I watched one of Sir David The Bard's Youtube video in which he shares that there is absolutely no privacy in the church. It's all up in your grill, nosiness, life is an open book to all kind of environment. Then there's gossiping that spreads like wildfire. I know the bishop gets nosy in your personal life when he's interviewing converts for baptism and for temple recommends. Can't forget the Visiting Teaching and Home Teachers who visit less active members (and is it just less active and struggling active members?)


Stories anyone?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2017 10:16PM by canary21.

One of the worst parts of mormonism and lack of privacy has to do with everyone watching everyone else and responding in ways that that are completely invasive and inappropriate. It's not that they want to strengthen the church. They are jealous if you're doing anything they want to do but can't do because of their own perceptions of, church rules. So they watch you and judge your life, figuring that either they have the right to interfere with your life, or to do what they perceive you are doing because if you can do it, they should be able to do the same. Then they go out and fuck up their own lives and blame you when you had nothing to do with it. It gives you a sticky gross feeling, like you have to be responsible for what a bunch of irresponsible people do unless you want to be a complete drone yourself, just for living your own life and minding your own business.

I didn't care what other church members did when I was in the church, unless it affected me. And I never pretended to be anyone I wasn't. I had a girlfriend that I was having sex with and a lot of people knew us as a couple. She was pushing pretty hard for marriage and I figured I would eventually end up married to her. I had only known her for a few months when everything blew up. She had also been having sex secretly with several of my friends who I had introduced her to and she ended up pregnant. I wanted to know if I was the father. All of the church leaders involved and the other guys (church members) who were involved with her pointed the finger at me indignantly and said "well, you were having sex with her outside of marriage too". My position was that I believed the relationship to be monogamous, and headed toward marriage, not having sex with some other guy's girlfriend behind his back for the cheap thrills as they had done. That arguement went nowhere as they seemed to believe they were as entitled as I was. They all knew that they had grossley violated my personal boundries and friendships and that didn't matter to anyone. That was considered a personal issue and not anything they needed to apologize for or to be any part of their repentance. It was like being a part of a sex cult where everyone has sex with everyone else and you have no right to set any boundries. I was looking for a wife and simply made a mistake. I later realized that my mistake was picking the wrong woman, not breaking my temple vows. If the situation were reversed and I were any one of those other guys, I never would have had sex with her (sneaking around with a friend's girlfriend behind his back). I felt extremely violated by both the actions of the other guys, and that their church leaders didn't have the wisdom to recognize the differences in these relationships and just went by a church rule without any relevant context. When you feel attached to someone that you loved and that betrayed you so greatly, and that your supposed friends aren't even sorry for what they did, it feels like a church-sanctioned rape against you. I went through a court of law to force blood testing that excluded me as the father. I left the church because I am better than those people and they do not understand nor respect the boundries of others. Neither they nor the church believes that there should be any personal boundries at all or that you have any right to have boundries. It's like if you got a speeding ticket and then they get a speeding ticket on the way to rob a bank and then they blame you for the bank robbery because you were speeding too.

Unlike when I was a church member, I watch church members now. My attitude is that as long as I respect the relationships of others, I can have sex with whoever I want to, and still be an honest and virtuous person. But as church members they have to live up to who they claim to be unless they are hypocrits. No sex outside of marriage for them. The church doesn't teach them to how to properly set nor to respect sexual boundries other than different rules under a married or not-married context which can be completely irrelevant. As long as a person claims to be mormon, I expect them to live their religion. If they're smart, they'll leave the church any way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2017 12:58AM by azsteve.

I think you bring up an interesting point. The people that defiled your relationship with your girlfriend didn't care so much about the relationship as they did with the rule of law as it is presented in the church. There is an attitude that if you abide by the church rules everything will go well for you and if you don't then anything bad that happens is considered to be the natural consequences of your rebellion against God.

I honestly don't think some members realize that there are functioning moral people that choose to be outside of the church either. They have an absolute on morality and morality is just a check list of dos and don'ts.

That and mormonism defines morality as a function of sexuality. The two are inexplicably intertwined and the truth is: your sexuality and your morality are completely different things.

When I was living with my in-laws my MIL had to have surgery. Her VTs brought in dinner while she was still in the hospital. As soon as they handed over the food they immediately started asking what she'd had surgery for. They stepped closer to me as if they were getting some juicy gossip. She's a pretty private person and barely told me why. I had no idea if she wanted these women to know. I told them that they would just have to ask her themselves, but she was ok and the surgery went well. They both seemed pretty disappointed.

