I know some of you on here have gone through this. I'm so confused. My husband and I have a long sordid history. In our teens, we had an elaborate sex life. We broke up and got married 20 years later.
When we got back together as adults, we would see each other abut once a week and the sex was great. Literally, the day we got married, it pretty much stopped. Maybe once or twice a month now and its all me.
I've been feeling like I must've done something wrong. I've caught him in at least one emotional affair.
I've always suspected that maybe he's gay. Recently, I read several articles on how to tell, and several of the indicators are present. I know if I ask him, he'll never tell me the truth.
How do I know? I thought he was the love of my life. We get along fine. Maybe I should be grateful for the companionship. This is my 2nd marriage and I feel like a failure.
Maybe it is me. I don't know how to do this.

There are several people here on RfM who have personal experience with gay significant others, and several others who are very knowledgeable.

This is the weekend, and it may take a couple of days before this post is seen by the right people...which may not be until early next week.

Thanks! I'll keep checking back.

I don't have a spouse, or know what makes them happy... whoever they are.

You can't ask them- they may lie? Yea.

Do you think he's seeing someone, gay or straight? You didn't mention any of these "indicators".

Just don't go to mormonsandgays, or is it gaysandmormons? They changed one of them recently. Of course.

This is the place. Good luck.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 03:28AM by moremany.

Watch him, how he acts around other men. There should be clues. Who knows?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 03:31AM by moremany.

I don't really have enough information to tell you one way or the other. If he had an emotional affair with a man, then I would think he is gay.

Gay men can have sex with women. My ex is an example.

The issue with being gay is that it isn't just about the sex. It is about the whole relationship and emotional is a HUGE FACTOR.

I didn't realize how big of a factor it was until I got back together with my very straight old boyfriend from age 20 who is a nonmormon. There are things about being in a straight/straight vs gay/straight relationship that I can't really put my finger on, but they are there. And it is the same with someone who is gay being in a gay/gay relationship. Maybe gemini or someone else can explain it better.

I would, though, be very suspicious that he is gay if his emotional affair was with a man.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 08:28AM by cl2.

His emotional affair was with a woman he had dated for 10 years but never slept with because, as he told me, he wasn't attracted to her, just dated her because everyone pressured him into it.
He was in his 40's when we got married, never married before, no children. He told me I was the love of his life and he never wanted anyone but me, even after 20 years, I foolishly believed him. He told me he hadn't slept with anyone since me (20 years before). He's a believing Mormon. He told me that he would "snap" his weiner when he got an erection so that he wouldn't masturbate. The emotional affair started just one week into our marriage. I was completely devastated.
I had been looking forward to our wedding night so much. We had an amazing sex life up to our wedding night, then it just stopped. I bought a pretty negligee. When I came out, he was turned on his side, asleep. It's been that way pretty much ever since. We go weeks without intimacy. I've asked him to fix it because I can't live like this. We took him to the doctor and his testosterone levels are normal. When he sees me naked, he'll make a joke or twist my nipple or something, but I don't think he's attracted to me. When we do have sex, the only way he can climax is if he is behind me. There are many times he can't even finish.
He never gets jealous. Ever. I think I could cheat on him and he wouldn't care. I'm not ugly and I've had men hit on me; when I tell him about it, he doesn't seem to believe me or even care.
It feels like he has two separate lives: his life with me and my kids and his life with his friends and family. I've expressed to him many times how I don't feel like I'm included in his other life. I've never been invited to his mother's house. Despite throwing lots of parties and inviting nieces and nephews for outings, my children and myself have only been invited to big holiday events. They never talk to us or make an attempt to include us.
He has one specific male friend of 20+ years, who is also married with lots of kids. They only talk on the phone when I'm not around. It makes me feel like he thinks I'm controlling or something. He told me he likes to talk on the phone driving to/from work and at work.
I know he lies to me frequently, because I catch him doing it all the time. It is confusing to me because he seems like such a good person, how can he do all of this?
He's very anti-gay. When the subject comes up, he becomes visibly disturbed and says it is a choice and he doesn't want it thrown in his face.
His favorite music is Erasure, Casey Stratton, Depeche Mode.
My health has declined and I've put on some weight because this has been so stressful for me. I constantly question myself and I feel like I must be disgusting and I must do everything wrong.
We get along fine n a daily basis. We hardly ever argue, we laugh, we communicate on a limited basis: work and home subjects, nothing deep or meaningful.
There are more signs, but that is what comes to mind at the moment.

