Hello, new forum member here.

I've been reading the RfM de-conversion stories and I feel like I'm ready to say something myself, though I don't yet know what it means.

When I was 19, I feel while skiing, breaking my fall with my left hand. When I got up and brushed off the snow, I went to grab my ski poles and discovered that I could not grip with my left hand. It did not hurt, but I could not make a fist.

The next day, my hand had swollen, then by the following day I met with a doctor who confirmed a broken third metatarsal and scheduled me for surgery, to insert a metal plate.

I think about that moment, now. My hand did not hurt, I did not know it was broken, but mainly it just didn't work.

That's similar to how I am feeling now.

This last year our family has undergone our own drama and hurtful actions by church leaders. I was denied a stake temple recommend interview because, according to the stake president, my husband was involved in "an intrigue of priests." Or, in other words, my husband and another male member of our ward were at odds in a legal dispute.

Shortly after I was given the green light for a recommend. Several months later, my husband wrote emails to the bishop and stake president explaining his disappointment about the way they intervened in this conflict. Shortly after the bishop denied him a temple interview due to his attitude in the emails.

About a week after, the bishop reconciled with us, but the stake president made an appointment with my husband for a preliminary disciplinary council regarding the legal conflict and the emails from my husband. By the time the interview rolled around, the SP had softened considerably. Instead of the interview being with the whole presidency, it was just him. He sat and listened to my husband explain the whole conflict for over an hour. He then invited me in to hear my thoughts for a few minutes. Then he apologized to us.

The apology meant a whole lot to me, it went a long way to salving the pain from the last year.

But, now, like I felt when I broke my hand, something is wrong. It's like something broke and I don't know what.

I grew up in the church, but in a scientifically-minded family. My mom taught us biology at home before we learned it at school. Both parents chief focus became that of acquiring a Christlike character, not on obsessing with rules or culture. My dad's major area of study is the Beatitudes and how to shift one's flawed perspective to a more loving, Christlike perspective in times of conflict. I can attest as his daughter that he's diligently tried to let this shape his life and enhance all our family relationships.

When I was quite young, I always processed gospel teachings logically to the extent that my age and understanding allowed. To me, God could be best understood as Love and Truth and Light. The core of the gospel has always been that we are His children, that He loves us and sent His Son for us.

My family has traveled extensively, living in different countries, over the years and most of that time, church has been in a foreign language for me. This means that for nearly a decade, my relationship with church has been mostly social with what is best called highlights of doctrine. I guess you could say that the language barrier has forced us to, or allowed us to, stay focused on the most basic gospel core, at Church.

So now, after the conflict we've had with the other ward member has been significantly resolved, I'm not sure what is yet undone, because that's certainly the case. When I was 18, several experiences of those close to me popped that bubble I enjoyed as a child, that essentially immunized our family from "bad things." By age 19 I had reasoned and developed a strong testimony that God truly judges by the heart, that no outward analysis could truly achieve that divine judgment: in other words, you cannot say that a young man who dies as an inactive is doomed, for example.

Likewise, for the twenty-plus years since, I've persisted in translating the black-and-white oversimplifications of the LDS culture into more nuanced, open-ended concepts. I guess that up until now it's worked for me.

Something about this last while has undone something.

The ward member has hurt us tremendously. He seems to be a pathological liar and is very skilled and charming. I know that, even though my lifelong acknowledgments that church leaders are fallible, it has been frustrating that our church leaders were tricked into believing him over us, even if temporarily. I see his fruits as truly evil fruits, I feel like he was like a wolf in our midst. (He threatened to kill us, intimidated us on several occasions, and eventually assaulted my husband.)

Maybe I also doubt myself, since I agreed that we trust him. For the record, I feel like we've grown and learned tremendously from this hellish experience. I feel that because of this, I will be smarter but also able to have more compassion on others and love more deeply.

But something is undone, and I'm not sure what. I'm hoping that by talking through it, I can understand.

Thanks for reading!

In the end, when I was able to examine it (by reading here), I realized it was the leaders who had taken away hope from my life. I like how you say that something is undone. It took me a long time, toooooo long, to figure out what was wrong, but I did.