That reveals a lot about their character and intentions if that was their reaction. Nosy, too.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2017 05:58PM by canary21.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2017 05:59PM by canary21.

Double post



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2017 10:53AM by midwestanon.

The so called priest/penitent priviledge as it relates to bishops and members does not exist.

I found this out quite painfully when my then DH and I were going through the most devastating experience in our marriage...his coming out as a gay man. He talked to the bishop about it privately. I also talked to the bishop about it privately. He assured us both that it would stay confidential. It was important that it did due to DH's job at BYU. Well, I guess it was too juicy of a topic to keep quiet about. I am not sure who the bishop told first, but it got around. I only endured going to church after that for the sake of my young children.

I had the misfortune of having a married mormon friend that was having an affair with a married guy in the ward. I knew they were 'seeing' each other, but I didn't know any details about how far they'd taken it. I didn't want to know, and I told her not to tell me. I was pretty disgusted with both of them and didn't want to get caught in the middle somehow.

One day the RSP shows up on my doorstep. That was odd because she lived 30 miles away and didn't call first.

She got right to it. She demanded that I tell her everything I knew about my friend and her 'little relationship'. I was shocked that she was demanding I gossip, and I told her so. That just made her angrier. I told her if she wanted to know anything about anyone I knew, she'd have to ask them herself because I wasn't the kind to gossip. I told her I didn't know anything about any 'little relationship', and in the future, would she please call before dropping in. I then escorted her to the door.

I was pretty much blacklisted in the ward after that. I didn't really care. Like i said, I lived 30 miles away and I was the only mormon in my town. It didn't change my life if the people 30 miles away quit talking to me.

There is a guy at my work who did some research and decided the church is not true. He told his wife his feelings and she flipped out.

Her first call was to their bishop. Her second call was to his parents. He is now getting hammered from his wife, his bishop, and his parents. He was released from his calling as executive secretary. I assume he lost his temple recommend too. He is in a tough spot for sharing his concerns. He dislikes going to church but is continuing to attend so as not to rock the boat further.

I would probably be in the same boat if I bluntly shared my feelings. I know (don't believe, but have a sure knowledge) that my in-laws would encourage my wife to divorce me.

I certainly got a couple of people to think and challenge their own beliefs in Institute. Now I wonder how many people at the family ward I visit actually don't believe...

A few thoughts:

1: Members believe they are part of a "family" looking after each other (you know, "trek", food storage, pioneer stories going back to a small group of isolated immigrants 150 years ago) and goodness knows, they're "just trying to help" by culling info.

2: Life is basically dull and boring as you go about your callings, kids, and drudgery, so spice things up a bit with nosiness. Give yourself a little power with culled info.

3: It's a cult--there is no privacy; you belong to the cult. Make yourself look good to the higher-ups with your culled info.

Pick a little talk a little.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvhFs2bdRpE

Years ago I sent a letter to church headquarters with a lot of questions. I asked specifically to not send it back home and cause problems there.

Of course, they sent it back to our stake president, and my wife found out.

Also discovered my wife was discussing me with the bishop and her family.

Recently have read many accounts like this with the guy's porn problem being spread all over.

https://www.mormonwomen.com/interview/when-pornography-hits-home/

"The night he told me about his addiction, I called my mom. We ended up telling his family, and eventually, we knew we’d have to tell close family and friends. However, I prayed hard about who I was going to tell because I needed people who could support us, not judge us and who could handle the burden of knowing."

The most disgusting thing I saw in a Mormon church happened at my son's baptism. Being an EXMO meant someone else's did the dunking--my father in law. After the baptism, I walked into the changing room and saw FIL walked around bare ass naked with his white pubic hair waiting to be covered by his holy underwear.no kid should be forced to see that! It grosses me out to think of it!

Well, don't ever go into the changing room at the Salt Lake Temple then. Nothing but 90 year old men walking around naked for some reason. Perhaps it's a cultural thing, since I did not grow up in an era where we showered after gym class except for when we swam, and thus were wearing trunks, so it seems like me and my peers were never exposed to a lot of public nudity. Sometimes people just assume that changing rooms mean that nudity is acceptable. In fact, I think that is the prevailing opinion. Doesn't make what you saw any less disgusting though.

that example from the Mormon women website is awful, that has been discussed on this website before. From what I remember, this woman goes on to separate from her husband based on her issues with his pornography addiction. And apparently, this man was excommunicated solely on the basis of his pornography use come I wish I had never heard of. My understanding from the C H I was at pornography use was not a reason that someone could be excommunicated for unless they were like a bishop or a stake president. The way she goes on and talks about all the people he's going to need to tell and her support groups in all this Shit was maddening.

