In another thread, the poster "anybody" opined on Melania Trump's recital of the Lord's prayer at a political campaign rally:

"This is using religion as a weapon to divide and polarise America.

"Government and religion should and must be separate."

That reminded me of the time when that dastardly, evil former president Franklin D. Roosevelt delivered a prayer on June 6, 1944, when the Allied troops were invading the Normandy beaches on their way to liberating Europe from the Nazis:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=16515

OH MY GOD!!!!! How DARE an American president use his office as a religious platform!!!! And did you read what Roosevelt said in his prayer?!? He said "With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy." OH NOES!!!! Roosevelt called the Nazis the "unholy forces of our enemy"!!!!! That's ETHNICALLY INSENSITIVE!!! He called Germans "UNHOLY"!!! How could the American people allow a bigot like Roosevelt to remain in office?!? Surely, Roosevelt must have been mentally ill, and the VP or the congress should have removed him from office.

I'm amazed that the USA and democratic nations all over the globe managed to survive this direct violation of the edict to keep church and state separate!!!

Oh, for Christ's sake.

People need myths to get through tough times, sometimes. Doesn't make it any less silly or more true. It's fine that he prayed, I guess, but it's meaningless IMO. Wasn't going to help a damn thing. I don't think religion has a place in the real world. It's private business.

I'm not sure what current parallel one could draw to the latter part of your comment. He didn't call Germans unholy, only Nazis; nor did he assume all Germans were Nazis. German civilians were not considered our enemies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 02:28PM by Loyalexmo.

I personally believe that prayer helps, and prayer helped our nation. Note that Roosevelt (and our nation!) was far, far from Mormonism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 02:44PM by brigidbarnes.

...if your president, governor, or local mayor was a practicing muslim, hindu or buddhist and referred to his own religion the whole damn time?

Because that is what happens in America now. Religion is everywhere and people have become used to it, but imagine the words "THERE ARE NO GODS" on all your banknotes. That is how shocking it should be to have money saying "IN GOD WE TRUST" as Americans do now.

The nazis, btw, printed the same bloody thing on their money: "GOTT MIT UNS".

They don't bother me unless they're directed at me personally or if I'm forced to fold my arms, bow my head, say, "Amen, I believe."

My attitude about prayer is rather negative because I was slapped around as kid for not taking it as seriously as the mormon adults around me.

It cheapens the seriousness of the situation for me.

How would you feel if the President prayed to Mickey Mouse and then sent your kid off to war? Not thrilled? That's how it feels to me.


I get that politicians need to use God to justify their actions and somehow that makes the people feel better about it.

I find it to be manipulation at worst or delusion at best.

Stupid humans.

You just had to post this on the 75th anniversary of FDR's infamous Exec Order 9066, which ordered the internment of innocent Japanese-American citizens. That order was in fact "dastardly" and "evil" and among the low points of American history.

For the record, these prayers are IMO benign and harmless. I have no problem with them. Still, I shouldn't have to point out that (1) the First Lady is not the President, and (2) a political rally is not the invasion of Normandy. That you can even compare the two, I can only attribute to blind partisanship. Randy, I really thought you were better than this.

[Note to admin: Although it's a worthwhile experiment, the loosening of the "no politics" policy is (in my view) not working. This thread is a prime example.]

Yep--this was a partisan rally, not a prayer of comfort in a time of tragedy. Comparing them...yikes.

I agree with synonymous. There's countless other boards where people who feel like provoking others with political taunts can get on with their shit-stirring. Make it go away again, admin.

I also agree with synonymous.

The original post was written in a way that was provoking an argument.

What is the point in that?

Instead of saying "prayer" or "God", the president could simply importune the "Higher Power". That could cover all religions and be okay for those with no religion.

"Higher Power," like at an AA meeting? Funny. From a President who doesn't smoke, drink, or do drugs.

If you take it in historical context, Thomas Jefferson wanted separation between church and state so that the church wouldn't become corrupted by the state. Compassion is the job of the church, not the state.

It seems to me that the Marvel Universe is filling the role of religion these days. Nobody has to pretend that Thor is a real guy, and we get all the classic morality tales. Not just Marvel. More people than not know what you're talking about when you discuss Sam carrying Frodo up Mount Doom.

Right now America is a deeply divided, polarised nation on the brink of mass unrest and social upheaval.

Given the situation, a sane adult President wouldn't try to exacerbate the situation by opening a rally with a prayer -- even if he was legally able to do so.

Trump is a narcissist megalomaniac with an inflated sense of self importance and he needs cheering crowds to assuage his ego. The prayer was not a personal statement by Melania on behalf of the Trump family but a political signal to his ideological supporters -- just like the fake "Bowling Green Massacre" and supposed "attack" in Sweden.

The context between Roosevelt actions and Trump's rally is totally different.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 04:06PM by anybody.

Exactly.

The Trumps are obviously not religious. It was a political statement under the guise of religion.

Isn't it usually, when invoked by politicians? Pretending it's just her personal choice/religious belief is just willful ignorance.

And I agree with whoever said that using 'God' to justify war and cruelty is disgusting.

That was my issue. Trump is a nominal Christian at best who seldom goes to church. Melania was never bapptized and was raised without religion. It may have been legal but it was definitely hypocritical pandering to his base.

I appreciate you trying to help the 'poor Rs' in helping the nation even down to praying.

However, there comes a point in time the D's have to wake up and turn off the 'main stream media' propaganda, and recognize the 'facts'!