I'm going to give you a "Dear Abby" type of response. You both might benefit from couples counseling. If he won't go with you, go by yourself.

Ultimately you will have to ask yourself, is this how I want to spend the rest of my life?

I've heard of other cases of marriage changing a couple's sex life for the worse, so you are definitely not alone in that regard.

I personally would find your husband's lying, the excessive need for privacy, the emotional affair (especially the timing of it, right after your wedding,) the lack of sex, and the lack of inclusion in his family life to be very worrisome. Perhaps any one of those might not be a deal-breaker, but taken together, they form a pattern. This is the type of man that I would worry about having a full-blown affair sooner or later. In order to fully enjoy himself, he may need novelty or illicitness.

anon 4 this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------



> He's very anti-gay. When the subject comes up, he
> becomes visibly disturbed and says it is a choice
> and he doesn't want it thrown in his face.

Well, that is a bit suspicious.
The archetype of a homophobe is a self-oppressing homosexual, you see.
Lots of straight men don't understand how another guy can be gay, but they don't take the topic so... personal.

"He has one specific male friend of 20+ years, who is also married with lots of kids. They only talk on the phone when I'm not around."

If you suspect he's gay - maybe this is his real relationship. A close friend of mine found out her husband was gay after 23 years of marriage. It turned out that he'd been having an affair with his best friend the entire time.

Whatever is going on, this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship to me. It seems like he's being passive-aggressive toward you - nipple twisting, inadequate sex, ignoring you, lying, not including you in his family activities, etc.

This sounds depressingly familiar. I am SO grateful now that we never married. I am with someone now who makes me feel like a goddess instead of wondering what was wrong with me.

Did he just have sex with you to get you into a marriage? Felt like he had to do it to fulfill what he is taught he had to do. It sounds like he had a box to check off. It sounds to me like he tricked you into getting married.

I do find it interesting that he likes to be behind you when having sex. Have you seen the movie Brokeback Mountain?

Him not including you in family things doesn't sound like something to do with being gay. It sounds to me like he has other issues that have nothing to do with being gay.

He could be, but then again it could be many other things.

I changed what I was saying here a lot, so it may sound repetitive.

I forgot about the seeing you naked part. Now that could be an indication. BUT I do know some marriages where the man really just has no sex drive at all. Many women who have been married to gays say that they remember the "ick face" when their husbands would see them naked. I saw it. They don't like french kissing females. It was pretty unanimous on that when I asked ex-wives of gays that question.

I like a lot of what others are saying. It doesn't matter if he is gay or not, he does treat you with a lack of respect. It will wear you out emotionally and break you. I also thought of my best friend's daughter's marriage. They had a lot of sex before marriage, too, but after marriage, not much at all. He was diagnosed as a narcissist. She finally divorced him. I wouldn't worry so much about a failed marriage.

Myself, I choose never to marry again, although I've been in a relationship for a long time. I chose NOT TO date until this guy came along. My children were raised at the time. If this relationship ends, I'll never be in one again. The man I'm with now I wanted to marry when I was 20, but he wasn't mormon. He came back into my life when I was 47.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2017 10:55AM by cl2.

With the life you describe, why would it matter if he were gay?

His reasons for being emotionally abusive to you are irrelevant. Univited "nipple-twisting," especially when coupled with his lack of sexual interest in you, is sexually abusive.

If you need to hear it from someone else to confirm your suspicions, this man is not in love with you. Whatever his motives for luring you in, he knew low self-esteem when he saw it.

You need to get out, start healing. The longer you stay, the less emotional strength you'll have to leave. Your fear of failure sounds like the only thing stopping you.

You didn't fail. You got sucked in by a con man. Welcome to the club.

Whatever the reason he needed you is unlikely to have changed, so be prepared for a fit of honeymoon-like love-bombing. Never again let him touch you. He is made of lies.

>>Univited "nipple-twisting," especially when coupled with his lack of sexual interest in you, is sexually abusive.

Yes, this. to the OP, I would put an immediate stop to the nipple-twisting, unless for some reason you find it enjoyable.

I have to agree completely with this post. The issue isn't his being gay or not being gay. It's really you try to rationalize why he's not in love with you--making it his fault, not yours.

Fact is, it doesn't have to be anybody's fault. It just is. He needed you for whatever reason he had or still has. I think you already know you're going to leave, it's just a question of when.

Sometimes it is lonlier in a relationship than not but it can be difficult to give that up for the unknown, or the likelihood of being alone, for an indefinite amount of time.

