Recently, while I was in Alberta, Canada, a chance came up for me to attend a Sacrament meeting.

I want to say, first up, that as a never-mo, I had a bit of a hard time believing everything I’d read here about sacrament meetings. I didn’t doubt that you guys had bad experiences, just that maybe your experiences in TSCC made sacrament meetings feel worse than they really were.

No more.

To those of you whose only experience of church has been mormon sacrament meetings, you have my deepest, sincerest sympathies.Truly. Not only did I not feel the spirit, a little voice in the back of my head was reminding me that instead of seeing more of Alberta’s beautiful scenery, I was wasting time I would never get back.

When I tried to explain it to my wife later, the closest I could get was to remind her of when our kidlet was two and had her first play kitchen set.

She knew it was supposed to be a kitchen, and she knew that food came from a kitchen. She knew there were certain things that Mommy and Daddy did in the real kitchen to make food, and she imitated them to the best of her ability in her play kitchen. We laughed when we watched her put a plastic ice-cream cone into the toy microwave and then serve it up to us in a teacup.

But we knew that no matter how much the play kitchen looked like a real kitchen, and no matter how closely the kidlet copied Mommy and Daddy, we would never get real food from her playset. Because she didn’t know what she was doing, and her equipment and ingredients weren’t real.

So it was with sacrament meeting. No matter how much it looked like a church, or how many rituals they threw in, you will never get an actual spiritual experience from it, because it isn’t real.

So, here follows my detailed report - sacrament meeting from a never-mo point of view.

I turned up at the chapel fifteen minutes early. The parking lot was less than half full, so no problems getting a spot. Maybe half the vehicles in the lot were minivans or SUVs.

The building was long and low, with few windows, which made the spire at one end look even more out of place. There were no obvious signs of a front door, so I walked toward the end with the spire. This turned out to be the correct decision. The door was about a third of the way back from the spire end, and in-set so it was hard to see. When I entered, I was immediately confronted by a larger-than-life-size portrait of mormon jesus on the far wall of a very small foyer. Almost like they were screaming, “See, it’s not just our name, we also have pictures of Jesus! We must be christians!”

I wore what I was comfortable with, in this case, dark gray shirt, dress blue jeans and brown leather shoes, so based on what I’d read here, I expected the half-dozen people in the foyer to immediately confront the intruder. Instead, they ignored me altogether while they chatted with each other.

Okay.

I decided to find the chapel. Long corridor coming off the foyer, lots of doors on either side, no signs.

Wait - I see two sets of double doors half way down the corridor. Since I’m one-for-one so far with finding doors, I walk to the first set of double doors, and see that it’s half open.

Bingo - I see pews and a couple of people inside. I want to sit at the back, so I continue to the second set of identical double doors, open them - and find myself in a basketball court. I see chairs at one end facing a huge room divider, and realize this is the overflow area you guys have talked about.

I return to the first set of doors and park myself on the rear pew where I have a pretty good view of the chapel.

I have no idea when this place was built, but it looks like some churches I’ve been in that date from the 1970s. The ceiling is actually high in the chapel, so it feels less oppressive than the corridor and foyer. I estimate the pews - which are padded - can hold about 150 people. Looking up the front, I see tiered rows of chairs, about 30 of them, facing the rest of the room. At first I think this is a choir loft, but I’ve never seen one that’s so out of proportion to the rest of the room.

There’s a baby grand piano high on the left side of the “choir loft”, with a lectern beside it. Over the piano is one of those boards that post the hymn numbers. I haven’t been in a church that used those boards for over twenty years.

With 10 minutes to go, there’s less than 30 people in the chapel, and none of them are kids. It takes until after sacrament is passed out before the last family comes in. At that point, I estimate that there are 100 people in the chapel. Lots of kids.

Some observations about the congregation before I continue. It's about 80% white. Most of the rest are Hispanic. One east asian couple and one african-canadian woman. Many young families, with between 2-4 kids. Half a dozen babies. Males overwhelmingly dressed in suit and tie, even the toddlers. Very culty looking. Women look like Stepford wives. I see two families where daughters are dressed in miniature versions of their mothers’ dresses.

In any other church I’ve been in (except the Catholic church), the kids would have been in some form of childcare program while the service was on. Here, they stayed in the room, and as a result, the parents spent most of their time entertaining or trying to control their broods. A side effect of this was that there was always some background noise in the room that actually made it hard at times to hear what was being talked about at the pulpit. During singing time, the background noise was actually almost as loud as the actual singing.

I also examined the green hardcover hymnal - another relic I haven’t seen in a church for many years. I was intrigued to see that although I was in Canada, there was a patriotic songs section (again, something I’ve never seen in a mainstream christian hymnal) that consisted almost entirely of American songs, with the exception of “God Save the Queen”. The music for the Canadian national anthem was literally a pasted-in sheet of paper at the end of the book.

