Supposing you adamantly don't believe that life will continue after you die, will you be in a state of shock or denial if you find out your soul is eternal?

My question isn't presupposing you're going to transcend the "crossing over" part. I'm simply curious if you discover you have a soul after the body has died, will you be more in shock or pleasantly surprised?

I used the word 'think' as to your thought processes as a spirit, not as a human with a brain, but the conscious part of the soul that would be attuned to the spirit world, if indeed one exists.

Note: not a trick question! :)

My response: Huh, life goes on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2017 04:45PM by GregS.

I will think, I hope this is not eternal.

I will think that there is "life after Death".

What will believers think if they die and find out there is no life after death? ;)?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2017 04:58PM by Whiskeytango.

Now that I consider to be a "trick" question!

;)

We will never know there isn't....

I'll be incredibly relieved. I'll have a ton of questions and then I'll go exploring.

Life after death has nothing to do with the question of the existence of a god.

Atheism does not equal belief in no life after death.

That's true. There are some atheists on this board who adamantly believe there is no life after death. That's who I was directing the query to.

Thanks for clarifying that point, however!

:)

As an atheist, my thoughts on the afterlife are simple:

Humans and other forms of life are like waves on the ocean. They're temporary, unique and beautiful. Eventually they'll collapse and just be part of the ocean again.

However, they were always part of the ocean anyway. They weren't really unique things in and of themselves, they were just the ocean waving.

I don't think when waves collapse there are ghost waves. Therefore, I don't think when humans (standing waves) collapse there are human ghosts or anything like that.

I'm open to being surprised, though!

kvothe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Life after death has nothing to do with the
> question of the existence of a god.
>
> Atheism does not equal belief in no life after
> death.


+1

Even at my most TBM, when I'd think about the afterlife it was full of reuniting with deceased love ones and exploring the mysteries of time and space. I never really thought about God in it or what he might be doing. It was all about personal relationships and personal growth. It was very eye-opening when I realized that an omnipotent God wasn't a necessary component of that version of the afterlife (just like he isn't a necessary component of this life).

Cool insight!

As long as there's beer...

I would be pleasantly surprised. Assuming life after death doesn't suck, like I'm some ghost stuck haunting my old house or something.

I see it like someone saying, "hey, there could be a million dollars buried underneath your house." If certainly be pleasantly surprised if it were true but I'm not gonna bulldoze my house to find out "just in case." Need more reason to believe it's true besides someone else telling me it could be true.

I'm guessing I'd feel like most other people.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2017 05:47PM by thingsithink.

how will one think without a brain ?

The first thing I'll want to do is fly.

Hiking, biking, swimming & sex; association with selected family members might be OK too.

Overall, as long as there are plenty of choices, no violence or abuse (any type) against others.

I would think God I hope this will be better than the last run.

I think the transitory nature of being a human being makes it special. We know it's not going to last forever and that makes us want to savor life. It makes us want to do things that make us feel good.

So, if I died and found out that the next new phase is going to last forever, I'd be wondering what I'm supposed to be doing and where would motivation come from.

"This will be interesting."

I couldn't think of one better than this.

One night while I wasn't high at all (wink, wink)...I thought...what if we don't really know anything about death, because no one has ever really died, they just enter another dimension.....

You may be right about that!

Think of the butterfly, who had to die to the chrysalis so it could have wings and 12,000 eyes on its little body to enable it to see from every angle.

:)

And what makes you think that dead people know they are dead?

All I know is that if I get shipped off to a Gospel Essentials class, I'll ki....

Oh, wait.

My friend always talked about different dimensions before he died if anybody knows it's him I still think he's going strong somewhere.

Eternal life? As in trillions and trillions of years, while the universe I've known and loved succumbs to thermodynamics and drifts away to nothing? The stars expand until they're no longer invisible before burning out?

Or does thermodynamics no longer apply? Given that entropy is how our concept of time currently has direction, does this mean that time in the afterlife will no longer have direction? Time will be absurd? And thus I'm no longer subject to the ravages of time? I'm in some sudden combination of Disneyland and "Groundhog Day"?

And what about right and wrong? Are there no moral choices? No personal foibles to overcome? Am I perfect? Do I still need to keep a to-do list?

All the cool people aren't there, and instead I'm surrounded by the straight-and-narrow (i.e. boring) folks?