I'd try to discuss the topic.

He may be gay. Maybe not. This is more often a female problem, but men have it, too. Read about Borderline Personality Disorder.

Damn, I feel your pain. Bait and switch. Be well. Resist the temptation of blaming you. If it is BPD, all you can do is leave. There is no hope for those people because their narcissism will never allow room for self-examination.

If he's gay? Same kind of choice...

Huh? How would BPD make him seem gay or not want sex? lol

Also, that's incorrect about BPD--highly treatable, a ton of research suggests most people with BPD actually do recover, and not narcissistic. I think maybe you're thinking of NPD. Most people with BPD are sexually or physically abused as children. Wrote my dissertation on it. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2017 04:40PM by Loyalexmo.

Thank you for correcting him. With the strong genetic inheritance of this disorder how does that figure in? I was not abused nor where a number of people I know who have it. With the sadly high rate of people who experience abuse, you still found it higher than the general population. I think it would def. exacerbate it, but I find it to be a very inborn thing.

"There is no hope for those people..." Well, that is inaccurate and rude. You just said there is no hope for me and people should just leave if they were in a relationship with me. I have Bipolar 2 Depression. I am on medication and do very well. I have a solid long-time marriage, a good job, and many friendships. Guess what, unless it is someone close to me, no one has any idea I even have BP 2. My family and close friends see almost no symptoms. Yeah, when someone is not medicated, refuses to stay on meds, or has a severe case (esp. bipolar 1) it can be bad. But, that is not the vast majority of "us." What she describes are not the hallmarks of BPD anyway, but I wanted to address what you said.

I was also the "love of his life". The problem? It was a "best friend" kind of love. I just didn't know it until 20+ years into our marriage. He knew he was attracted to men but had stuffed it down because he wanted the LDS picture of eternal marriage, children, standing in the community, the whole thing. Finally, everything exploded when he was in his mid 40's.

The lack of eagerness on his part when it comes to sex is a red flag. But, it sounds like he has other personality traits that are hurtful to you.

Whether he is gay or not, you deserve to be happy. There is life after divorce and you can find a partner who really is "into you" He clearly is not.

I am sorry you are going through this. It is so painful. I know.

My nevermo wife and I had a troubled, unfulfilling sex life. Once she asked me if I was gay. Nope. I've had the hots for women ever since I was a kid. We eventually divorced over other matters. A little over a year later she came to the realization she was gay.

Meanwhile, I noticed that before and after my marriage a lot of the women I had been drawn to, attracted to, felt a connection to, wanted to have sex with, turned out to be lesbians. It wasn't that they told me they were gay to get rid of me. It was usually something I discovered, or a mutual friend would ask, "Why are you trying to get something going with her? 'Cause she's gay, you know. That other woman you see her with isn't just her best friend." I guess there's something about some gay women that flips a switch in me.

So it's a complicated world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 11:23AM by Stray Mutt.

If legal in your state/country, I'd tape his phone calls with his male friend that you say only happen when you're not around. That would probably be very enlightening.

It feels like it's not that simple. It never has been with him. There are so many things I do like about him. In many ways, staying with him is much more appealing than being alone. He helps around the house and with the kids. He's a good cook. He makes me laugh. Maybe I just stay with him for the companionship and find romantic love on the side? Maybe I just forget about having romantic love. I would feel even more shame over the failure of a 2nd marriage than just to suppress the need to be romantically loved. I never want to get married again. I'm an idiot when it comes to this stuff. Just a complete f*cking idiot.

I just want to suggest something here. Another poster used the adjective, "self-oppressing." When you say you'd feel less shame over giving up the idea of being happily married then you'd feel publicly acknowledging a second failed marriage, I would consider "self-oppression." Like, why would you settle for a life-time of disappointment just to please imaginary people in your head who would criticize you for a second divorce? Who are these imaginary people and why are you taking their side against yourself?

It's great that our society is so filled with empathetic people who are so well-socialized that they're loathe to give offense--and they'll sacrifice themselves to avoid offending people whom they assume (maybe rightly) would object to some action of theirs. These over-socialized people don't even have to act--the potentially offended person never even has to go through the trouble of being or expressing offense. The over-socialized person shames themselves and self-censors. The presence of so many of these people does reduce conflict in society. But it creates a society of bullies on the one hand, and the clinically depressed on the other. One raised eyebrow or stern look--or even the potential of it--causes the over-socialized person to put their head down, give up their dreams, and suffer for the rest of their life.