Part of the Mormon gossiping culture is the way they make mountains out of mole Hills. It's like that other thread where people are constantly checking to see if people are wearing garments. People don't show up for a few Sundays, people don't take the sacrament, people don't do a, b, or c, they are suddenly the topic of discussion because of people's unfiltered assumptions about them. It was actually something that wasn't a huge problem in the ward I grew up in, although I did hear about it sometimes, but it's mostly from the stories I've read here and the things that I have heard of from my family and other people's Ward that absolutely make me disgusted. I have a family member who had a hard time having children, but eventually had three, and in the decade or so it took her to get pregnant she constantly got comments from people about why she wasn't pregnant why she didn't have kids and when she was going to start a family and it pissed her off. Well, it would have pissed me off even more. I would have started swearing and threatening these people. Fertility issues only seem to be becoming more common, and for Mormon women, I can see how it would become an extremely delicate topic, and they have a bunch of people gossiping about it is about the most insensitive thing I can think of. Especially since people judge Mormon women on how many children they have, and they're worth seems to come from that fact as well.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2017 01:33PM by midwestanon.

There is no such thing as privacy in a cult environment!

The worst is when you're in a position to attend the Sunday morning "priesthood executive committee" meeting--bishop, his counselors, EQ president and counselors (if they show), HP group assistant and assistants (if they show), ward mission leader, male missionary couples (if they show), and executive secretary. Am I leaving anyone out? Anyway, there's the potential to have at least 12-13 people there. And when the meeting opens is when the gossiping begins, hauling out and discussing the problems of this brother, that sister, an adolescent, etc. It's all under the rubric (or maybe "guise") of assisting the person, but you're discussing highly personal things about fellow members, their marital troubles, addictions, you name it. I'm sure that the things that are discussed find their way back to the wives. And who would want to trust a couple of 18-19 year-old boys with that kind of information?

Other examples include when a bishop discussed with me a "foreign student" in the ward who had suffered sexual abuse by her father; there was only one foreign student in the ward, so who could that be? Once, another bishop announced that all the parents of teens needed to stay for a special meeting. He opened the meeting by saying that a certain girl in the ward happily announced to him that she was pregnant. The meeting was ostensibly to warn us all about raising our kids right so they would not get pregnant out of wedlock. But there was only one possibility who the girl could be, and he had just made her confidential information available to all of us.

Since no one in the Mormon church has any kind of professional training mandatory for religious leaders everywhere, Mormon leaders do terribly irresponsible things.

Heavenly Father has put in place a super sophisticated loving heavenly surveillance program that does 24-7 surveillance on all of our thoughts and actions. This is far more sophisticated than anything anyone could dream of NSA doing as this is from our omnipotent loving father in the sky. Thus anything and everything about us is known to God and since the church leaders (from the Brethren down to the deacons' quorum presidency, home teachers, missionary Sr comps & District leaders, Ward Councils) is entitled to know all our business in full detail. There are people who may be concerned that this is an overreach of their boundaries. We call these people sinners and they need to repent or else they could end up in Hell burning forever in a fire of lake and brimstone. How dare they waste a millisecond worrying about things like that when we know that whether its by the voice of his servants (i.e. those high and holy leaders I mentioned above; and any church leaders at any level) it is the same as God.

Now of course those who do have such doubts can repent by spending the rest of their lives on a 24/7 basis completely devoted in their thoughts, feelings, and actions on following their church leaders and accepting that these absurd ideas that their boundaries deserve respect from church leaders is just against the glorious gospel and could put their Celestial reward in jeopardy.

Instead they should dream about that Celestial Reward :) Just imagine what it would be like to be a God forever and plugged-in 24/7 for eternity to an email inbox where you have to answer billions of incoming messages/prayers every second. That's the awesome reward that awaits you :) Well that is the reward the church teaches awaits us unless that itself were to be thrown in doubt. What if someone thought that we really don't know what it means? Or if they thought it was a couplet more than anything real? That would be an absurdly silly idea as it would destroy the #1 marketing idea of Mormonism and then all we'd be left with is a good sales pitch on why its so awesome to be a free janitor-slave for a big controlling corporation. No siree the #1 marketing appeal is becoming a god and getting to answer billions of incoming messages each minute because BULK MAIL is awesome :)

As a young sister missionary, I was always shocked and dismayed when attending ward council meeting in a new area and find the same situation as the last: ward member's personal problems being discussed openly and gleefully with no regard for privacy or dignity. I have never shared a secret or a problem with a mormon since.

One of my last meaningful callings was sunday school president. If you want to call that meaningful.