Just before the meeting started, a man finally noticed the stranger in the back and came over to welcome me. He stood well within my personal bubble, and for a moment I thought I was about to be the recipient of a garment feel-up, but he merely shook my hand. A minute’s small talk, and he passed me off to another man who had done a mission in a country where I spent some of my youth - unfortunately for him, we had been on opposite sides of said country, and the conversation died off pretty quickly. He just turned around and went back to his brood of four kids and wife.

At that point, the meeting started, a couple of minutes late. The three men in the “choir loft” all looked surprisingly young - I would have guessed early to mid thirties.

I actually found the announcements interesting.

Members were urged to sign up to clean the chapel - “an opportunity to receive blessings”.
Reference was made to an upcoming “global indexing event” that everyone was meant to sign up for.

Both of these sounded like busy-work (I know the cleaning isn’t), and so far removed from my experience in mainstream christian churches that my heart ached involuntarily for those in the congregation.

Then someone was welcomed to the ward and those present asked to show their welcome with a show of hands. I noticed that even those parents who spent the entire meeting ignoring all in favor of entertaining their kids automatically raised their hands at the request.

Somebody was announced as having just given birth. A few minutes later, she would be announced as having been called to some position I couldn’t make out clearly. That was utterly crazy, to my non-mo ears. Less than a week from having a baby and she’s already been given a job!

Also, it was announced - a couple of times in fact - that if anyone in the ward had not yet received a calling, to please see the bishop ASAP.

Then came the sacrament. The boys carrying out the ritual were definitely on autopilot. Their movements reminded me of being an altar boy back in the day, although at least in the Catholic Church you get cool gowns, candles and censers. The Bishophric was served sacrament first, which again, I’ve only ever seen done in Catholic and Orthodox churches. Every protestant church I’ve been to, the pastors and elders serve sacrament to the congregation before taking it themselves.

Side point - the deacons sat separately from their families. I can’t see a need for this, unless it’s about trying to assure them that they’ve been set apart.

The first speaker was a recent arrival to the ward - he said so in this introduction. The talk itself was a 25 minute ramble. I couldn’t make out any point to it, unless it was to demonstrate as many ways as possible to use the term “blessing” wrongly. To keep from falling asleep, I began to note down these mis-uses.

It was a blessing that when he converted to mo’ism, his family rejected him (What???)
It was a blessing to be sent back to his home town as a missionary where he could see his family and friends still carrying on with their lives in false churches.
It was a blessing that his son got sent to this same mission 22 years later, for the same reason
It was a blessing that this same son missed his sister’s wedding because of his mission
It was a blessing that the sister’s wedding had to be postponed due to serious illness because when it could finally take place, they could get married in the just opened Calgary Temple.
It was a blessing that even though some of his mission companions had left the church, he was still in.
It was a blessing that he had good health, because it meant he could look forward to a long life, which gave him more time to prepare for eternity.


That last point really broke my heart from a Christian point of view, because it summed up for me that Mo’ism really is a “works-based” religion - ie, you have to earn your way into God’s love, and you never know if you’ve done “enough” to get there. Other people at this meeting also mentioned their hope that they would live long lives for the same reason.

Even if you take God out of the equation there’s huge potential for psychological trauma from feeling like you’re never good enough. What a horrible way to live.

After this ramble, there was another hymn. I finally noticed that next to the pianist was a lady conducting the congregation like it was one big choir. I think I was the only one who paid any attention to her. I should probably say that song in this service was played at a dirge-like tempo, and I really don’t blame the vast majority of the congregation for not singing - even the bishopric didn’t join in.

The second speaker was a member of the Stake High Council, and one of the three men I’d assumed was the bishopric. He was the youngest looking of the three. He said he’d been on the council for less than a year, and his topic was “making and keeping covenants”. I tried to pay attention, but just couldn’t by this stage. I did note that he repeated what the first speaker said about taking opportunities to fix personal errors in this life to be ready for the next.

One of the things I did during the service was to keep a running tally of the times various mormon figures were mentioned/quoted. It was highly illuminating, and became very useful a couple of weeks later (which is another story).

For interest sake, here’s the tally.

Holy Father - 5 mentions
Joseph Smith - 1 mention
Utchdorf - 1 mention, 1 quoted story
Eyering - 1 mention
Kimball - 2 mentions
McConkie - 1 mention
Nelson - 1 mention
Holland - 1 mention
Monson - 1 mention
Halstrom(?) - 1 mention

The Bible - 1 mention, 0 quotes
The Book of Mormon - 2 mentions, 0 quotes

The Temple - 2 mentions

I will say that I have no idea how similar this service was to the ones in the States, but I can say that there was nothing in this service that would make me want to come back again and learn more.