Take your time. It took me stepping away from the lds church, going inactive, though I had been extremely devout. Taking a vacation from the lds church was key in my survival and in my healing.

That's very nicely said. I also had an experience with local leaders mis-applying gospel principles and causing harm to my family. In my family's case, it had to due with them extending a calling as YW president to my wife who has bipolar disorder. It triggered a severe episode that led to hospitalization and many months of trying to restore stability. They have no idea the difficulty and harm it caused in our family, especially to our daughter who was in YW when this all happened.

I don't fault the leaders for extending the calling. But the fault I do give is that they did it through pressure. They were "united in revelation" in extending the calling. There was tremendous pressure to say yes, despite my misgivings about the stress it would cause.

Then when things started to unravel, their lack of qualification in dealing with someone who has mental illness was apparent. They provided priesthood blessings and tried to remove the influence of "Satan". They didn't recognize the biological reality of her condition. I'll just say they were totally off-base and did even more unintentional harm before releasing her.

It led me down a path of realizing how wrong they were in this case, and the whole "united in revelation" approach was anything but divinely guided. I lost trust in my local leaders, and that opened the floodgates for questions and concerns that I had repressed for many years to surface.

windyway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But something is undone, and I'm not sure what.
> I'm hoping that by talking through it, I can
> understand.

Your shelf is starting to sag bad. It doesn't feel the same yet it is still upholding/holding up your Mormonism but it doesn't "feel" the same. This is because the center of gravity has shifted.

You can either look for stuff to re-center the gravity of your beliefs and experiences or see what gravity does.

I got tired of trying to make that center stay fixed and since I wasn't vigilant at the time I learned of Joseph Smith and Helen Mar Kimball my shelf collasped.

It felt excruciatingly painful and I needed meds stat. I tried alcohol (again since I had used it as a teen) but that didn't help. Still looking for my meds but I think the pain has receded a lot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2017 09:00AM by Elder Berry.

By attempting to apply Mormonthink, I think that if you openly allow this to trouble you, family members and church leaders will only accuse you of allowing "offense" to derail your belief. That's a common theme in the church, blaming you for things that go wrong with your belief.

But farther down, you know that your faith in the leaders has now been tested and has come up short. It's time to remember that Mormon leaders have no training (and many would refuse it, anyway), trusting their male intuition and "personal revelation" to guide them. What you would find out by hanging around here long enough and reading stories by many others, is that your story is common throughout.

I, too, had a similar experience after a ward member cheated me and a good friend out of money. When I challenged him, he went among the members and tried to injure my reputation. I bitterly protested. The man was an officer in the stake, so I wrote a letter to the bishop and CC'ed the stake president, and demanded that he be stopped and disciplined. I went so far as to suggest they revoke his temple recommend. This caused huge blow-back, and I lost a few ward friends over it, but gained credibility with my friend and others, and with my own self. But they guy was eventually exposed, and I was exonerated.

It permanently flavored how I viewed church leadership, both local and general. I began to see how people get permanently injured--some very seriously--by members and leaders who apply silly and arbitrary judgements and actions that are poorly thought through, and often based on narcissism, or at least on over-confidence in their abilities. And since that time, I have seen bad corruption and perversion among church leaders, particularly in the form of affinity fraud and financial dealings, and tolerance for emotional and sexual abuse committed by males.

I'm only saying that what you feel is a "true" feeling. Something IS broken. But it also can't or won't be fixed. This is a problem that is integral to the church itself. Stay tuned in. There is a lot of this pathological lying and skilled manipulation among LDS church people in general, but the ones who do it best are the ones who rise to the top in leadership. Shiz floats.

I went through something similar to what you are now, when I left in the 90's.

It wasn't the church history that drove me away or put a nail in the coffin for me concerning Mormonism.

It was some of the people who held positions of trust, who violated that trust in the worst possible sense through manipulation, debauchery, and control issues of needing to be right at all costs.

The ones that ruin it for others are the ones who are the most contaminated in their psyche and soul.

I wonder if they see it themselves, or are so deluded they really believe themselves to be gods in embryo who can do no wrong because they "speak" for God (which is a complete farce!)

