In reading the thread about mourning an ex, I wondered if I will mourn my parents. They are both 80, TBM to the extreme, and disconnected from much of their posterity. The polygamists my sister married and created are the closest of our family to my parents.

I wonder if I will mourn either of them. I was too far down on the birth order to matter much. I gave them hell as a teen and totally wrote them off after years of their not acknowledging my wife and children.

I wonder if I will feel sad when they pass? If I die before my mother I doubt it. All my life she has had personal revelation that I would die young and she told me about it often. I now have an adult child and she has crested old age. I know it sounds awful to all you all but when she dies that horrible series of revelations she "got" will die with her.

And I never really had a relationship with my father. He has always preferred other of my siblings. It has always been awkward with him because though living together for a couple of decades I never formed a meaningful relationship with him.

Has anyone had their temple endowed and sealed to send to Kolob parents pass and felt bad or sad even though those parents were distant in their dealings with them and disconnected in their disbelief?

Literally, if I call my parents they will harangue and harass me to go to church, not give a fig or even ask how I'm doing let alone my wife and kids (which has literally never happened since they have never spoken to them even with them in the same room.)

They only ask two questions about me when I call - am I employed and am I going to church.

I believe that you will mourn, yes.

I feel like I will mourn lost opportunity. It is like my mind tells me there is hope (like my siblings are trying to convince themselves) but I know there isn't. If they didn't have their polygamist daughter and her family feeding their egos they might have to face the realities that they have estranges much of their family.

The funny thing is how much fantasy is in my family. I know that I will be chided and harassed for not being Mormon and they will never accept my wife and children, but, but, but...

Round and round I go.

I hope the hopes will die with them so I don't mourn the missed opportunities.

I'm so sorry, Elder Berry. That "revelation" thing is just--crazy! Who would do that to a child?

My TBM mother used to call me a nothing, a failure, a slop (if my room was messy). She claimed to know it all, including my future. She would grit her teeth, shake her head, and get that glint in her eye, and say, "No man will ever love you, if you don't.... Fill in the blanks. If I don't look perfect, if I don't obey, if I don't go to church, if I don't get good grades. I guess it got results, but I had very little confidence or self-esteem. I left home the day after high school graduation.

Still, my mother was beautiful, intelligent, and glamorous, and she had a good sense of humor and a friendly personality. She could be fun. She gave me almost anything I wanted. I was sad when she died. I still miss her, years later. I remember only the good times. The difference is, that my parents were kind to my children.

My TBM in-laws rejected our children, when we left the cult. When the in-laws died, I was sorry for the family, but I did not mourn. I was upset for my children, because my FIL committed suicide. My MIL wanted the children at the funeral, to sing "I am a child of god," with the collection of grandchildren. My children weren't Mormon and didn't know the words. My MIL did not want me at the funeral, because it would upset my ex-husband's new wife, so the children faced all of that Mormon stuff alone. It was a bad experience for them. I did feel sorry for the circumstances that drove my FIL to suicide, but at the same time, I was grateful we lived far away from that messed-up family. When my MIL died, I didn't go to that funeral, either, and felt nothing. To manipulate others, she was always grabbing her heart and threatening to die--so many times, that we just got used to it, I guess.

I don't even know if my parents are even aware of the damage they caused me psychologically at a young age or even know my favorite color they are dead in the religion in my eyes.

I had one parent who was salt of the earth in spite of being Mormon. The other was what Robert Kirby described as a "nazi Mormon ". I was sad when the first one died. Relieved when the second one did. I always thought the only way I was going to win the argument about Mormonism with that parent was to simply outlive said parent.

And that was precisely how it played out.

And which one are you in the birth order?

My ex mourned his parents while they were alive and mourned them as they died. I don't know how he feels now. It has been a long time since his father died (well over 10 years) and his mother died about 7 years ago.

He was very concerned I wouldn't get the kids to the funerals as he went up to Rexburg early and I was planning on taking the children up. He had a rough time. But in talking to his sisters, they and he mourn more what they lost by having parents who were so selfish that they just didn't put any effort into raising their children. They raised themselves. Older sisters raised my ex.

