Since leaving the church those people haven't unfriended me on Facebook and one lady messaged me to say she loves me regardless of my beliefs now and that I'm always welcome on her life and home.
I thought that was nice so I said I was sorry and I hadn't messaged her to tell her directly I was leaving because I was scared. She's very quick witted and has an answer for everything! Anyway I said "sorry I left. I read things about church history that made me uncomfortable and my research lead to other things and so I decided it wasn't for me"
She said
"I told you from the beginning there were many lies written about he church that make people into non believers"
I didn't know how to respond so I wrote in reply
"It was church sources written by the church itself that made me leave"
Actually it was the CES letter and my own feeling of bullshit because I never once felt the spirit but had Jewish, Muslim, Pagan and Christian friends who all said they felt the "holy whizzbang hooby-wotty spirit"
ANYWAY
my question is if I end up discussing it with her, is there a way to conclude TSCC is rubbish from their OWN sources? Without reading CES letter or anti-morm articles?


Edited for worst embarrassing typo ever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2017 07:34AM by pickleweed.

While I was already having serious doubts about the veracity of the LDS church, the final straw on the back of the proverbial camel came from a section of the D&C.

Unless they now want to count their own scriptures as being "anti-Mormon", I never read any anti-Mormon materials.

For my whole life, I had been taught by church members (confirmed by scripture) that the earth is 13k years old. Then one day I decided to try and find out how the scientists could get it so wrong. I was in for a big surprise.

Apparently believing in an old earth is compatible with belief in mormonism. I don't know how. It was not compatible with the mormonism that I was taught.

If you can pin down a specific, factual belief it is relatively easy to find unbiased sources that can prove/disprove that belief. The problem is finding a belief that someone is willing to bet their testimony on. Apparently Joseph Smith can screw 14 year old children without destroying the testimonies of some people :(

She probably won't inquire further, but if she does, you can point her to the church essays. If you want to try to keep your Mormon friends, I would not go into any detail about why you left the church. I would just say that you came to find that it's not for you.

I agree with summer.

Bottom-line: if you WANT to provide some sort of explanation, by all means go ahead and do so. But you don't HAVE to. You don't owe anyone an explanation or justification for something so personal.

Many Mormons will try to lure us down that rabbit hole--get us to give some argument that they will then attempt to rebut. Your "friend" has already tried to do this when she said "I told you from the beginning there were many lies written about he church that make people into non believers."

No actual friend would ever say or write such a thing. That statement indicates a basic lack of respect for you. It sounds like you've taken the high road--i.e., have not lectured or harassed your former Mormon contacts.

If they won't leave you alone, dump 'em faster than a three-week-old burrito. Neither three-week-old burritos nor sanctimonious Mormons are good for your health.

Yes. I did.

I had struggled all my life to get an actual testimony, but I went along with the program anyway, thinking it would come eventually, thinking there was something wrong with me. One day, on my mission, I was telling an investigator how beautiful the One True Gospel was when I realized I didn't really believe any of what I was saying. I realized I was skeptical of the First Vision and all of JS's other claims -- not because I'd read any anti stuff, but because it just wasn't credible or believable to me. I realized I disagreed with most of the core doctrines. And I realized trying to be a proper Mormon was damaging my mental health. So I stepped away from the church and moved out of Zion. Once I was outside the Mormon noise machine and social reinforcement (or is it really social enforcement?) my head cleared, I stopped hating myself, and I realized not only did I not believe Mormonism, but that I also didn't believe in a supernatural world. "Oh, wow. I'm an atheist. I've probably always been."

It was decades before I read any materials about why Mormonism is false. None of it was surprising or shocking to me. "Well, duh, because it was all made up, like all the other religions."

truth is anti-mormon.

There are many lies written about the church that make people believe in it.

Yes. FAIR.

My husband left due to what he learned in Sunday school things like "spiritual eyes". He had new questions every Sunday "how can someone see with their spiritual eyes?". So for him the answer is yes.

The first two books I read on early church history that helped me gain understanding and insight into what really transpired, were written by LDS authors Fawn Brodie and Valleen Tippets Avery with Linda Newell.

No Man Knows My History, by Fawn. And the life bio of Emma Hale Smith by the other two historians.

They all ended up leaving the church after being excommunicated or left on their own volition because of what they uncovered, writing the bios.

Did that make their works "anti-Mormon?" Not really. That they opened eyes & ears to truer "revelation" is more like it.

pickleweed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since leaving the church those people haven't
> unfriended me on Facebook

"those people" I do not automatically know who "those people" are with so little context.