When the rug was pulled out from under my feet at LDS Inc, I realized those morons did not destroy my faith in my Creator. I still believed. My relationship with God was not because of my being a Mormon, I learned. It was "in spite" of my having been one. I was not abandoned by him. The church will shun and cast out people it deems aren't "good" enough. Whereas God never does! He is there to pick us up when we fall or learn our church is a cult; not let us down.

God delivered me from that evil cult! So I can thank God for that and giving me a learning curve for my life to compare the bad seed with what is good and wholesome.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2017 10:18AM by Amyjo.

In all you went through, did you see any sign whatsoever of the vaunted and supposedly god-driven "discernment" from these leaders? Or did you see plain old human bias, ignorance, and ego?

I'm betting it's all the latter, as your post clearly spells out. That's what's "wrong." You've been taught, and all these men claim, that they have oh-so-magical inspiration and discernment straight from god because of their worthiness and their "priesthood." But, of course, they don't. They're just men being narcissistic asshats, pretending their actions are "inspired."

Yeah, something's wrong. And you saw it.
Keep going.

I'd compare your situation to Dorothy, when the curtain was pulled back and she realized the Great Oz wasn't a wizard, but a weak old man trying to act like more than he was by blowing smoke and pulling levers.

You can't unsee what you've seen: These guys don't have any special discernment or wisdom. They were deceived by someone trying to harm you, and they've abused their power (which they can only maintain when people have NOT seen behind the curtain).

I don't think it will ever be the same.

That was me with seeing the endowment

I'm surprised that no one has yet made a comparison regarding the ward member: "He seems to be a pathological liar and is very skilled and charming."

If you read many posts here on RfM, you will find that that personality type often seems to go far in the LDS church, and it goes all the way back to founder, Joseph Smith.

He was not as portrayed in the noble paintings, illustrations, and church movies.

Reading the CES letter for the first time, along with what I already know, now I can see it. For me, it took personally knowing and being victimised by a pathological liar or narcissist to recognise it in Joseph. But now I do.

The Man in Black posting a while ago relates to this topic. I'll attach the link but want to highlight a paragraph (quoted below).

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1743390,1743495#msg-1743495

When you take the Mormonism red pill€ you don't just get new superpowers and start flying around farting rainbows. When you take the red pillッ in Mormonism you discover you have new superpowers only in the sense that you are able to break out of the cage built to hold your own mind. It's true that you are potentially able to see with greater clarity. It's true that where you once saw love you may see manipulation, where you once saw charity you may see extortion, and where you once saw kindness you may see cruelty. It's true that where you once saw power and authority you will see only men casting shadows on a wall.

What a pathetic excuse for a "religion."

The "leaders" sound like backstabbing junior-varsity cheerleaders gossiping in the cafeteria.

I had a similar experience with family members. Mrs. Puli has a sister who decided to slander her sisters to isolate their father at the end of his life. She started some awful rumors about Mrs. Puli and myself that nearly everyone in the family just accepted at face value. At the time, I was certain that what I should do was to just wait until the spirit which all these LDS people supposedly had witnessed to them that they had been lied to. It never happened. Even today, we have family member who refuse to speak to us or to acknowledge that we are alive.

I became bothered because I began to feel lied to. It bothered me that so many people who were supposed to have discernment of what the truth of all things was but couldn't figure out that we hadn't done any of the things we were accused of. The last straw was something someone had said about another religious group that had someone shoot several people at a youth function. They had said that nothing like that would ever happen at an LDS function because the spirit would tell them not to be there. Well, if that were true then I and Mrs. Puli would have to be all the terrible things that had and were being said about us - some of it we didn't even know. I knew better and not both things could be the Truth.

From this point of knowing something wasn't right - similar to how you describe, I suspect - I began re-investigating and found all sorts of stud they will never teach you in Mormon Sunday School. I struggled with it a lot trying to discern what was true and what was "anti-Mormon". The Paul H. Dunn incident helped make up my mind because what was undoubtedly true is that the LDS Church leadership had attempted to cover up Dunn's deceptions. To my mind, that made them liars every bit as much as they accused Anti-Mormons of being. It was no longer a matter of who was right and who was wrong, but that the Mormon church leaders were liars and deceivers of the people who they told to trust them to tell them the truth. Anti-Mormons may still lie, but so does the church that promises not to lie to us. Dunn provided another important tidbit for leaving: his false accounts prove that we as individuals can be inspired every bit as much by falsehood as by something that was true. All the inspiring stories of Joseph Smith could be as false as any fairytale and still be inspiring creating that sense of aw and wonder.