His parents didn't know if we had boys or girls, didn't know how many children we had. They got one birthday card (one for both of them as they are twins--if I haven't said that enough) with $2 in it. They seemed to forget we had twins--the only twins in either line of their family. I decided then and there I wasn't putting anymore effort into his parents. I have tapes of my ex's that he used to make journals where he talks about how much he wanted "normal" parents back in the years after high school.

"I" and the kids are his family. But, yes, he did mourn for what might have been. I'll have to ask him what he feels about it now.

My parents weren't perfect, but they cared about all their children and grandchildren. They never once placed on us conditional love on whether we were active mormon or not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 03:16PM by cl2.

cl2 Wrote:
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> And which one are you in the birth order?

6th of 10



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 03:28PM by Elder Berry.

My daughter's ex-fiance was #16 of 16. He and his sister who is #15 really have some issues as they were just an afterthought.

I did a lot of the raising of my youngest brother, who is #6. He even says he still feels he has a mother as I'm still alive. I'm very close to him. But even with 6, my parents couldn't keep up.

True. My polygamist sister was like a mother to me.

Talk about irony.

It takes real saints of people to make Mormonism fly because it is shit that has been packaged nicely.

We watched "The Help" on Saturday and it made me cry. Cry laughing at the part about the pie. That is Mormonism - a pie like that made sweet by people who think eating it is delicious and desirous to taste.

I never held anything against my parents because they were TBM. They were just doing what they believed much like I did with my kids before discovering the truth. My beef with my parents was due to them being shitty individuals (outside of being TBM's) for most of my life.

I ended up severing my ties to both of my parents (due to THEIR actions) for about the last four years of their lives. No contact, no communication, nothing. I was fine with it then and I am fine with it now. No regrets.

If it turns out there is an afterlife and there is a re-uniting with family members, they would be wise to stay clear of me. If not they will be greeted by my middle finger and a very loud "Fuck you".

I been thinking about this same thing, Elder Berry.

My parents are getting old. They still revolve their lives and full retirements around the church. They don't know their own grandkids, even confessing to that one.

They have nothing to do with us, mostly. They were incredibly shitty parents (abusive and negligent) and equally shitty as grandparents.

I don't miss them now, as they are living. I do regret that they couldn't have worked harder to get along and less wrapped up in their bullshit ways of believing and treating their children.

I'm guessing I will hardly mourn them. Best to you.

William Law Wrote:
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> I'm guessing I will hardly mourn them.

Brothers in the same kind of fathers and mothers.

Mormonism definitely feeds their egos along with their believing children.

It is a myth of family I refuse to support. Best to you as well.

I'm in the same situation, and have wondered the same thing. I haven't seen my parents for a few decades. I can't imagine missing what I never really had.

Please don't think I'm flippant here, but I saw a bumper sticker that has stuck with me for years and may benefit some of you.

"Now that I gave up HOPE, I feel better!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 11:56PM by kathleen.

Love it.

That yearning for a protective and loving parent never leaves for us, the children of neglect AND narcissism.

Mormonism promotes them both tacitly. It creates a Celestial family to be a part of so you don't have to work hard on a Terrestrial one. It creates volunteer work for dead people so you don't have to deal with living people.

It's a weird feeling when both parents pass to know that there is no generation above you. There is no "home" to return to. No one to remember the very old days. No one to tell you stories about WWII, the Great Depression, the death of FDR or other historical events as seen from a personal point of view. You are now the senior generation. You are in charge. The younger members of the family now depend on and/or look up to you.

It can be a strange feeling at first. I have always been close to my sibling, but IMO my mom's death brought us even closer.

I don't know how I'll feel yet. I hope to feel relief.

When my wife's abusive deadbeat father died, she cried. "Why are you crying?" I asked, "that man never did one thing for you."

"That's why I'm crying," she said.

wow, very poignant

donbagley Wrote:
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> I don't know how I'll feel yet. I hope to feel
> relief.

