When I answered this challenge with the statement that I have no doubt I could if I had any interest, my elderly challenger registered a priceless shock look on his face.

Prior to this challenge he told me that the BofM was the best book he had ever read (gag) in response to my telling him that I had happily resigned from the MormonCult.

Have you read it all the way through?

Yes, I replied and found it to be a book concocted by conman Joseph Smith.

I'm sure my replies will not make a hill of beans difference to this man who has spent many, many years active in the MormonCult.

But, I sure enjoyed seeing the look of shock on his face when I answered in the affirmitive to writing a BofM.

I'd like to see Joseph Smith try to write something like the entire Harry Potter series.

Smith was 24 when the BOM was published (1830).

Mary Shelley was only 20 when she published "Frankenstein" (1818), a far more famous, interesting and influential book than the BOM.

In 'Frankenstein', if I read one more time how Victor was so ill that he threw himself on a bed in a fit of unwellness I would have strangled the pasty SOB myself. And the ship's captain? He's a wordy bastard, isn't he?

Still, better than the BoM.

I can't imagine many things that I'd rather not do than that.

The creation of that book was a deliberate fraud and a crime (plagiarism). Forgive me if I decline the challenge.

Has anyone here ever buttonholed a TBM as to what in the BoM *actually* makes them think it's so great?

And if they say they it's the good feeling they got after reading it...why!?

Or if they can cite only one story or quote....why!?

Much like masturbation, there are two kinds of Mormons, those who admit they really haven't read the BoM, and liars.

I was one of those fools who wasn't a liar and really did read it. Several times.

Me too. I read it many times, at various points in my life. And I always prayed about it when I finished. I was very slow to learn my lesson.

But, to CnB's point: I'm pretty sure that most people who "know" the BoM is true haven't read most of it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2017 09:28AM by CrispingPin.

It would begin "Once upon a time" and end with "And they all lived happily ever after"

No thanks, I'd rather write a book that's GOOD.

Use a lot of "It came to pass(es)." That's what the BofM is full of anyway.

"Let's see you write a book like the BofM!"

Yes, they do seem to believe that that is their magic bullet to destroy any opposition to the BoM.

My wife no longer tries it with me, but each new batch of missionaries in my wife's ward fires that bullet when they first learn I'm critical of the BoM.

Joseph Smith did not write it when he was a boy. By all accounts he had a quick wit and lively imagination. He lifted significant parts and plotlines of the BoM from The Bible, The Last War, and A View of the Hebrews. He peppered it with elements from the Capt. Kidd tales he enjoyed as a boy. Oh, and I have no doubt that Oliver Cowdery and others were in on the con and added to the content, as well.

Actually, this has been done!

The author of "The Sealed Portion" stated himself that it was very easy to write scripture.

You can visit his website with the same name, or just google it.

It is extremely interesting to read all about "the sealed portion" and how it was created.

It's all a fabrication of course, but its been done!

I had a teachers advisor who tried an object lesson of having us create scriptures to demonstrate this point. When the boys failed it somehow proved the bom to be true. I provided some passable verses that in reading his face fell but then he dismissed as being too close to the Bible. If only my 14 year old self realized how dumb a statement that was!

As a matter of fact I could write a book like the BoM. Aping the Bible would be a piece of cake. You already have the format and the language--I can speak 16th century English, no problem.

And, I could do it without including parts of other books.

I could make up names for people and places that were not copied directly or only a few letters changed from towns on maps around my area and people who I knew or read about.

And, I could write a book without all the filler like "And it came to pass."

And I could write a book that doesn't have two families multiplying into the millions in just a few generations. Unless the Nephites and Lamanites were rabbits the numbers just don't add up.


What I couldn't do would be to write the book while looking at a stone. I would probably translate mine with a glass of wine.