I sat through a few ward council gossip sessions and finally had enough. While ward council was giving one sister a particularly thorough anal exam, I got up and left.

Bishop said where ya goin? I announced to the group that the sunday school could do nothing to help this sister in this situation. "I want to think the best of people. If anything comes up for sunday school attention, send me an email. I'm not attending this meeting anymore."

Shockingly I was released a few weeks later.

I've got a couple of examples.

My husband was bishop for 5 years. He never told me anything that he learned in confidence. So he was great that way. However, he felt like he had a right to know EVERYONE'S business. Our son's school teacher was divorced less than a year after her marriage. She confided in me the reason, and my husband went crazy that I knew something about this woman that he didn't know. She wasn't LDS, nor did she live in our ward's boundaries. He lost some of my respect with that.

The other thing is just to say my "ditto" about the ward gossip session called correlation committee, or whatever it was called. I hated it and couldn't figure out why I, as a Primary President, should have to listen to other people's private business.

I had a bishop who wanted to protect everyone in the ward from porn. He thought it was very important for him to know how many computers each home in the ward had and where in each home the computers were kept.

The bishop felt it was somehow the R.S's responsibility to get the information he wanted. I had a R.S. calling at the time and the unfortunate task was given to me. I had to contact each visiting teaching partnership to tell them to ask the women they visited how many computers they had and if they were in a public place in the home. I followed up with each partnership, compiled the information and gave it to the bishop.

If the bishop had a concern about a particular home, like someone had a computer in an office where the door could be closed, he passed the information on to a ward computer specialist. The specialist was supposed to contact the ward member to ask if he could "assist" them in making their home safer.

It was all very bizarre and the worst part about it was that I participated in invading the privacy of others. I knew it was wrong and felt uncomfortable about it. I even expressed my concerns to the R.S. president, but she reminded me that the bishop had special authority and that I needed to be obedient. At the time, I felt bad for questioning so I did what I was told.

I totally narc'd on a roommate for being in her room with her boyfriend. I really thought I was doing her a favor. I'm pretty sure her boyfriend was doing her the favor.

Well, there was this. http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1599246,1600015#msg-1600015

I'd be dead without sir David the bard that's my story, still listen to his videos to get me through the rough times.

I love SIR DAVID THE BARD's videos!

When I was fourteen I lived in a small town in eastern Oregon. There was a good sized clot of Mormons in that town, but they weren't well respected by the other citizens. They were referred to as "cricket stompers." I found that hilarious, because the people at church were about the dumbest folks in town. They loved Nixon and talked about how evil Kennedy had been.

One day I was in a local park, and there was a wedding reception for normals. They had bottles of beer on ice, and I copped one. It was my first beer ever. Miller High Life, the champagne of beers. That tells you everything about my economic class. So i drank that beer and liked it straightaway. No big whoop. I walked home and had a regular evening. Several days later my father's pissed off. "A concerned church member saw you drinking beer at the park," he said. I shrugged. Some Mormon was a ratfink, surprise. "I can't believe my fourteen-year-old son is an alcoholic," he said. But somehow I expected he could believe that. He believed many things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2017 02:51AM by donbagley.

Sounds to me like your dad was simply following the admonitions of Paul, and, you know... The 13th article of faith and shit. Maybe your dad believed all things. I know I do.

After being "inactive" as my friend called it, (we had actually gone down the rabbit hole and DH and I had left the church), this friend came to our house and told me that she had heard in ward council that we were inactive. She said that everyone in the meeting was shocked, and she told them that she would go ask me directly, since we are friends. I wasn't surprised that we were being discussed in ward council, as I have been to many, many inappropriate ward council meetings and know what goes on there. What DID surprise me was that this was our OLD WARD, and OLD STAKE. We had moved 3 years earlier.

We were at the yearly meeting with our accountant, who is LDS, but has never been in our ward, or stake. Before we finished the meeting, he got very serious, and said that he had been talking to our bishop and had found out that we were inactive. He then bore his testimony of the church and told us that we needed to go back to church because bishop blowhard really needed us. It was totally inappropriate for him to even mention church with us while acting in his profession. It really annoyed me. I guess it never occurred to him that it was crossing a line that shouldn't be crossed.

You people are assuming that the Mormon gossip is true.

I always lived a very open-book life, because we lived in the same ward and neighborhood as my TBM in-laws, and BIL, and SIL and spouses and children. No secrets, there. I moved to Utah, with the same open-ness. When I became a divorced single woman, the lies and rumors flew! I had two single brothers--one never married, one widowed, who would come and go from my house. I had a married cousin who was a good handyman, and I paid him. I really did not like the accusations.