That was it for me. The Mormon church was not what it represented itself as being and Joseph's Myth was just that - a Myth.

My best to you. I struggled through the discarding of my faith in Mormonism and it wasn't always an easy process. They teach you to be afraid of being without the church; it was a lie. They teach you will be less than after you die; well, who knows really? I would think that any God who really loves and cares about us would want us to use our brains for more than shutting down our thought processes to just believe. That makes no sense. And a God who would punish us for not doing that? Well, it just made no sense to me.

Because once you fully understand HIS level of lies and deception-I mean, really have a crystal clear picture of what he and his cohorts did, it will make the disillusionment of your current situation seem like a picnic.

I would suggest that something is beginning to heal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

You have lost your faith in priesthood revelation. This is the cornerstone of Mormonism. We can only be good sheep if we trust that the shepherd is keeping a lookout for the wolf.

You now know that the wolf is among the priesthood. Many of us had our minds open by member wrongdoing- NOT by the wrongdoing itself but by the coverup or the defense, or the refusal to believe a woman over a man, or the turning away when crimes are committed.

Yes, crimes. Sexual child predation, theft, rape, adultery, and even the willful permitting of children to be exposed to danger - ALL for the saving of the image of the priesthood.

I have seen all of these things reported here and many more.

Your eyes have been open that the LDS cares most about the image of its priesthood holders and everything else is secondary. You can never hear their testimonies again with the same innocence once you know that they will allow crime among them and hide it AND EVEN LIE THEMSELVES "for the Lord."

If you ever go read the stories of the wives of Joseph Smith (see wwww.wivesofjosephsmith.org) you will realize that this modern psycho was just following his leader.

Best

Kathleen

anagrammy has it right.
When you're mormon you think that the PH leaders have your best interests at heart. You can't imagine that they would ever turn against you or your family. Especially in matters that could have a negative effect on someones testimony.

It's a hard day when your eyes are opened and you learn they have only their best interests in mind. God help you if you inadvertently cross them. They will lie, steal, coverup, black-mail, destroy your family, whatever it takes to get you in line.

You've gotten a little taste of what that's like. You have nowhere to turn. If you write a letter to the next person up the chain, it will immediately get sent to the person you have the problem with. This just infuriates them more. You are left having to fend for yourself while trying to stay in good standing with the church. An almost impossible task.

Be grateful if your marriage survived it and your family wasn't drug through the mud. Also know you are now on a list somewhere like a problem child. This issue will come up again and again in the future. They will play it like an old song overtime you go for an interview. Hopefully the players either move away or die off. But now you know that church is very much like any business.

There are politics and you can get caught in them very easily. It can be the smallest thing and the next thing you know you're being called on the carpet. The truth does not matter. It's more likely the truth will only make things worse.

Now you know. You can't unknow it. You have the unenvious task of deciding what your going to do with the information you have. Hopefully you come to conclusions and find ways to have a good life without having people in your life that make it feel broken.

Thanks, I've read each comment at least twice and am letting things percolate.

Regarding the historical issues and mistakes, as a teen I worked within the premise that the problems I heard of were possibly legitimate. Of course I doubted they were, but didn't write off completely that possibility.

I guess that as I got older and learned more about revisionist history, I evolved into a metaphorical Mormon, being more concerned with the truth of gospel concepts and values, giving them the primordial authority, as opposed to truth claims on the history.

So maybe I was already a heretic and didn't realise it!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2017 09:53AM by windyway.

I'm glad the you are thinking all of this over. I just had a comment on your latest post:

"I guess that as I got older and learned more about revisionist history, I evolved into a metaphorical Mormon, being more concerned with the truth of gospel concepts and values, giving them the primordial authority, as opposed to truth claims on the history."