And my cats: I've rescued more than 40 cats in my life. I can deal with them, maybe up to a half-dozen at a time, but are they all gonna show up at once?

I need more details, please. As is, sounds like there's a steep learning curve--it's a case of PTSD waiting to happen. Unless I'm a totally different person--i.e., unless I'm no longer ME.

Doesn't sound promising, frankly.

No need to worry. The cats will take care of you. I know this, because one of my dogs told me that all of those rescued animals will do that. (I was dreaming at the time, but it was a nice dream, so I'm holding on to it.)

I ran it by my cats and they're like, "What? You trust dogs now?"

My first thought will be "Hmm... Son of a bitch! How 'bout that!? I didn't see this coming."

My second thought will be "Where is that bastard, Joseph Smith? I'm going to kick his ass if there is anything left of it."

A nightmare: As soon as you die, you appear in a room with two large men dressed as missionaries there. One of them says "hello brother" or sister (your name), as the case may be. "We're here to escort you to the spirit prison. You'll stay there to read scriptures and repent and pray all day every day for a thousand years, until the millenium is over. At that point, you'll be reunited with your body, well most of your body anyway, your genitals will probably be missing. Any questions?". Yes, can you just kill me now? We can't do that brother. You're already dead. Welcome to the spirit prison.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2017 09:17PM by azsteve.

"Howdy Donald! Hey Bill, Monica, Hillary, Laura, and Dub! Jack, did you and Bobbie and Marilyn really... Milo, is that you in the bushes. Hey, where am I?"

"adamantly don't believe..."?

Belief is "adamant." Usually in spite of contrary evidence.
Lack of belief isn't. It's generally simply a reasonable response to a lack of evidence.

And never mind that there's no evidence of any kind that anything can "think" without a brain...

I'd be surprised. Whether the surprise was "pleasant" or not depended on what kind of "afterlife" there was. If it was any of the things religious people pretend are real, I'd start looking for a way out as soon as possible. If it was beer volcanoes, I'd be pleasantly surprised :)

Damn! I love it when you talk dirty! :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2017 10:23PM by BYU Boner.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'd be surprised. Whether the surprise was
> "pleasant" or not depended on what kind of
> "afterlife" there was. If it was any of the
> things religious people pretend are real, I'd
> start looking for a way out as soon as possible.

There is no escape from hell. You'll experience conscience torment forever, after your pathetic, self-absorbed, little life is over. Enjoy.

Henosh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no escape from hell. You'll experience
> conscience torment forever, after your pathetic,
> self-absorbed, little life is over. Enjoy.

Your imaginary "hell" doesn't instill the fear of the ignorant in me like it does you. I'm not sure which is worse -- that you imagine such a place, or that you appear to take so much pleasure in imagining that some (most?) of your fellow human beings should go there because they don't believe in the same fairy tales that you do...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2017 12:56AM by steve benson.

The notion of existence in some form beyond what we experience now is not as ridiculous as an earnest belief in Santa Claus. Come on.

midwestanon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The notion of existence in some form beyond what
> we experience now is not as ridiculous as an
> earnest belief in Santa Claus. Come on.

Yes, actually, it is. In fact, even more so.
See, there really *was* a person upon whom the "Santa Claus" myth was based. So there's at least a tiny point of reality in the Santa myth.

There is no observable point of reality in any afterlife myth. None, zero, zip, nada. It's entirely, 100% and completely wishful thinking without supporting evidence of reality.

That doesn't mean there ISN'T some kind of "existence in some form beyond what we experience now." There could be, even though it's incredibly unlikely. There isn't, however, any evidence there IS such a thing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2017 05:05PM by ificouldhietokolob.

I'm just going to have to disagree with you, hie. And like other people mentioned, it's not about a belief in God or any specific religious belief for that matter, or respecting people's beliefs, or the various Notions that civilizations have held for thousands of years about the afterlife. It just makes sense to me, personally. We came from something, and we become something. Weather the thing we become ends up becoming a non-sentient rotting corpse, well, obviously I don't have any proof.

You know what I meant about my belief in Santa Claus, and I think you know what I mean about my belief in the afterlife. You really don't think it's even slightly ludicrous to draw comparisons between the two?