I had a shock this first week at a new job. It made me wonder if I would feel differently. There is a VP at my new place who appears to have possibly dementia or early onset Alzheimer's.

He doesn't look to be more than 60 years old. He has a very young looking guy who works with him. I'm thinking this guy does the older man's job. We had a meeting yesterday and the younger man talked down to this older man like a child. I think the VP is this young guy's boss.

I ran into the older man in the hall and he asked me if I was the new tech guy. I told him I was (you are either tech or not there at this small company.) He asked me where I was from and I told him Utah. He stuttered for a long time trying to remember someone's name who he knew in Utah. I feel for the guy. I don't know how he does much more than collect a check.

I wonder if my father is like this? My family tells me he is forgetting things and he is 80. Much older than this man. I wonder if I would have more compassion for him if he is slowly losing his memory. I will not find out. One thing that he won't lose is his religion and he wants to be surrounded like he always has with Mormons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2017 07:27AM by Elder Berry.

I felt sad for all the things that could have been. I needed a father. I got a missionary.

My parents were not TBM's, but they were cruel, abusive, narcissistic. TBM's blamed me for my family's problems. They made me feel like I was just supposed to fix it. I grew up and cut off my parents. When one of them died, I did not mourn or even feel a little sad. The other one reportedly is dying, but I don't care.

It is quite an abusive thing, to tell your kid that you got revelations he is going to die young. Mormon "revelations" aren't worth a fig anyway. When some Mormon nut comes along and says the "Spirit" told them something, I pay no attention at all. In the past those things were always wrong.

brigidbarnes Wrote:
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> In the past those things were always
> wrong.

Not only wrong, false, and all that, they are just their subconscious telling a child something they wish. I think that was my case. I wouldn't be like my brothers. I wouldn't be manipulated by her. I needed to die.

I wish it weren't so, but she actually believes my youngest sister came to her as a pre-mortal spirit ghost and told her to have her. My mother had just at 43 had a Downs Syndrome baby that was stillborn. I think that was a blessing for that child because my parents tried out at least 10 children they wanted to adopt and always returned them. They were mostly special needs. This was after my youngest sister (number 10) was born.

My mother couldn't stop. They eventually liberated two teenagers from a Soul, Korea Tea House and Massage Parlor run by their grandmother after they had been abandoned by their parents. My parents brought them home and my mother proceeded to treat them like shit. I was used to her shit but that kind of vitriol was just awful. My father ended up molesting both of them and Family Services rescued them.

Those are the parents I have and my siblings adore because they have no alternative in their family worshiping religion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2017 07:56AM by Elder Berry.

It was my mother's birthday recently and my little sister shared a photo of her with her arm around my mother in that old dining room. The memories. Oh the memories.

Anyway behind them (strategically placed) is the list of names my mother keeps. It is of her posterity.

Her work and glory is a long list of people who mostly could care less about her.

My ex and his brother sang this ...

"The worms crawl in,
"The worms crawl out,
"The worms play pinochle on you snout!"

... and yucked it up all the way to their absentee father's funeral.

After they got there, they cried like babies and were inconsolable.

kathleen Wrote:
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> After they got there, they cried like babies and
> were inconsolable.

I think seeing them in a casket could do that to me. I would be crying not for what I lost, but what I never had. They represent where I come from literally and what I hoped would be supportive of me. I would be crying for myself and for their deluded lives now lost to me.

I was more estranged from my parents when I was a teenager than I was later as an adult.

They went inactive following their divorce, but remained LDS to the end of their lives. Mom believed it devoutly, she was the convert. Dad picked and choosed what he wanted to retain of his Mormon upbringing, and discarded the rest.

They were both crazy at various times in their lives. We had a dysfunctional childhood/upbringing. Mom was addicted to prescription narcotics. Dad was the closet alcoholic. Between marriages he was a voracious womanizer. I was so thankful when he finally remarried a really nice inactive Mormon lady like himself, who he stayed married to for the rest of their lives (mostly.) He outlived her by a few years, but they were probably the best years of his life, so I was happy for him.