Strangely enough, the very same challenge is made in the Koran, as "proof" that the Koran is inspired, Sura 10:38-39:

"This Koran could not have been forged apart from God; but it is a confirmation of what is before it, and a distinguishing of the Book, wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being. Or do they say, 'Why, he has forged it'? Say: 'Then produce a sura [scripture] like it, and call on whom you can, apart from God, if you speak truly.'"

In the essay collection American Apocrypha edited by Brent Metcalfe and Dan Vogel there is a must-read article by Scott C. Dunn (pp 17-46) called "Automaticity and the Dictation of the Book of Mormon." Dunn thoroughly demolishes this line of argument (that an uneducated Joseph Smith could not have written it without divine guidance) by giving detailed examples of other books, as long, as detailed, as complex as the Book of Mormon, which were produced by authors equally as unskilled and unlearned in the subject matter as Joseph Smith was. It is a phenomenon called by various terms such as channeling or automatic writing.

One of the examples he gives is a book I came across when I first began really to explore Mormon history: Oahspe, which is a scripture-like book published in 1882 by John Newbrough. Newbrough had been visited by an angel and told to prepare himself for an important divine task by living a righteous life for a probationary period. He did so, and then was commanded by the angel to buy a typewriter and paper and to sit down at the typewriter and place his hands on the keys. When he objected that he did not know how to type, the angel said that he did not need to know how to type. The angel then proceeded to type rapidly the text of the book, using Newbrough's fingers. When I examined the book in the university library, I immediately thought, "This is just like the Book of Mormon!" (The Oahspe book is on-line at http://www.sacred-texts.com/oah/index.htm .)

Other examples Dunn discusses are Schucman's Course in Miracles, Edgar Cayce's books, Jane Roberts' "Seth" books, the Urantia books, Levi H. Dowling's writings, and - perhaps the most amazing example - the Patience Worth books, channeled through an uneducated woman named Pearl Curran.

Other examples not mentioned by Dunn, but with close ties to Mormonism, are the "sealed portion" (TWO versions - one by Chris Nemelka and the other by Goker Harim III - both online). Matthew Gill produced the "Book of Jeranek," and remember that James J. Strang produced a translation of the Voree Plates, an ancient record on metal plates discoverd buried in Voree, Wisconsin, written by an ancient prophet Rajah Manchou of Vorito ( http://www.strangite.org/Plates.htm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voree_Plates ) as well as The Book of the Law of the Lord, translated by divine power from the Plates of Laban mentioned in the Book of Mormon ( http://www.strangite.org/Law.htm )

Great stuff, Richard.

From the Oahspe page:

"Oahspe inspired a radically different set of spiritual beliefs, called Faithism which has a small following even today. The Faithists do not consider Oahspe the literal truth; instead they find inspiration in its many ethical and spiritual passages."

Could that be the next step in mormonism -- not considering the BoM 'literal truth,' but claiming to be 'inspired' by its many ethical and spiritual passages, such as cutting off the head of a man to steal his plates? :)

TBM's rarely pay close attention to the simple, often stupid, nature of the book. They rely on testimonies from their leaders like this garbage from Holland:

"For 179 years this book has been examined and attacked, denied and deconstructed, targeted and torn apart like perhaps no other book in modern religious history—perhaps like no other book in any religious history. And still it stands. Failed theories about its origins have been born and parroted and have died—from Ethan Smith to Solomon Spaulding to deranged paranoid to cunning genius. None of these frankly pathetic answers for this book has ever withstood examination because there is no other answer than the one Joseph gave as its young unlearned translator. In this I stand with my own great-grandfather, who said simply enough, “No wicked man could write such a book as this; and no good man would write it, unless it were true and he were commanded of God to do so.”10

I testify that one cannot come to full faith in this latter-day work—and thereby find the fullest measure of peace and comfort in these, our times—until he or she embraces the divinity of the Book of Mormon and the Lord Jesus Christ, of whom it testifies. If anyone is foolish enough or misled enough to reject 531 pages of a heretofore unknown text teeming with literary and Semitic complexity without honestly attempting to account for the origin of those pages—especially without accounting for their powerful witness of Jesus Christ and the profound spiritual impact that witness has had on what is now tens of millions of readers—if that is the case, then such a person, elect or otherwise, has been deceived; and if he or she leaves this Church, it must be done by crawling over or under or around the Book of Mormon to make that exit."