I hate using this argument, but there isn't any evidence against the existence of the afterlife either. Which isn't something you can say about a lot of things that are commonly associated with the religion, where there is often lots of evidence against the existence of, or belief in, etc. Etc.

I think the preoccupation with the afterlife is damaging and not very meaningful, but in the context of thinking about your life in general, there is nothing wrong with having ponderous Notions about what happens after we die. It just seems natural to me. To question.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2017 08:45PM by midwestanon.

midwestanon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm just going to have to disagree with you, hie.

That's fine. No hard feelings :)

> And like other people mentioned, it's not about a
> belief in God or any specific religious belief for
> that matter, or respecting people's beliefs, or
> the various Notions that civilizations have held
> for thousands of years about the afterlife.

I agree, it's not, because none of those are evidence for or against an "afterlife."

> It
> just makes sense to me, personally. We came from
> something, and we become something.

Well, if you're talking about atoms or molecules, those aren't "you." "You" use them (and the ones that make you up change by the billions daily), but they aren't "you." And when "you" are no more, they'll still be around, and will get used by other things, but they won't be "you" then, either.

If by "afterlife" you mean "my atoms and/or molecules will still be around," then we have no disagreement -- other than on the concept of that being an "afterlife," since "you" (or "me") won't be in any form still living or existing...:)

> Weather the
> thing we become ends up becoming a non-sentient
> rotting corpse, well, obviously I don't have any
> proof.

Well, actually, we do have plenty of evidence that when we die, we "become" rotting corpses. It's the idea that we're something besides that for which there isn't any evidence.

> You know what I meant about my belief in Santa
> Claus, and I think you know what I mean about my
> belief in the afterlife.

To be honest, I'm not sure I do (about either). I was sincere in what I wrote above -- that at least the modern idea of "Santa" has a bit of observed reality as its base, while the idea of an "afterlife" doesn't. Unless, as above, by "afterlife" you mean atoms and molecules that aren't "you," in which case it's all good.

> You really don't think
> it's even slightly ludicrous to draw comparisons
> between the two?

No, if I thought my comparison was ludicrous, I wouldn't have posted it.

> I hate using this argument, but there isn't any
> evidence against the existence of the afterlife
> either.

Depends on what you mean by "afterlife," but...sure.
Which doesn't, of course, mean there's a good reason to believe in an "afterlife." I don't claim there's no afterlife -- because I don't know. I simply point out that with no evidence to show there IS such a thing, there's no reason to pretend you DO know and claim there is one (not that YOU did that...).

> I think the preoccupation with the afterlife is
> damaging and not very meaningful, but in the
> context of thinking about your life in general,
> there is nothing wrong with having ponderous
> Notions about what happens after we die. It just
> seems natural to me. To question.

I agree. At the present time, given the evidence we have, is it reasonable to answer the question "what happens after we die" with "there's a marvelous magical afterlife?" Not in any way. Is it reasonable to answer the question with, "Nothing, as far as we can tell, except a rotting corpse"? Yes, it is -- since there's plenty of evidence THAT is going to happen (barring cremation or something along those lines).

I don't know if there's any "afterlife." I do know that we are all going to die, that the bodies we leave behind will no longer be living or "us," and that their parts will be atoms and molecules that get used by other living things (and not living things). Is there "more" than that? Got me. Nobody's managed to show any evidence there is "more," so believing there will be "more" isn't reasonable, but I won't rule it out.

I'm perfectly fine with there not being anything "more." I won't make up some fantasy with no evidence for it to "comfort" myself or others. I'm also perfectly fine if, despite no evidence, there turns out to be something "more." Unless it's the mormon "more," or any of several claimed christian/muslim versions. Those would suck. :)

The same thing as before this life. Nothing.

Eta: here we go again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2017 03:52AM by Cpete.

I find this to be a bit of a meaningless question. Years ago a minister tried to convince me, via his limited knowledge of physics, that eternal life was possible since the spirit is massless. A massless object, if it can be called an object, is not subject to time. Therefore the spirit is eternal. That was not a particularly satisfying answer to my question. What kind of existence would we have being massless?

I imagine the spirit self to be made from ethereal matter, not entirely without mass per se, but without gravity as we understand it.