Mom married someone a lot like herself. A very eccentric goon, that they were also "good" for each other in the sense they enabled each others eccentricities. She became isolated from family after her mother died - she'd been a mama's girl herself.

She just faded away. Her personality had died before she did.

I could have stopped loving them, but I didn't. I loved my parents more, not less, with the passing years. I came to accept them as the flawed people they were, and through that acceptance I found more acceptance for my own weaknesses and shortcomings, understanding, and love.

For me it had something to do with the commandment of "honoring our parents." It doesn't say in there we have to respect them, love them, or trust them - because not all parents merit that kind of trust. Honoring was easier for me to establish with mine. And then came acceptance. At some point respect for the people they were. Then understanding, that led to a more loving and tolerant relationship between me and them. I don't regret having that relationship with them. I miss them every day now that they're gone. I forgave them for what they lacked in parenting long ago.

I've wondered this same thing a lot lately. I will be sad when my mother goes. I'll miss her and mostly I'll be sad that she never got to be her own person and spent 60+ years being totally controlled by her very unloving spouse. She defied the odds in the 40s for what happens to a girl who grew up in a small mormon town and never knew anyone who wasn't mormon until she went to college. She went to the big city of Ogden, went to nursing school and joined the Army and went overseas during the Korean War. She had to have had a sense of independence and adventure. But that all went down the tubes when she, as an officer, met and married an enlisted man who always loved to tell people that it didn't matter that she was older than him or that she was an officer, HE held the penishood and that was all that mattered. And she played her part as the submissive mormon wife ever since.

But when my father goes, I have no clue how I'll feel. I just don't see myself feeling anything but sadness for his wasted life. His life was all about Mormonism. There was a time he had a whole hellofalot of money, property, etc. and could have had a very comfortable, easy retirement. But instead he used everything he had to try to buy his way into heaven. Still is doing that. And he's mad about being stuck in a nursing home, in a tiny room with two other people where he can't turn Fox News up loud enough for the whole hospital to hear it. It's all we can do for him since we have to have him on welfare (Medicaid) because he doesn't have a penny of savings to his name. It really is pathetic and he wants to be home where he can't begin to take care of himself. I told him yesterday that he made his choices. He should have been able to be in an assisted living facility that was nicer. But he chose to give all his money to charity. So as sad as it is, he's stuck there. His choice! I think it may only feel like a relief when he goes, since the situation will not get better.

And to my evil TBM female sibling, if you still feel compelled to follow me to know what I'm saying on RFM, I don't give a shit that you don't like that I say my father had a sorry life and I leave out all the great things he did like being in the bishopric and high council and putting all his sons on missions and paying for everyone else's missions and giving money to the church everytime they needed it for building fund and practically paying for the addition to the church and the gazebo, and helping everyone in the church so he could look good when he wouldn't help his own kids, and going on a mission with our Mom, and blah blah blah. Yes. He was a great mormon. He will be hailed at his funeral for all the great things he did for mormonism. But he was, and is, a piss poor excuse of a father and husband. And if you don't like that I say that. Stay off this forum.

**ok, I edited it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2017 10:42AM by NormaRae.

NormaRae Wrote:
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> He was a great mormon. He will be hailed at
> his funeral for all the great things he did for
> mormonism. But he was, and is, a piss poor excuse
> of a father and husband.

Good description of my father. Sexually abused his adopted kids, but a SUPER devoted Mormon.

That is sad about your dad in a nursing home, because of his priorities over the course of his working lifetime.

Sounds like not a whole lot of love has been lost on him.

My parents didn't get to the nursing home. Dad went from a biopsy, and mom two months later, in her sleep. What was strange about that is they'd been divorced for 24 years when they died, and both were remarried. They would've hated being in a nursing home!

Mom was 67 when she died, dad was 82. Both sudden, both unexpected.

Life is stranger than fiction.

My parents were dysfunctional, yes. But at some point I was able to move past that and see their humanity. If not for that, I doubt I'd have been able to salvage my relationships with them as an adult.