The Rs have been gaining popularity, from voting Americans, over the last 8 years. Over a thousand key positions have switched from D to R. Thus we have a R President and Congress majority.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/27/democrats-lost-over-1000-seats-under-obama.html

Maybe, some of your 'political wisdom' should be provided to the D's before the congress becomes even more one sided ----- R's!!!

All the D's need to do is elect a Muslim for the DNC chair and continue to support these 'peaceful protests' (supporting killing babies, killing cops and not deporting even 'criminal aliens/open borders) that do so much damage. These 'peaceful D protests' appear to give voting citizens the inference D's are supporting 'riots', less security in the US, and thug damage. I agree this maybe an incorrect deduction but the 'numbers' over the last 8 years are telling a different story.

I have no problem with Muslim leaders or 'peaceful protests' but I believe the American population is seeing a different picture from the D's no matter what 'main stream media' suggests is really going on.

It's ok Randy. You can laugh at Trump pretending to be religious - it doesn't take the wind out of your republican beliefs. You don't have to swallow the whole burrito and lick your plate clean. :)

You don't have to defend every little whiff. You won't break up into little pieces and drift off into the ether if you admit something your guy says or does is silly.

Let it go, big guy. :)

You just don't understand. Evil speaking of the Lard's Annointed will not be tolerated.

Seriously, Mr T is so clueless about religion that he didn't even realize what was inappropriate about the Lord's Prayer in that setting. If it were being hosted or sponsored by some Christian organization, then maybe. At a general rally, a generic prayer would have been ok. The Our Father, not so much. Not to mention humiliating his wife by having her do something so insincere and inappropriate.

So true.

If Trump can have a guy like Franklin Graham jerkin' him off, it shows you how desperate the religious right is ---- I do get a kick out of seeing how shallow their religious and/or conservative feelings are. On so many levels they've embraced a charlatan . . . come to think of it, I guess that's par for the course.

I've been a student of FDR since I was a teenager.

Donald Trump is no FDR...

(and a honk of my horn to the late Lloyd Bensten's ghost for whispering that one in my ear)

Trump and FDR in the same sentence? Interesting you bring that up. Some people on the political right think, or hope, that DJT will be the new Ronald Regan. Considering that the Democrats have lost 1000+ state legislative seats, both houses of Congress, 16 governorship during Obama's administration, and will probably see at least, 2 SCOTUS appointments during DJT's first term. Consider also that the Democrats have to defend 23 Senate seats (+ 2 pseudo-Independents) in 2018, ten of them in states that Trump carried.

I have a hunch that DJT will be worse than the Progressives'worst nightmares:

DJT won't be another RR. He'll be more than that. He'll be for the political right what FDR was to the political left: a "traitor to his class," and a social - political game changer of tectonic proportions.

No more religion and government please I was only joking in my thread I can't take it anymore lets talk about bad movies or something anything else please.

While I understand your sentiments, I want to mention that you do not HAVE to click on or read any thread that you know will be upsetting to you.
If I want to have a great day, I ignore things that I know will pull me down or make me mad. It's really not all that difficult to take charge of my life and it's direction.

Its everywhere right now and I'm bedridden right now so I read everything right now, people have never been this obsessessed about a president its pretty crazy and maybe a little sad.

I'm waiting for you to tell us how George Washington prayed.

"Oh God, please don't tell my dad that I chopped down his cherry tree."

On a personal level, I am much more concerned by the current U.S. president's attempts to deny Muslims entry into the U.S. as refugees than I am about his saying a Christian prayer at what amounted to a post-campaign rally. Banning entry into the U.S. of people because they happen to believe in Allah instead of Jesus Christ is a direct violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

As an analogy (though not a perfect one), it would be like banning people from entering the U.S. because they believed in the power of Joseph Smith. While I am no Mormon and will never be one and while I strongly condemn many of the practices and beliefs of the LDS church and its followers, nevertheless I strongly support the right of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to exist and for consenting adults to worship and give money to that institution if they so choose.

Blindguy, I suggest you are comparing apples and oranges. They're both fruit (religious issues), but there are distinct qualitative differences between a US citizen practicing his Mormon religion and a refugee, outside our borders, who wants to come to our country.

If I understand this correctly, Trump's executive order banned refugees from seven nations that, as Chief Executive he has determined* are high-risk for terrorist activity and infiltration into the US. President Obama banned Iraqi refugees for 6 months in 2011. ** A President has the right to do this.

Bear in mind that Judge James Robart's decision (upheld by the 9th Circuit) was a temporary restraining order, and not a definitive decision, based as much on alleged harm to the State of Washington as it was on the Constitutionality of the E.O. Also, note that the 9th Circuit has had more decisions overturned by SCOTUS than any other appeals court.

Last point (major): Trump's E.O. was NOT directed at these countries simply because they are Muslim. Other, more populous, Muslim nations (e.g. Indonesia) with their own terrorist problems, were not included. These 7 countries were specified because Trump, rightly or wrongly, believes they are more likely to be the source of anti-USA terrorist activity, here or abroad.

*You may believe Trump's analysis is incorrect; that is not the issue here.

**Critics of the Trump ban claim that comparing his to Obama's is, again, an apples-and-oranges situation. Fact is, Obama did, with certain differences.

And he neglected to ban refugees from Egypt and Saudi Arabia where the actual terrorists came from. Could the fact that the has business ties with those countries possbly be a factor? He has also neglected to prove the refugees are a threat.

Religion used to be an annoyance. Now it's become a weapon. I suppose it always has been but it just seems to be more in my face now. I'm done with it.