I’ll close by repeating what I said at the beginning - you guys who have lived this have my sincerest sympathies.

Condorstrikes.

Thanks for that detailed report. What a blessing to not have to attend those meetings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2017 05:33PM by donbagley.

Yep, thats sacrament meeting. And yes, the majority of mormons go through life never feeling like they're good enough. That's why they keep going to those horribly boring meetings where they quote the leaders and talk about them all the time.

I didn't much care for the leaders that mostly keep themselves sequestered away from the majority of members. They give incredibly boring speeches, and then demand the members use those horrible dry speeches as outlines for talks in Sacrament meeting. I don't think I have came out of a sacrament meeting where I felt spiritually fed. Al-Anon does a better job of that then the mormons do, and i'm not kidding about that.

Mormon meetings are the worst of the worst imo. I don't know how I managed to stay for so long. If those people want more time, all they have to do is leave the mormon corporation and they will instantly have more time, and be more spiritually fed. They just don't see it though. It's really quite sad.

Play kitchen: Best. Analogy. Ever.

The one thing I also distinctly remember the first I went was the constant yammering and running around of the little kids--with all the talk or "reverence to the Lord" this just made the meeting more farcical.

I seem to remember that my non-member family got to sit up with the big shots, since this was the send-off for my brother's mission; it was the perfect vantage point to see all the half-vacant faces in the congregation.

After that I went to Sunday School where they talked about the 3 and 8 witnesses to the gold plates: that's when I really wondered if I should join the church, because, after all...there were WITNESSES!

On the other hand, I didn't want to join, because, you know, I wanted to...you know...see bare shoulders and masturbate.

> On the other hand, I didn't want to join,
> because, you know, I wanted to...you know...see
> bare shoulders and masturbate.


There's an old saying: "See Naples and die" (or words to that effect).

Perhaps another, more contemporary version might be "see bare shoulders and masturbate".

Actually, it would make one helluva T-shirt slogan :-)

How about "See nipples and die."?? Got to get the real porn angel.

>I will say that I have no idea how similar this service was to the ones in the States, but I can say that there was nothing in this service that would make me want to come back again and learn more.

Your report could have been written by pretty much anybody in TSCC. That SM could have been held in any ward in the US, Canada, Europe, South America, Africa, Australia, or anywhere. The only thing that might have been different is the language.

congratulations on surviving. ;-0

This reminds me: I've overdue for my digital rectal exam. My prostate's been fine up to now, but it's good to keep tabs on it.

Digitalize and it's going to be done in some simulated reality with a computer, or digital as in the doctor is going to try and insert as many fingers as possible into your rectum?


Heh heh heh....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2017 12:23AM by midwestanon.

Condorstrikes, that's sacrament meeting in a nutshell in the states. I am a nomo investigator who attends the local family ward with my neighbors and go to Institute regularly where I politely challenge the instructors and get some Mormons to actually question and ponder their beliefs.

Oh, yes, I attended my first stake conference and there was a family of 7 or 8 children. The father was sitting with the infant in his arms and sleeping throughout it. Can't blame him - big family and sole breadwinner

I do love the Mormon people sincerely and have a big heart for them :) I enjoy their cooking club and will be attending my first fireside soon. Still have to do Super Saturday, a holiday ward event, and their sewing club.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2017 10:46PM by canary21.

Next time go to FaT meeting. You will learn the definition of crazy.

+1000

Imagine that same scenario from the point of view of a 10 year old kid, where there's a good chance you might pass out from lack of sustenance after 3 hours. Ungodly boredom.

Imagine that same scenario from the point of view of a 10 year old kid, where there's a good chance you might pass out from lack of sustenance after 3 hours. Ungodly boredom.

Imagine that same scenario from the point of view of a 10 year old kid, where there's a good chance you might pass out from lack of sustenance after 3 hours. Ungodly boredom.

Amazing. It sounds exactly the same as when I stopped attending over thirty years ago.

Ironic too, as one definition of "damnation" that I learned in the church was that it meant to be literally dammed - stopped from all progress and forward motion. Yet week after week the same people go and in spiritual silence mime the same routine, anxious and nervous, judging themselves and their fellow members, and never moving forward.

We were travelling through Eastern Europe with a friend who had been raised Catholic. On Sunday morning in Serbia, we visited an orthodox church and saw some of their service. I then suggested we go to the LDS church because I was curious to see how the church was doing there. I warned our friend what it was going to be like, telling her that compared to going to mass, LDS sacrament meeting was going to come off a lot more like a business meeting, with announcements and ward "business," followed by talks by random members. Once it was over, she confirmed that that was pretty much what it was (and that she was not impressed).