Dad's last wife was a great stabilizer for him. Mom's husband, not so much. He was nuttier than my mom. And yet he ended up outliving her as well, by a couple of years.

They were all jack Mormons. They didn't throw their money away on church tithes or offerings. Instead they blew it on cigarettes, booze, and casual living.

Each parent covered their own funeral costs. Mom had pre-paid for hers, and dad had life insurance to cover his. I'm glad they each had the foresight to do that, because they got the funerals and burials they would've wanted.

I know lots of kids who when their parents die, have them cremated, because they can't afford the high costs of a full funeral with burial. Which is completely understandable.

Both my parents wanted burials, next to their respective spouses. So they were able to provide for that, which didn't fall on us children to need to cover that expense.

Yes, my parents have prepaid their funerals and burial also, so at least we don't have that hanging over our heads. They will be buried in a veterans cemetery and be given military honors. BOTH of them. It will really be an honor for my mom to have a flag-draped casket. There were not many women of her generation who do.

But, even though they have that settled, my dad still is trying to tell my mom that instead of being buried in the beautiful Riverside National Cemetery in California near where they live that they had planned on, he wants to be put in the Veterans cemetary in Bluffdale, Utah (that isn't even run by the VA). And why? Because he's figured out he has nothing left to assert his authority over my mother about. He just needs to be the boss of something. Of course, he should go first and he won't have any say in it, and he WILL be buried in the nice cemetary that won't cost us a buttload of extra money to send him somewhere else. Still, it has caused my mother a lot of angst because he keeps bringing it up. We tell her to just ignore him but she feels like she has to defend herself and give him logical reasons why she feels differently. He doesn't understand logic, he understands power and authority.

Yes I did! I loved my Mom/Dad very much/tried to understand their commitment to a vindictive, fraudulent church! Both of my parents came from a different world where life was quite simple compared to today's standards! They, like so many others, didn't have a chance against the well oiled, mormon, propaganda machine/its lock on damaging information! Maybe, just maybe, because I don't believe in useless life birthed in chaos as the basis for my existence, I may get the chance to discuss it with them one day! Who knows, I hope so! Yes, it's true - I do believe in hope!

In the end, my parents refused to embrace technology but fortunately, after a little prodding, GRUNT was a boomer who did embrace a new order of things while many of my high school friends still remain computer illiterate to this day! I just hope they're happy!

I find that living a life consumed by discord, hate, resentment or the like isn't good for me! My discord with the evil church that is a well documented, obvious corporate, pyramid scheme/ heart wrenching fraud is terribly obvious so I do try to keep it all in perspective! And yes, my life would have been very different without the unwanted intrusion of the evil, mormon CULT! Remember, this awful movement has no boundaries/won't respect you - ever! In addition, the so-called mormon church is a well documented user, a criminal entity at large that will take everything in the end - including your dignity! As Always, tnurg (GRUNT)

I wasn't estranged from my TBM parents, we got along very well. My mom was seeing through the Churches BS by the time she died in 2004, dad died 1 year later.

I felt sad when my mom died, cried, wrote songs, etc.

I haven't yet shed a tear for my TBM dad. His turbo involvement with the church caused us to not have a real relationship....he was more like a guy I knew well, but wasn't very attached to. No anger, just no sadness.

Jonny the Smoke Wrote:
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> I haven't yet shed a tear for my TBM dad. His
> turbo involvement with the church caused us to not
> have a real relationship....he was more like a guy
> I knew well, but wasn't very attached to. No
> anger, just no sadness.

Well put. This is what an organization which idolizes patriarchy and priesthood ambitions produces. Men of "God" who are assumed to be good fathers. Many of whom aren't. Many more than in other situations where fatherhood dedicated to a god more than to fathering isn't as admired.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2017 07:16PM by Elder Berry.

I had a HIGHLY abusive parent--as in every kind of possible abuse. I often wonder if I will be sad when they die.