I hope that you will continue to examine those ideas. What I discovered was that even if I try to accept the gospel claims as metaphor, that raised more concerns than it resolved.

The gospel concepts and values may seem fine, if you happen to be one of the "in" crowd. By that I mean, if you are white, male, heterosexual, unthinking, and are happy to be obedient in all things. If you are all of those things, you will find yourself fitting beautifully in Mormonism.

But if even one of those things doesn't match you, particularly "unthinking," your Mormon shelf will get so terribly heavy over the years that holding it up becomes painful and destructive. The problem is that Mormon concepts and values do great harm to people.

They horribly demean everyone who is not a perfect fit for the in-crowd mold.

They cause parents to throw out their children. They cause families to split up over beliefs that have no real validity. They take food out of the mouths of children and send the kids out in the cold in worn-out clothes.

They hold up self-righteousness and arrogance as the highest values, while pretending to love humility. They give great authority to people who are in no way able to exercise it wisely. They put untrained people in the position of not only counseling on every sort of human and social problem, but of also making decisions for others about those problems.

I could go on, but I imagine that you get the idea. I have been like you, holding on to the metaphorical rod in religion, but what I eventually realized was that by doing so, I was letting myself support an organization that was hurting people greatly, and for no rational purpose.

you'll find a lot of my story. There isn't a way for me to express all that happened to me because of what I consider the spiritual abuse from the leaders. I put things on my shelf about history, like reading about Elisa R. Snow in I believe Orson Scott Card's book "Saints." I had experiences when I was young that I now think, "Why did I stay?" I was so devout my parents argued over whose fault it was I left (even though my dad wasn't devout). They never saw that coming.

My "ex" is gay. I knew before I married him. I had lived my life so that I would never have to confess to a mormon leader and here I was talking to mormon leaders about sex all the time. It was very damaging to me. I knew the moment the bishop asked me at age 12 if I masturbated (and I didn't know what it was) that I could never handle talking about sex with leaders. I believe one of the reasons we finally got married is to get the damn leaders our of our lives. It was extremely voyeuristic.

It has been over 30 years since all that happened (including having to get my TR from my cousin, who had no clue about the situation). It was just recently I was at a restaurant with my boyfriend and he made a statement that made me start to sob. I realized at that moment that I had married my ex to survive. Marrying my gay ex was a way to get those voyeurs out of my life. To stop the abuse. I paid a high price for all they did to me.

I still mourn some of what I lost. Most recently, I've been mourning the fact that I didn't have the presence of mind to enjoy the last 10 years of raising my twins before they were adults. We spend a lot of time together, but I lost so much and I'm angry about it lately.

I even wrote to Packer and got the worst letter of my life in return. I burned it. I should have saved it. It would have been shocking to most people. My dad told me if he had a copy, he would have taken out an ad in the Salt Lake Tribune.

Like others have said, once you see "the light," there is no way of turning back. The history had no impact on my leaving. I could have ignored it forever. I'm someone who goes on feelings.

I've read about your story here and it always makes my eyes prickle. Talk about no way forward but out. The hopelessness and shame is almost unbearable when you are a true believer.

To the op: It is possible to recover from this blow by recognizing that your paradigm was incorrect but that you are still a worthwhile person. You will have to develop or select a moral "platform" of your own, basing it on a religion is an option, but not the only one.

Viewing your life in the future as an adventurous exploration is the best. You can consider yourself lucky that you learned the truth relatively early in life rather than when you are 60 or 70 and have squandered your children's childhood and will be retiring in poverty, realizing that your tithing could have provided you a comfortable living in your old age.

Best

Kathleen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2017 04:16PM by anagrammy.

Yes, I understand the feeling. I've been there, too.

Here's my take on it:

"Buying into" the LDS story is an "emotional" thing. It's a deeply personal decision and commitment.

It is NOT a "rational" thing. These are things we do when we decide to buy a house, or figure out next month's budget. We weigh the facts and make a decision. No emotional commitment. Just "rational" thought.

Since the connection we have with the church is based on "emotions", then we cannot be "reasoned" out of it. We didn't buy into the church based on a rational argument. We did so as the result of an emotional experience.