"ORBIT MANIFESTO

A moving point generates a line

A moving line generates a plane

A moving plane generates a volume

A moving volume generates a hypervolume

The threshold movement is attained at the speed of light

At the speed of light mass becomes infinite and time ceases to be

A timeless, mass-less entity can travel to any point in the universe instantly

A timeless, mass-less entity can manifest to all points in the universe instantly

The mysterious aspect of a human, electromagnetic-ethereal, travels at or beyond the speed of light

Know we the flesh is fleeting. The things men count great are nothing to us. The things we seek are not of the body but are only the perfected state of the soul. Long, long ago, I cast off my body. Wandered I free through the vastness of ether, circled the angles that hold man in bondage. Know ye, O man, ye are only a spirit. The body is nothing. The Soul is the All. Let not your body be a fetter. Cast off the darkness and travel in Light. Cast off your body, O man, and be free, truly a Light that is ONE with the Light. . THOTH....

*HUMAN BRAINWAVES: DELTA, THETA, ALPHA, BETA; EARTH WAVES: DELTA, THETA, ALPHA, BETA"

http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/index.htm

.

This reads like the title page to the Heaven's Gate cult. BTW, Mar 26 is the 20th anniversary of their failure to reach Hale-Bopp comet.

The "cyberspace" link I shared and quoted from was maintained by a former Mormon himself, who passed away in 2008. His family has kept his website online, to honor his memory.

From the basis of his blog, though he was no longer LDS, he seemed more of a spiritual guru with a bent for science.

Depends.

If I wake up to a fair fate that is tolerable, I'll be relieved. That assumes that this afterlife makes sense and isn't a "spooky mormon hell dream". If the puzzle pieces fall in place and I can say, oh, now I get it. Great.

If I wake up in hell, obviously, I will regret that and immediately wish I had been superstitious in life. I will blame intellectuals, feminists, and gays for deceiving me. I will mourn that science was just a trick to deceive me, and I fell for it.

This is one of my mother's favorite questions to ask me in hopes of bringing me back into the fold.

I tend to take two approaches to life after death. First a scientific one. The atoms that make up my body once made up many different things, a star for instance. After I die my atoms will become part of the earth, then eventually they will be sent out into the galaxy when our sun dies. They will then become other things. I take great comfort in the idea that I (my atoms) will not stop existing because of death.

The other approach is a more sentimental one. My children, family and friends will carry my memory with them after I am gone. They will think of me and they will tell stories about me to their children. In this way we all live on after death.

But in response to your direct question if I find that my soul lives on after death I will be pleased to learn I was incorrect.

There isn't. Zero chance. Safe bet.

HH =)

I'm an atheist and believe in the potential of life beyond this life.

Athiesm generally means non belief in the Gods and man made speculations of religion that have been presented to date. It doesn't necessarily mean strictly believing in no life after death.

You could equally ask that question to Religious people. I think many of them don't really believe in life after death themselves seeing how their BIG priority is to avoid and/or delay going there.

It is what it is.

I'm certain that joining any of the groups of 'ritual performers/hoop jumpers' (religions) will not change anything for me or for them as far as eternal destinies are concerned.

Religion just changes the here and now for some people, sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the worst. The worser the cult, the greater the pain and exploitation and time wasting and/or destruction of lives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2017 02:30PM by Zeezromp.

"Well, I guess my hunch was correct."

The person you're referring to who was former LDS didn't die from suicide, or from joining a cult that led to his demise.

He died from a heart attack at the age of 66, playing in the snow with one of his grandchildren.

Here's my top five:
1. Wheres the snack bar?
2. Do I get wings (I want them in black)
3. (If Mormonism by a slim chance is right and through a clerical error I get to Celestial Kingdom) I hope my eternal husband can at least do yard work
4. (If reincarnation) Would it be possible to be a unicorn?
5. I hope they play metal here

If it's a Christian after life, my first thought will be:

"Well I'll be damned."

"Well shit, I was wrong."

"Jesus Christ"

I don't doubt there's an afterlife or spirit world.

What I am totally clueless is what it's going to be like, other than people who've shared NDE's who've been to the other side, but were brought back because of medical advances in science.

If there's a heaven it would need to be vastly larger than this earth size, because of all the spirits that have ever lived.

It makes sense to me that heaven is going to be more varied and diverse than anything we've experienced in this realm.

Thanks everybody for the excellent replies.

It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma, no doubt.

;)