One friend, who was also a business colleague, was gay, and went to our same ward. Because I was friendly with him, rumors came out that I might be gay, too. After all, I hadn't snapped up any of the stinky, polyester garment-clad, old widowers (old enough to be my father). Not all old men are icky--not at all--but these guys were. They were skirt-chasers. One had an affair with a friends newlywed daughter, one had a reputation of chasing his secretaries, and another went around the widows' houses in the neighborhood, "tucking them in and kissing them goodnight." Wealthy former stake presidents--what catches! (sarcasm). They didn't take kindly to my pushing their hands off of me, so they assumed I must be gay.

So--it was equally awkward when my female cousins would come up from St. George and spend a few nights at my house. Either way, I was going to be lied about.

I still get comments, about, "How did your children turn out so great?"

The majority of the gossip is lies and exaggeration.

Several years ago I lived in a pretty nice suburban ward outside of Utah. The bishop was a successful businessman and seemed to be a great guy and pretty normal. Priesthood Executive Meetings were even more of a shock than the ones I attended as a missionary. These people knew intimate details of the evil doings of about 1/3 of the ward members. It got to the point where I felt so unhappy of the disrespect of the members that I asked to be released. The Relief Society President was unbelievable in the gossip and filth she cycled through every Sunday morning.

There was a younger woman who was divorced with a child. I and several of the other ward members helped her fix things in her home etc. When I got in the PEC meetings I could not believe the stories that were being related about her; she kept going to the Bishop for help, and I think she had no clue her personal life was the soap opera for each Sunday morning in the bishops office.

I don't know that it is something particularly unique with Mormons, but I've noticed more and more recently that "concern" about the "worthiness" and "guilt/shame" of others is nothing more than a vehicle that members use to pry and gossip about other members.

My wife works with a young RM whose family is close friends with her sister. The RM is an arrogant arse who is engaged to be married this summer. He's been more of an arse than usual lately, and the gossip I've been hearing (though nobody really knows what's what) is that the RM is probably feeling guilty and worried that he may not be worthy (if he's honest) of a temple wedding because he has "no doubt" already slept with is wife-to-be.

Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't...I really don't give a damn. The point is that it's been discussed so much among my Mormon associates that it is now accepted as gospel despite the fact that none of them have ever talked with the RM or his fiance about their relationship...which, in itself would be none of anybody's business.

No privacy?

You mean like when you go to the bish to confess an act to correct your own path to salvation and do the right thing only to wind up in a disciplinary council consisting of the entire bishopric and stake presidency including their secretaries? And don't forget the follow up meeting so they could get "status". You mean that kind of privacy?

Turns out they have wives. Can't begin to convey how indescribably humiliating that is and how those feelings rushed to the top of my head every single time I saw any one of them in church or in public as my personal shame was yet again remembered by all.

Now I know the truth. Keep your damn mouth shut and learn how to forgive yourself!

p.s. Not saying all were tattling to their wives but what do you think my chances were out of seven men none of whom were sworn to privacy?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2017 11:09AM by AmIDarkNow?.

Why is it that everyone in the Mormon church, especially the bishopric and the SPs, are so nosy? Where in their standards works (and the Bible for that matter) do they think that they have the authority to stand in between man the God? Why is everyone's personal lives everyone else's business? I couldn't be a member of this church.

Their 'church' makes them do it. It's very hypocritical but that's the basis of LDS. It's EVIL at its root but it's blind - and ignorant - of that.

I didn't believe or attend for a few decades (since a teenager) but decided to visit a few times in the old home area. One Sunday, while with friends at a outdoor sip by the fire, bishop nosy [sees a s.m. post by me and] texts and says, (I'll 'pair-of-phrase'), "you have time for friends but no time for church...?" I was like, WHAT? That was it for me. That's the year I resigned. It was a few years ago.

I really didn't know the home teachers reported details about their visits until I watched the bard because I never was a main home teacher when I went I was pretty naive back then.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2017 04:20AM by badassadam.

I used to be the only black sheep in my family, but decade after decade, the bad fruit falls more and more from our family tree. Today, we are all mildly decent but unaccountable to any overseers. Just one sister remains faithful, but she has had some of the most tragic events a mom can suffer, Mormon or not.

Her hubby-Bishop has heart issues though valiant since birth, and here I am healthier than any man should be, at any age, dangit.

The Lord does work in mysterious ways, indeed.

The happiest of all the relatives is the one who has a foot in the only true church, then enjoys every vice desired, privately.

Time has a way with perfect humans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BWv7M5_2VY