Don't do it. Learn how to fight. Believe in yourself and fight self-doubt.

"How do I know? I thought he was the love of my life. We get along fine. Maybe I should be grateful for the companionship. This is my 2nd marriage and I feel like a failure.
Maybe it is me. I don't know how to do this."

I can understand why you might feel like you've "failed" if your second marriage ends, but please put your and your children's well-being over concerns that you might seem like a "failure."

My best friend since high school stayed in a bad second marriage for YEARS longer than she should have, and it was mainly due to her shame that she would be perceived as a failure for having not one but two failed marriages. (She is a neverMo, raised in an very strict Protestant denomination, and her own father would barely acknowledge her for years after she divorced her first husband, even though her husband had physically abused her and also used illegal drugs and drank to excess.)

Long story short is that my friend, for various reasons, finally saw the light regarding the serious problems in her second marriage (all of which her husband refused to get counseling for--she had to see a therapist on her own). A year or so after they split, my friend reconnected with a friend from elementary school who contacted her online; he said he had always had a crush on her. They started dating and were married within two years. It's a little over five years that they've been married now, and I have never seen my friend happier, less stressed, and more fulfilled. (NOT that I believe we can find fulfillment solely through another person, but I believe she is happy and fulfilled mainly because she finally stopped allowing her choices to be dictated by guilt and shame.) They are perfect for each other. My friend's relationship with her father is also better than it has been in years; both of her parents love her husband, even though he is not at all religious and they are still very involved in their church. I guess they finally realized it was better to have their daughter be happy. (Her first two husbands, incidentally, were both members of the church she was raised in.)

None of this would have happened had she stayed in her lousy second marriage just so that she wouldn't feel like a failure. Please, please remember you have only one life to live! Gay or not, your husband is being terribly emotionally abusive to you. "Maybe I should be grateful for the companionship." I'm sorry, but what companionship? You can feel far lonelier in a bad relationship than when you are actually alone.

I don't have a clue how to tell if somebody is gay or not. I don't think my wife is gay but her girlfriend sure is.

Seriously, though, it could be several things and being gay could be one of the possibilities.

It could be a physical problem, such as low testosterone. He might want to get a checkup.

Perhaps the thrill of new sex has just worn off.

He could prefer porn.

Their could be other problems in the relationship and this is just a sympton.

Who knows? If he's not willing to have an honest discussion with you, you'll just be guessing.

I think the more important question to you is: What are the pros and cons of your relationship? Is this a deal-breaker. Is this worth putting up with because everything else is so great?

I'd suggest counseling for both of you, but if he won't go, I'd go by yourself to help figure out what your priorities are, and what's healthy for you.

Disclaimer: I'm not a psychiatrist or a doctor, I'm just some guy on the internet who's read a few paragraphs about what you're going through.

That being said, here are my thoughts...

There is no way to tell if someone is gay unless they tell you. That is the only way. There are straight guys who will break all the rules, can be very effeminate and check off every flamboyant box out there and be completely straight. Just like there are gay people that you would never even guess that they are gay. While sexual preference sometimes does coincide with some personality traits, that's not always the case. You just don't know unless they tell you (note, telling you might include catching them watching gay porn or catching them having sex with a man, that would fall in the category of "telling" you). Anyone telling you that you can determine his sexuality based on the music he listens too or that he likes to cook, is under informed.

That being said, there could be other reasons for his lack of sexual interest (note, I'm not saying you're the problem, it sounds like something is going on with him). He may just not be interested in sex. It happens, even for men. Don't underestimate the power that living under the sexual control of the church has. The church plays with the men's heads when it comes to sex, it sounds like he's tried very hard to repress his sexual interest while he wasn't married, going so far as to trying to not even never have an erection. That can really repress sexual drive if it goes on. He may have mental blocks that he is unable to overcome, or maybe doesn't want to overcome to get his sexual drive back in order.

I do agree that going to see a marriage counselor is a good idea. If he won't go, you should go yourself.

To me, it sounds like there are more problems in your relationship that the lack of sexual intimacy (which is a problem, especially since it is something that you would like from this relationship, relationships can work without sex, if both partners get the intimacy they need from each other in other ways). There is a lack of trust. You feel that he's not being honest with you. That is a huge problem. Based on these couple of paragraphs here, it sounds like you don't have an emotional connection, you are two people living together, that doesn't sound like a good marriage. Counseling might help you decide what you want from the relationship, if the relationship is actually giving it to you and help you decide what to do.

Just my thoughts.