> and one lady messaged me
> to say she loves me regardless of my beliefs now
> and that I'm always welcome on her life and home.
>
> I thought that was nice so I said I was sorry

You are sorry about what? That you left THE church? or That THE church is such a phony load of garbage that you were compelled to leave ? It is possible to be sorry about that, but just as much, that really is not your fault either. Based on such a broad declaration, some people might get the impression that you are sorry about your decision to leave, to the extent that you would reconsider your decision. Is that the impression that you really wanted to give. It would have been better to simply thank the other person for their enduring continued affection.

> and
> I hadn't messaged her to tell her directly I was
> leaving because I was scared. She's very quick
> witted and has an answer for everything! Anyway I
> said "sorry I left. I read things about church
> history that made me uncomfortable and my research
> lead to other things and so I decided it wasn't
> for me"
> She said
> "I told you from the beginning there were many
> lies written about he church that make people into
> non believers"

Yah, but in the larger picture, there are FAR MORE LIES that have been told about MORmONISM to try to make people into believers, because no body LIES about MORmONISM as much as MORmONS do, not even close !!!

> I didn't know how to respond so I wrote in reply
> "It was church sources written by the church
> itself that made me leave"
> Actually it was the CES letter and my own feeling
> of bullshit because I never once felt the spirit
> but had Jewish, Muslim, Pagan and Christian
> friends who all said they felt the "holy whizzbang
> hooby-wotty spirit"
> ANYWAY
> my question is if I end up discussing it with her,
> is there a way to conclude TSCC is rubbish from
> their OWN sources? Without reading CES letter or
> anti-morm articles?


Listen to THE sources that James Whitefield was using, and then observe the conclusions he was compelled to arrive at. One of the best presentations ever at ex Mormon conference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIId8l-8bzs



I NEVER would have put any stock in what anti MORmONS were saying about THE ( MORmON) church except that I knew the MORmON PRofit was BLATANTLY LYING about MORmON history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YEMX0VooD4

I enthusiastically agree with you about Jim Whitefield.

That Jim Whitefield exmo foundation presentation is devastating! It isn't just "one of the best presentations"... IMHO. It is the single best systematic deconstruction of Mormonism available.

His "Mormon Delusion" series of books are excellent as well (http://www.themormondelusion.com/home.html) but the thing that makes that youtube presentation so good is that, unlike the more difficult task of engaging a written work (ie. the CES letter, etc), in 90 minutes (of non-effort on your part) he undermines every single truth claim of the TSCC and manages to do it in an entertaining way.

Good stuff!

Didn't mean to respond to myself...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2017 11:18AM by westerly62.

(thank you) I really liked the James Whitefield presentation at exmo conference and I heartily endorse it.

I spent several hours working on it to upgrade the substandard audio of the original version to more readily consumable audio which is why it is posted on an independent account, NOT because I wanted to hijack it from the exmo foundation, which I heartily thank for bringing James to its venue and having him present. James personally thanked me for the improved audio version, a moment that I will never forget.

My leaving had nothing to do with anti mormon literarure.

At the time there was no internet. I didn't purchase any a ti books. What little I read was so full of errors I discarded it all as unreliable.

I knew about polygamy. My ancestors practiced it. They were wives of Joseph Smith. One line descends from Josephine Lyons who we to this day consider to be a biological daughter of Joseph Smith.

For me the church's continual tightening of control was too much. D&C tells us that it is not God's way to command us in all things but that we should be free to chose for ourselves to do good.

Second was the worship of leaders. When I challenged them. I was condemned. I believed we should do things by common consent after thoughtful consideration. In the Book of Mormon, the Ressurectected Jesus directs the Nephites to not take his teaching at face value but to go home and pray to the Father and ask if he taught the truth. To me, if the Son of God taught that he could be challenged, how much more should this apply to man? Since I would not cower before men. I didn't fit in.

I knew about the seer stone. To me it didn't matter. It was a tool to get revelation.

The temple to me was hollow. I never felt empowered by it.

Over time I realised the church changed. I no longer fit in. I felt uninspired by its new teachings.

One day I realised I couldn't raise my children in it.

One day I realised it was a hollow religion based on getting worldly praise. Draining the masses of their resources without returning anything. Offering nothing tangible.

My leaving was gradual. One day, like a ripe fruit falling off a tree I simply walked away for good.