I don't think Holland is a stupid man. I think he knows that it wouldn't take a genius to write the BoM. He knows that the book is NOT "teeming with literary and Semitic complexity". He knows that there's no non-LDS person on the planet that values the BoM for it's literary value. Holland is a charlatan, but TBM's eat up his impassioned, teary-eyed, flappy-jowled testimonies.

I have an 8 year old daughter that likes to write "books". They're really just short stories that are several pages long that she writes out on printer paper and binds together. In terms of literary value, creativity, and character development, I would honestly put my daughter's stories up against the BoM any day.

Not only do I think I could write a better book, I think it would be difficult for any educated person to write a book that's worse than the BoM.

I do believe that there is a considerable amount of evidence that Mr.Joe Jr. did not write the book by himself. He was aided and abetted by several other "holy christian gentlemen" in this endeavor.

I would begin by plagiarizing a scripture from The Book of Mormon.

Mormon 8:32

Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say: Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins.

Take a look at "The First Book of Napoleon". (Written in 1809.) It's an interesting read.

It begins like this:

"And behold it came to pass, in these latter days, that an evil spirit arose on the face of the earth, and greatly troubled the sons of men."

You get the idea.

My encounter with this TBM occurred yesterday at a grocery store. In the beginning I was enjoying conversing with him as we talked about a university we graduated from in common as well as the same high school.

His stories dominated the conversation, and I, being the kind, thoughtful person (yeah, right) I am, just let him talk on and on thinking he was most likely pretty lonely.

But soon, I felt like I was with one of those arrogant elite in the MormonCult where condescension and preaching run amuck.

I bear you my testimony that I as SO GRATEFUL THAT THESE ASSHATS ARE NO LONGER IN MY LIFE.

Charles Dickens

His private education ended when his father was sent to debtors prison when Dickens was only 12. Eventually he did go back to school for a brief time, but he then left to become a clerk in a solicitor’s office. (And his father’s time in jail—and his own subsequent abandonment—followed Dickens through many of his characters.)

Mark Twain

Samuel Clemens also left school at the age of 12, when his father died. He was introduced to the world of writing through his apprenticeship with an older brother, a printer.

H.G. Wells

Wells left school at the tender age of 11 when his professional cricket player father fractured his thigh. This loss of the family’s main source of income forced the children to take on apprenticeships. Wells hated it and, like Dickens, his experiences later inspired his writing.

Jack London

London began a series of odd jobs starting at age ten. By 13 he quit school, kept working, and read voraciously. His first collection of short stories was published at age 24.

Just to name a few of "uneducated" writers.

Who has heard of the claims of Meredith and Kendall Sheets? Plagiarizing from Marco Polo and other travelers doesn't sound so far fetched. But I haven't actually read the book yet. They said they spent 25 years in research.

brigidbarnes Wrote:
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> Who has heard of the claims of Meredith and Kendall Sheets? Plagiarizing from Marco Polo and other travelers doesn't sound so far fetched. But I haven't actually read the book yet. They said they spent 25 years in research.

I reviewed the Sheets book for the Associationn for Mormon Letters.

Don't waste your money or time on it.

My review is here:
http://packham.n4m.org/sheets.htm

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
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Good Job!, presleynfactsrock :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2017 08:45PM by cinda.

I'm aloud to plagiarize from the bible right?

Geez presley for president...you got a real gift there...here take my money

my entire exmormon platform rests on the fact that the book of mormon is the dumbest, most obviously plagiarized and boring ass book ever written. "How could the boy joseph write a book such as this...?" Uh, easily. It sucks and he ripped the whole thing off- mostly from the bible!!! Who believes this stuff?!