So, only another, stronger "emotional" experience can "break" that connection.

And that's what you experienced here. All of your explanations were working fine - and they always would. But all of a sudden, you get hammered by another, stronger emotional experience - this time negative.

It was strong enough to damage your initial positive emotional connection with the church.

That's why you feel this way. Something is "broken" indeed. It is the connection formed by your first initial emotional ties.

The connection hopefully is irreparable. Believe me, you don't want the church. You're beginning to "feel" why. If you continue to open your eyes and study, you'll "know" why.

Hang in there. From what I can see, you're extremely intelligent. You'll figure it out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2017 02:32PM by mormonrealitycheck.

Yes, I understand the feeling. I've been there, too.

Here's my take on it:

"Buying into" the LDS story is an "emotional" thing. It's a deeply personal decision and commitment.

It is NOT a "rational" thing. These are things we do when we decide to buy a house, or figure out next month's budget. We weigh the facts and make a decision. No emotional commitment. Just "rational" thought.

Since the connection we have with the church is based on "emotions", then we cannot be "reasoned" out of it. We didn't buy into the church based on a rational argument. We did so as the result of an emotional experience.

So, only another, stronger "emotional" experience can "break" that connection.

And that's what you experienced here. All of your explanations were working fine - and they always would. But all of a sudden, you get hammered by another, stronger emotional experience - this time negative.

It was strong enough to damage your initial positive emotional connection with the church.

That's why you feel this way. Something is "broken" indeed. It is the connection formed by your first initial emotional ties.

The connection hopefully is irreparable. Believe me, you don't want the church. You're beginning to feel why. If you continue to open your eyes and study, you'll know why.

Hang in there. From what I can see, you're extremely intelligent. You'll figure it out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2017 02:33PM by mormonrealitycheck.

I had never read the CES letter before now. I just went through about half. Thing is, now that I have experience with the evil of a pathological liar who can seem charming and pleasant, I recognise the claims about Joseph Smith. Before I would have doubted my doubts. Now that I know how evil can look, it's obvious to me the Joseph was a fraud.

I wasn't ready to see it before.

But I've been wondering the past several days how to best transition my kids. My oldest son is an Aspie, super obedient, super sweet,super smart, knows the scriptures more than most adults. He hasn't taken or passed the sacrament for over two years and has never told why. I think it's cuz he's too hard on himself.
How can I disabuse him of Mormonism? But then again how can I not try? Better to try before him or anyone else is older. At least, share my understanding and let them process at their own speed. But I also have my husband to tell....

This won't be easy. And we're pretty isolated here. All our best friends here are LDS. They're not the type to shun us, I think, but it will change things. Anyways, I know I don't have to drop a bomb right away . Today I took a first step and abstained from the Sacrament. I'm a counsellor in YW and the pres is my friend and just had a baby and I don't want to abandon her. And my girls make up half the attendance so I feel obligated to help out. But I know I can't stay in a calling...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2017 09:20AM by windyway.

One of the fascinating things about Mormonism is that it works at all, given what it actually is. That means to me that life can have meaning a million different ways. Not just the Mormon way. Life is such a huge banquet, it would be a shame to only fill up on funeral potatoes and green Jello with grated carrots.

Interestingly enough, now I can rationally "see" Smith, because of the pathological liar I know who has caused us suffering.

This man who hurt us may seem like a nice guy to some people, but he's crossed the line over to truly evil stuff. If one day he claimed revelation for me, I'd reject it completely.

Now I understand that at a certain point, if God exists, the Spirit will no longer speak for God to the whole world through that vessel. I can no longer say that Smith was just a flawed man who was used by God.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2017 02:59AM by windyway.

I really enjoyed your post, thank you for sharing. I think you are picking up on the reality that the mormon church is nothing. There is no power, no "discernment", no revelation- nothing from god coming through this pipeline whatsoever. Charismatic people like the the DB in your ward THRIVE in mormonism.
There are good people like you in the church, who genuinely strive to be good Christians. Unfortunately though, this is not Jesus's church (full disclosure, I am atheist and do not subscribe to Christianity- I don't believe there is a "true" church on the earth).