My mother was so abusive and to top it off, she continuously reminded me how she never wanted me, just my older brother. She was nevermo, but so mean. When she died I did cry briefly because things never got better and any hope of winning her love was over.I was happier without her and my life became less complicated. I'm sure our relationship would have been even worse had she been TBM, because,what a load of hypocracy added to the mix.
I always enjoy your posts, Elder Berry. :)

I have a never Mo aunt and uncle who were like surrogate parents to me and grandparents to my children, that I question whether I'll mourn their passing when they go.

It will make me feel sad in a way, but I haven't had any contact with them in more than ten years. My Berkeley educated uncle who is a mechanical engineer reinvented himself into a con artist, and is currently a fugitive felon from the law, living like a millionaire where they live.

He looted the banks where I live, and my children and me were the only ones to identify him from Crimestoppers to police when the SHTF. He was never arrested due to his airtight alibi, and my aunt's position of influence where they live. The same cops who interviewed my uncle after the heist, are the same ones who host a parade for my auntie on her birthday each year, in honor of her contributions to their town.

My uncle turned into a sociopath (or was he always one?) I no longer know. He abused his position of trust with me and my children. They took them on a weeklong vacation through our region six months before he snuck back to our town to commit the bank heists.

He's still living the high life. Cops told us at the time it was only the tip of the iceberg, and that he's been doing "it" for a very long time. It was the first time he was identified perhaps to police. It explains how he has been able to afford exotic vacations, sports cars, his McMansion where they live, etc. And explains his many trips over the decades around the world, where he supposedly was globetrotting to be an expert witness and satellite consultant.

Ah, now I know better. The heist sent shock waves through my home and family. They had adopted my children, since they didn't have any grandchildren of their own. I severed ties with them since they never came clean, and still haven't. They're up to their ears in denial (most con artists and their spouses/children are.) My aunt became alcoholic over the years. It all make more sense to me now as to why.

No words. Wow. Do you have a link to the news stories?

My uncle was never arrested.

The video recording of him in one of the teller windows was only salvaged because that bank recycled its tapes. They didn't even know there'd been a heist until two weeks after he'd cleaned out of my town.

That was the video that was aired on Crimestoppers, President's Day in 2005. That was one month after the bank heists where I live.

My children and I were the only ones in our metro community of close to 2,000,000 who were able to identify him to the police.

The photo ID was not enough by itself to get a criminal conviction, which is one reason he wasn't arrested or prosecuted. Cops like the DA's office are reluctant to bring a case unless they're fairly certain they'll get a conviction.

Uncle left no trace of his having been here. There were no airline records in his name. No hotel or car rental records. Nothing. He had four stolen checking accounts of local Buffalonians (all in upscale neighborhoods,) and only went to branches where they would not be readily identified (also in upper income suburbs.)

He made off with upwards of $40,000 in 3 days worth of going from branch to branch doing split deposit theft.

The last time I spoke to one of the local PD's who were investigating, he was still their only suspect, but he got off. The statute ran after five years. Even the Secret Police were involved in the investigation. The banks told me they didn't care whether he was arrested or not, because their losses were covered by insurance.

My uncle believed he had the "perfect victimless crime." He forgot he made victims out of his niece and my children. And each one of the bank tellers of the eight branches he looted would have lost their jobs over losing thousands of dollars, like they did.

Con artists are sociopaths. My uncle is someone I no longer know or want to have anything to do with. He never denied it to me - nor did my aunt, when confronted. She, being an expert caligrapher, may have even helped him with his forgeries. She definitely helps him spend his money as fast as he made it. They're well into their 70's now. I don't know if he's still doing it. He still advertises his services as an expert witness and for consulting. More recently he was/is a sales consultant for Apple Computers. Does that make you feel any safer knowing this? Doesn't me.

My aunt used to describe herself to me as a "computer widow." I believe my uncle gleaned much of his stolen bank accounts from hacking into people's personal computers. She may have known all along what he's been doing. Or he let her in on his big, dark secret. I really don't know. He's crazy, like a fox.