Just a note, there are patriotic hymns in the United Methodist hymnal (I used to be Methodist). Not many, and they're in the back. I imagine they don't appear in international versions of the hymnal.

condorstrikes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No matter how...many rituals
> they threw in, you will never get an actual
> spiritual experience from it, because it isn’t
> real.

Amen to that.
With the caveat that the same applies to *any* church...:)

Thanks for sharing this. As a never-Mo, I've never attended, but a sort of morbid curiosity makes me want to. At the same time, I don't want to bother.

My dad and stepmother did attend once with my TBM brother and his family. He described it very similar to what you have, and folks here confirmed that it's universal when I asked in the past.

He said it was more like a business meeting than a church service, with no reverence or solemnity. There was endless cacophony, people talking, most folks tuned out and not paying attention, people coming and going, etc. He also described entering the place as more like a courthouse than a church, everything austere and sort of overly solid, like the inmates couldn't be trusted with anything nice.

Before Correlation became the required fashion, Sacrament Meetings were often interesting. People talked about things like "The Three Nephites" and other now buried supernatural Mormon embarrassments. Many people believed back then that going back to Zion was almost just around the corner, and presented ideas about getting to Missouri without a car.They pointed out how the Church was getting closer and closer to being able to live the Law of Consecration. I came to the Church as as idealistic, truly believing teen, so I paid my tithing with eagerness! I couldn't wait to go to Zion, to help build it and aid in getting Consecration started. This was the early-to-mid 70's. In the late 70's, the church was already starting to gradually move away form this stuff.

I grew up in that nutjob Mormonism, which was a fusion of finance and fairy tales. It was bizarre to watch someone testifying to something no more believable than flying saucers, and weeping while doing so. Mormonism taught me that people are not credible with their claims. A lot of people are just floating on a sea of superstition with no navigation other than a magic Liahona.

Redeeming zion is thrust upon the shoulders of the young idealistic exuberant youth...for the same reason the young are sent to fight wars with little positive effect on our world and dubious motivations...if they wait till the young are thirty the frontal lobes may kick in and theyll just wave from the porch.... Coffee in hand as the sheep head out for bf missourri with their cute little handcarts...isnt it wonderful that each new generation will still sucker for a 200 year old crock of shit...and the old buggers hyping them up already know its a crock...but stipends are worth pretending for...the law of consecration has been bantered about for two centuries...its likely the greatest tool in the church arsenal to keep the sheep paying...annd briggy living in big houses...heaven knows i suckered for it

"Their own worst enemy" I think this video backs up that notion quite well, and it does it in barly over a minute of MORmON sackerment meeting HELL.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AVj0lSQ_Yg

You know what gets me every time I take sacrament? It's store bought bread. I wonder which brand I'm having every week.

Is this a play on words?

No. I'm absolutely serious.

I no longer attend, but when I did I was always curious what kinds of bacteria lived on the hands of the kids who were tearing up the bread I was about to consume.

You better believe it's a combination of urine, seminal fluids, snot, and fecal matter. I can't think of anything less hygienic than a 13 year old boy. I'd like to engage in some personal revisionist history and say that I was the one in a million who actually was a hygienic thirteen-year-old, but I'm almost certain that that's not true.

You'll find cleaner sheets at hourly rate hotels in downtown Detroit then on the hands of those boys.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2017 12:30AM by midwestanon.

condorstrikes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ll close by repeating what I said at the
> beginning - you guys who have lived this have my
> sincerest sympathies.

But you didn't close with your testimony of the untruthfulness of the experience.

Don't they still have a closing of talks with their testimony?

Wait, Joseph Smith was not mentioned numerous times? I could create a drinking game with the amount of times Smith was mentioned during Sacrament Meetings in the ward I used to attend in Columbia, MD.

I love how volunteering to clean up the chapel is sold as an "opportunity to receive blessings."

Loved the play kitchen analogy too. The meeting sounds as boring as hail. I still go to a sacrament meeting every other year or so for a mission farewell, homecoming or once to my nephews' primary program. It's so bland, uninspiring, unspiritual. I personally like going to Catholic Mass occasionally, because I leave feeling uplifted. I also attend an evangelical church, where I usually learn something and they have fun music. Mormon meetings are a living death. These people are being starved and don't even realize it. You get more peace and comfort from a hike in the mountains than their services, which are draining at best.

And I agree - you should try a fast and testimony meeting when you have an hour of your life you want to waste.

"Hold onto your purse, boots and coat."

That's the only advice I have to anyone attending a Mormon ward meeting.