Maybe dont ask him if he is gay, but ask him one day how he feels about gays?

See how he responds, his body language. Listen to him.

Thats my only real advice, just start a dialogue.
Have you told him also about your sexual concerns? Maybe he is going through something else entirely.

There's really no way to tell unless you ask him. There are no 'telltale signs' in reality, except maybe just a 'feeling' but that could be incorrect. Gay people can enjoy sex with the opposite sex sometimes, just as hetero people can enjoy sex with the same sex, so that's not necessarily an indicator. And any 'indications' you could see about your relationship could be a number of other things--not feeling close to you, depression, personal issues, not wanting to be married, health issues, hormonal issues, whatever.

"He just not that into you" as they say. When that is the case, it doesn't matter why. Cut your losses. You can make a great life--single or married--if you want to.

You haven't failed. You gave it your best shot but it takes two to tango. He failed. Run.

If you are honest. If you don't conceal. If you are truly authentic. If you accept the same in him. Then just be candid with him. Go away together for a few days. Talk. Just talk without fear, because that is important between spouses. Trust. Respect. Love. Truth. If a person cannot have that with a spouse, then who?

And after a few days, if it's good, then build. After a few day if it's not so much, then help each other part with integrity. Life is so short. It ought to include the most peace and joy possible - IMHO

The older I get the more I'm convinced that we humans make relationship issues way too complicated. Bottom line for you = you are married to a man who is, for whatever reason, masquerading as a husband. I'm sorry, but from what you told us, it is likely he is never going to be willing or able to change. Bottom line - you either move on with your life without him in it or continue live in disappointed.

Your complaints sound a lot like my wife's. I wouldn't admit that I was gay - attracted to other men and couldn't come to terms with it outside some deep recess of my mind where I knew it was true. After being married for a while, our sex life would fluctuate from her complaining about the lack of sex and I would suddenly make a supreme effort which would taper off until she would complain again. She was almost always the initiator.

Once I began coming to terms with my orientation and I finally told her, she was in part relieved because she always thought it was her. Now she knew otherwise.

In the end, it doesn't matter if your husband is gay or if he isn't attentive to your needs for another reason. He is not engaged in your relationship to meet your needs and desires. It may sound odd, but you might try going to therapy for yourself. It isn't that I'm blaming you the victim of his lack of attention, and you may want to talk with the therapist about reasons why you haven't successfully found ways to meet your needs either with your husband or without him. Depending on the therapist and your willingness, you may find answers you didn't expect. There is no reason for you to be stuck in a relationship you are unhappy with.

If he looks at gay porn that should let you know.

I would notice the things he would say that most men would not say aloud.

He would ask me how his butt looked in certain pants or shorts. I thought that was a strange thing to ask me but he’s also quite self-absorbed. Often he would dye his hair blonde on the top and leave it darker on the bottom and once he permed the longer top portion of his hair. There was a musician he admired and people would tell him that he looked like the musician and he loved that. He would spend an hour moussing and putting gel in his hair and an excessive amount of time choosing something to wear then preen at the mirror.

I would see him looking at young, attractive men especially if we were in a restaurant…not saying a word but his attention was fixated on them.

He felt that most women were sloppy, lazy, dirty and unkempt – one of the strangest things he would say to me is that he knew a woman had a dirty vagina if her shoes were scuffed or had on older pair of sneakers. On the other side of that if a woman was well-dressed with nicely done hair and make-up she was a snobby bitch.

Just like your situation when we were dating we had a decent sex life but the minute we were married it turned to nothing. Maybe four times in 7 years and what I absolutely hated is that he never wanted to look me in the face, I had to have my back to him.

We had a pool and I found a strange pair of trunks, t-shirt and underwear in the laundry room one morning. When I asked him who they belonged to he told me the truth to whom they belonged and when I asked him how did the guy get home if his clothing was in our laundry and it was not wet? Never answered my question.

The passenger side of the car seatbelt had been adjusted to the smallest size and the seat set all the way back. When I would ask him why the change he told me that he had given a ride to the neighbor’s son (we would occasionally take the boy to school) but I mentioned the seat had never been pushed back like that before and he just shrugged.

Then one day his very tall, very skinny friend went with us someplace and I noticed he adjusted the seat belt and put the seat all the way back and I knew it had been him in the front seat all along.

When he lied he tried to be subtle but would add details that were unimportant. When he told the truth it was straightforward without embellishment.

Toward the end of the marriage I found gay porn videos and magazines and he tried to deny it even then :-/