I left before I knew most of the historical and doctrinal problems of the church. I rejected the concept of god found in all Abrahamic religions and the notion of eternal judgment.

I learned about the multiple versions of the first vision, the rock in the hat, JS sending men on missions and marrying their wives, BOA "translation," and many other things AFTER walking away.

So, yes--it's very possible to leave without reading anything "anti-mormon."

For me it was Matthew 24: 23-27.

I bought the NIV version, began reading it from the beginning, and found TONS of versus that directly contradicted the church.

Here is the snippet from Matthew 24:

23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Jesus himself said that he will appear to NO ONE before the second coming. When he returns, it will be for the whole world to see... not just one man out in the wilderness, or in some inner room.

This DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS the first vision... and the whole church weighs on that event.

There are many more, but that was the final nail for me.

However, if you point this out... they will throw at you the JST version of Matt 24. You see, this was a problem for Joseph Smith, and the entire verse had to be "re-translated" to fit the Mormon narrative.

Do some research on this verse... it's correct in it's re-mastered NIV.

Or... you could just dismiss the entire argument and claim that you are an atheist. There are TONS of atheists that lurk on this board ready to strike down anyone who still has a shred of belief in God left that can show you how.

I left without having been exposed to hardly even a smidgen of anti-mormon material. The only anti stuff I had ever really seen was limited to about 15 minutes of taking a wrong turn on USENET (alt.mormon I think) back in the mid-90's. I read a couple of posts that scared the hell out of my "trying sooo damn hard to be a good TBM" ass and got the hell out of there.

I didn't leave TSCC because of it wasn't "true". I left because it wasn't good.

To this day, I really wouldn't give a damn if Mormonism was "true" if it wasn't so all-fired ruinous in the way that it strips the real virtues of love, kindness, charity, empathy etc. from its devotees and replaces them with counterfeit "morals" like purity, chastity, obedience, etc. As I've said before... every time I've watched someone become more religiously TBM, they've become more and more mean spirited, rigid, judgemental, stand-off'ish etc. and less and less desirable as a human being.

In short, I left because I found through a lifetime of experience that Mormonism was the almost perfect embodiment of evil masquerading as good. As the branch prez. of a large branch that was constituted of mostly 1st gen converts, I got a front row seat to witnessing the ruinous effects that becoming TBM had on those that hadn't been raised in the faith. The most succinct expression of the opinion that came to hold is something that John Stuart Mill wrote about his father:

"As it was, his aversion to religion, in the sense usually attached to the term, was of the same kind as that of Lucretius; he regarded it with the feeling due not a mere mental delusion, but to a great moral evil. He looked upon it as the greatest enemy of morality; first by setting up factitious excellenciesbelief in creeds, devotional feelings, and ceremonies, not connected with the good of human kindand causing these to be accepted as substitutes for genuine virtues; but above all, by radically vitiating the standard of morals, making it consist in doing the will of a being, on whom it lavishes indeed all the phrases of adulation, but whom in sober truth it depicts as eminently hateful.

I have a hundred times heard him say that all ages and nations have represented their gods as wicked, in a constantly increasing progression, that mankind have gone on adding trait after trait till they reached the most perfect conception of wickedness which the human mind can devise, and have called this God, and prostrated themselves before it. This ne plus ultra of wickedness he considered to be embodied in what is commonly presented to mankind as the creed of Christianity."

I'm not so sure that this helps you, but I like to occasionally offer up that there are more important issues with Mormonism than it's phony foundational stories.

Nope not even once did i read anti sources...and i still dont...there isnt such a thing...my questions arose from legit whitewashed history...it was the left out details that finally did it...like the nauvoo expositor...all true but willy law was a servant of satan...yadda yadda...kirtland apostacy...why?...section 132 no one wants to talk about...virgins...then canoodle any married woman that will letcha...fanny was pregnant before the great keys were delivered...if there was honor in it why did joe pucker up and allow a young girl pregnant with his child be booted by his wife...oh yeah...no anti for me boy...you dont need lies to disprove a fraud...just wonder why joey needed a special house in nauvoo while everyone else lives in hovels...then the sorry prick puts a bar in the basement so he could stumble straight to bed instead of down the street at two in the morning...sorry bugger...and sorry folks that suckered for it

Sure. What did it for me:

Journal of Discourses

Book of Mormon, D&C, Pearl of Great Price

Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer W. Kimball

Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie

Wildly different accounts of JS's First Vision, written by him or his scribes

Contemporary accounts by LDS women and teens that JS tried (and failed) to seduce (Nancy Rigdon, Martha Brotherton, etc).