It is hard to explain sometimes, what shakes us out of our mormon comas. For me, it was when my step brother died. Bless his heart. He had special needs and could not take care of himself. When he was in his 20's his mom and her asshole husband left him alone and moved to Okinawa. He regularly had massive seizures, a few months into him living alone, his sister's husband found him dead in the bathroom. He had been there for 3 days. He had a seizure and had fallen down, smashing his head on the toilet. He died alone and laid there for 3 days. I went to his funeral in Pennsylvania and it crashed my shelf of mormonsism. Everything was "he is in a better place", "thank goodness he went through the temple a few months ago"- then hearing the bishop and stake president drone on about the plan of salvation making it all ok. I kept thinking it was all so disgusting but I couldn't put it into real words or thoughts- I just knew something was wrong.

In the airport on the way home, I picked up Krakauer's amazing "Under the Banner of Heaven". It explained the void I was suddenly experiencing. As you learn about the real history of the mormon church, I believe you will have clarity as to what you are experiencing. It is all wrong. All of it is wrong.

Wow.I also read your other post on this. I'm sorry that your response to me opened a wound but perhaps this means you're ready to "do" something a little more with it. I've no idea what, you decide. But sometimes we think of things when we're ready to let them move us.

I wish you only the best!

I remember how hard it was the first time I was deeply hurt by the MormonCult. I knew I had no recourse.....that it was bigger and stronger and run deeper than me.

Part of me did not want to believe what had occurred because I too had found an emotional attachment and fulfillment in the cult that you also seem to have found.

It is like loosing a friend that meant so very much to you.

Keep on searching.....only you can decide and discern where the truth lies.

And best of luck.

In some ways the Church was a true friend, at least to my family. My dad's family was riddled with alcoholism, divorce, and domestic violence. My mom's family was plagued by repression, also divorce,and molestation. For both my parents, the Church represented a step up from their backgrounds.

Of course the Church hurts people but my parents used the Church and especially the gospel as a tool to sincerely become better people and good parents. I'd say they raised us about as best kids could be raised in the LDS Church. And the siblings who already "failed" at church ideals or left were and are loved and served devotedly by my parents.

So I honestly can say the Church blessed me but I also understand that I still must choose what is best now. I dont owe the church. Can I maintain values without the Church? Yes, I think so. Does the church's influence today outweigh the good of those values independent of it? I don't think so. My kids are curious and good, I don't want them or their children hurt when we can continue our earnest path outside church norms and walls. Perhaps we will have a transition period but I want to help them be free of the harmful messages of the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2017 05:46PM by windyway.

I am a nevermo but I like what Ericka said:


"Now you know. You can't unknow it. You have the unenvious task of deciding what your going to do with the information you have. Hopefully you come to conclusions and find ways to have a good life without having people in your life that make it feel broken."

And, welcome to this board. I believe you will find much information that will be helpful to you. :)

Thank you, Cinda. It's already helped me!

One of my esteemed studio art professors once told me, "Choose your critics." Choose the people to whom you will listen, whose advice you will consider, whose criticism may inform future actions. Choose the people whose opinions you will respect.

That may or may not be a church leader. Mormon leadership is truly a spin of the roulette wheel. Some are kind, wise, and just, some not so much. Complicating the matter is that there is no formal training for bishops and stake presidents. Mormonism brags that its local clergy are unpaid, but this is not necessarily a virtue. Unpaid in this case equals untrained.

Windyway, I am at a loss as to why your local leadership felt the need to insert themselves into what was a private legal dispute. I think that you and your husband would have been fully justified into telling the leadership to mind their own business.

Thank you, summer. I think that it was the other member's persuasion that influenced them. He can seem like a sympathetic character...before things went south with him and us, he told my husband that he'd been charged for hitting a 9yo kid at a rugby match. At the time my husband played the dutiful friend and was dismayed for him.

But now DH gets it and believes the kid. It took getting punched in the face by the guy and then being lied about, kind of an expensive lesson.

But ultimately, this isn't about being offended by leader stupidity and isn't about that man. It's the lesson we learned about the Church in the process. As painful that is, we're glad we learned it.

And I do like your quote about choosing our critics...we have the right to choose who gets in our head, if anyone!