any field "

Restrictions:

"The following medication(s) are not permitted for legal or cultural reasons: Adderall, Ritalin and Vyvanse."

Other requirements: Be able to walk or ride a bike to work.

Housing: Possibly dirt floor, living like a local. BUT, your needs are taken care of, you get a stipend, etc. Then you come home with something real to put on your resume, and loads of respect.

Eithiopia? Where do you go to figure something like that out?

Peace Corps website!!

You could do what I did, get a high stress job (like summer mentioned) then last a few years, snap out of it, and then head into retail. I started at the bottom and worked my way up and went into Warehouse work. The pay is great! Contrary to popular opinion, Warehouses are filled with introverts, it's a tough job, and everyone has a great deal of intelligence, and problem solving skills. We are all motivated. It's self directed individualized work. And it's quiet. Quiet people work in shipping and receiving, that's what I've found.

Retail scares me.

Go into academia. You can get a scholarship for a master's program. You can also get into a Ph.D. occasionally with a bachelor's degree. Don't worry about being 28. I started my Ph.D. at 24 and I was BY FAR the youngest, it was actually sort of weird to be there so young. Most people were 33+, some in their 40s.

I worked in publishing before grad school. That is also an option.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2017 12:15AM by Loyalexmo.