The cops where I live told me he's been doing it a very long time, and this is only the first time he's been ID'd. They said the money he made here would've been gone within a month where he lives. Sure enough, as soon as he left Buffalo, he took my aunt on an exotic vacation to the Gallapagos Islands. He even had the nerve to buy an expensive camera while he was here committing his heist, and brag about it to his camera club online.

"Another toy to add to [his] collection." All that was turned over to the police for their covert investigation.

I took as many things around the house I could find that my aunt and uncle had given us over the years, and donated them to the Salvation Army. My children were away at college by then. I didn't want anything around me to remind me that their expensive gifts were most likely paid for with stolen money.

Dang. Many people wouldn't have batted an eye and would have preferred to play ignorant.

I don't know how many people's lives he negatively impacted.

What is "The Secret Police?" Sounds positively Gestapo.

There were five upscale police departments involved in the investigation where I live. Uncle only targeted the wealthiest communities (that's where he's most comfortable.) He hit eight branches of the four bank accounts he'd stolen over the course of 3-4 days, multiple times.

Investigations are internal until/unless they make an arrest and seek a conviction.

I work with people who work with the same law enforcement agencies who investigated my uncle (I'm in law enforcement too.)

The people at my agency told me that the reason why uncle wasn't arrested is because the photo ID isn't enough to carry a conviction in court.

It's very depressing to me that this happened at all. It caused a massive fallout with my aunt and uncle, from necessity. I couldn't turn a blind eye. Maybe that's how my aunt has coped all these years, and their daughters.

That and her alcoholism.

My therapist, and my brother who is a family therapist, both told me the same thing: that con artists are the hardest to treat in therapy because they will try to con their therapists. My brother refuses to treat them because they're too emotionally draining for him.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2017 10:31AM by Amyjo.

Amyjo Wrote:
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> That and her alcoholism.

It seems a way to induce willful ignorance.

What a story. Keep us posted on any new developments (if there ever are.)

I'll just add that the last time my children and I were together as a family with my aunt and uncle (six months prior to the bank heist in our hometown,) he had become extremely verbally abusive of everyone in our extended family, including my deceased parents and his other siblings. When he started attacking my siblings, I knew something was radically different since the last time we'd been together in person.

You talk about your abusive parents. That was my uncle, to the max.

I knew something was wrong with him, but I didn't know what. Then, after identifying him on Crimestoppers with my children, and researching the signs of a con artist (verbal abuse is one of them,) it started to make more sense as to what he'd turned into: a pariah.

His daughter wrote a tell-all book several years ago, leaving out that seedy aspect of her dad (she's in denial,) but focusing on his insanity and growing up in the shadow of a power couple in Silicon Valley as she did, 70's and 80's. She got a raw deal of sorts. They had all these expectations on their two daughters they couldn't live up to. Could never measure up. They were a big disappointment to my aunt and uncle. (Sound familiar?)

Maybe I was too. My son was my uncle's "minnie mee." That was another reason I cut off ties to him once I realized he was a sociopath. It was a no-brainer. It wasn't easy, but as a mother I felt obligated to protect my children from him.

I'm still out to lunch as to whether I'll mourn when they pass. I suspect I will. They saved me from homelessness as a teenager. I have a debt of gratitude to them for all their kindnesses to my children and me over the years. But I don't tolerate verbal abuse. And I refuse to harbor or protect a criminal fugitive felon from the law who's a known psychopath. That goes beyond my boundaries.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2017 10:55AM by Amyjo.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His daughter wrote a tell-all book several years
> ago, leaving out that seedy aspect of her dad
> (she's in denial,) but focusing on his insanity
> and growing up in the shadow of a power couple in
> Silicon Valley as she did, 70's and 80's. She got
> a raw deal of sorts. They had all these
> expectations on their two daughters they couldn't
> live up to. Could never measure up. They were a
> big disappointment to my aunt and uncle. (Sound
> familiar?)

Can you tell me the title? You can email it to me if you wish this to not be on the board.

Grief is not a "one size fits all" process.

We grieve because of what we lost, because it brings to light our own vulnerabilities, we can grieve the relationship we WISH we had, and we grieve because death changes things.

I think grieving a perfectly normal process that we go thru to move on. When your day comes, it will be right for YOU.

Treat grief like a temporary guest. It will stay long enough to deliver what you need to grow...then kick it's bum out.
Inviting grief to live with you permanently is what gets us in trouble.

RMM

Recovered Molly Mo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inviting grief to live with you permanently is
> what gets us in trouble.

I think that is despair.

From the other side:

I'm estranged from my adult daughter. Recently I found out through the grapevine that she had given birth to my second grandchild. She didn't bother to tell me herself.

Not sure where I went wrong. I wasn't the best dad but I wasn't the worst, either. I sacrificed a lot when she was younger to ensure that she went to the best schools etc. I've always been supportive of her, was never--never--abusive, etc.

Anyway, that's all in the past. When I die she will likely not find out for some time, given that I've remarried and live in South America now. She doesn't know any of my new family, doesn't seem to care, and has no way of contacting them.

I'm still learning to let it go. I'm getting better at it. I'm truly happy that she seems to have turned out fine, and has a nice life (She is far wealthier than I am, for one thing.) Her husband seems like a good guy and they seem like good parents. I can't ask for more, although I sometimes wish for more.

(LDS had nothing to do with our estrangement, by the way.)

I have a daughter like that GBL.

It's been a real heartbreak for me to deal with.

Mine is a gifted young woman, who suffers from BPD.

Currently living in Jerusalem, and is now dealing with a chronic illness that has left her unemployed and in a precarious way. All the contact I've heard is her asking for money via the Internet from strangers as she describes her situation as dire, and herself an orphan. (Don't know how much she's telling is truth or not, other than a local rabbi where I live has confirmed she sent him documentation of a chronic disability - but not a terminal one as she describes it. She most certainly is not an orphan either.)

She was a beautiful girl, and the sweetest daughter a mom could want in a child. I love her dearly still.

My ex-husband has her personality disorder. We met in our 20's. Didn't know he suffered with it until around the time we split, when I learned his parents were alive and well after he'd been telling us they'd been deceased for years and years (he cut off ties to his family leaving Poland.)

She did the same to me in her 20's he did to his parents in his 20's.

Presently I have no way of reaching out other than sending her Internet messages to a Jewish page she has set up for herself. Don't even know how long that's going to last.

If someone had told me when she was born what the future held in store, I still would have raised her to the best of my ability.

We just never know what the future holds. There are no guarantees with our children. And they don't come with a warranty!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2017 11:34AM by Amyjo.

Sorry to hear your circumstance, Amy. Thanks for replying.

I was 42 when my grandmother died, and the father I never met showed up at her funeral.

then all the skeletons fell of the closet at once.

my mother, a college graduate in the late '50's was knocked up and the man refused to marry her.

in 99 of 100 of the cases in the Deep South, the girl (usually much younger) would have accepted the facts that she couldn't afford to raise her child alone and given it up for adoption.

that's why they had foundling homes.

but my mother was able to re-invent herself, start a career out of town, "get married" and come back with a new name matching the name on her child's birth certificate.

And I was raised, with the entire family's tacit consent, and the child of parents who got divorced before I was born.

so daddykins decided to introduce himself to me at the ripe old age of 42. I refused.

they lived together for 8 years. I never visited. I never met him.

mother died. I kicked him out of the house. Still never met him or saw him.

He died a couple of years ago. I never saw him or spoke to him or acknowledged him. I only found out six months after he died that he had died. (some telephone scammers trying to locate next of kin.)

I regret nothing.

I didn't have a crazy lds parent. Just a crazy parent.

When she died I felt sad (read: sorry for myself) for about a week.

Then I felt nothing but relief.

Fourteen years later, I still feel nothing but relief.

CateS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fourteen years later, I still feel nothing but
> relief.

That will be nice if I can feel it. My mother is more terrifying to me than the Holy Ghost. She is that one person who is always disappointed in me and trying to make me into something she can call her own.

In my 40s and it ain't ever going to happen. I'm staying away from mommy.