Letters, diaries, court testimonies, and personal accounts recorded by JS's "plural wives" about their sexual relationships with him

First Presidency letters and statements about blacks and the priesthood (especially compared with recent ones, where they lie and deny what they previously claimed as "eternal truth")

Old, unredacted editions of "Teachings of Joseph Smith"

Contemporary accounts of drinking, drugging, dancing, and other shenanigans in the early temples

There are plenty more, but these should be enough to get you started. Many are available online, or if you live in the Morridor hit up your local public library and/or local used bookstore. Occasionally, you can even pick up some of the damning older books at D.I. Pretty much anything written before the 1990s contains heaping helpings of racism, sexism, homophobia, and illogical, contradictory crap.

The stuff they wrote back in the day now sounds offensive, ignorant, and b@tsh!t crazy, so they're trying to whitewash and send down the rabbit hole stuff they once proclaimed from the pulpit as eternal, unchangeable truth straight from God. Seeing the evidence of this in print is more than enough to prove their truth claims demonstrably false.

I have a slightly different take here.

What others call "anti-mormon material" is simply a different perspective on the sources that come from the LDS church. And necessary to counter the answers that the church gives:

"It will all be sorted out in the next life"

"We just need to have faith"

"We don't know all the answers, but our leaders will not lead us astray"

The sources outside the church are important, because it gives the individual with sincere questions about the authenticity of the church important contexts to consider what is true....beyond platitudes and blind obedience/faith.

Some, like posters here, are able to come to their own conclusions with the information in the LDS scriptures and publicly-provided information--that is great--but I believe that many more individuals are stuck in the grip of the church mindset, despite their doubts. And it's simply too easy to put it all on faith.

I would have never known about the BOA translation hoax without outside sources, the so-called "anti-mormon material" because the church simply would not admit it and all the detail that goes along with it. Yet the outside source material is factual, indisputable, and important to know.

"I told you from the beginning there were many lies written about he church that make people into non believers"

These kind of responses accuse non believers/ex members of not having done their 'due diligence' and instead irresponsibly have lazily and simply, just believed anti Mormon liars.(not come across one yet, by the way).

It's a little insulting, isn't it?

This reminds me of one of the signs of a cult, where there are no good or valid reasons to leave the cult.


I once had a TBM, BIC lady of 60 plus years of Mormon loyalty say to me that the Looking inside a hat with a rock was so stupid and so obviously from antimormons and was astounded at why I even took any notice of that. She just prior had explained to me the Breastplate and Urim and Thummim!

Enough said perhaps?

However I did direct her to LDS.orgs and the Russel M Nelson talk to mission presidents ( where the rock and hat is revealed) and she nearly collapsed as she read it. It was a traumatic experience and not one I repeated further with her. I put aside my other few hundred problems and was grateful she seemingly survived that shock!

She didn't ask me anymore why I didn't get baptised after that.

She was the only Mormon who dared ask why and even insist I answer. She couldn't see any reason I should not join after two years of attendance. She was genuinely mystified. I think some others were afraid to ask (possibly knowing a few problems themselves).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2017 12:50PM by Zeezromp.

Well, I never joined TSCC, but I came close. I was raised on the premise that Mormons were noble people, suffering greatly in order to be true to their beloved faith. And I had many beloved close relatives who were Mormons. I was a lonely child, desperately wanting a loving and stable home life, and having exactly the opposite. My only haven was visiting my relatives, mostly (but not all) Mormon, who were kind enough to find excuses to have me come and stay with them as often as possible, knowing how horrible my parents' home was.

I wanted that happy-family fantasy so very much. My reasons for backing off had nothing to do with reading "anti" material.

The first one was the Book of Mormon itself. As I tried, several times, to read it, I could never get beyond the obvious flaw of the whole Indians-being-Jewish thing. Even that far back in my dim youth, we had heard about people coming to America via the Bering land bridge. (However that may have played out, precisely.)

And I was aware of the fad, back in Joseph's day, for theories about the Indians being a lost tribe of Israel. So all that I got from that whole thing was, "Ho hum, just another silly 19th Century fantasy."

And then, this supposedly great book, written under direct divine inspiration and assistance --- was such a miserably poorly written piece of work. I was already deeply into languages, then, and the BoM immediately seemed so blatantly a work written by someone who was faking a language style. And the lists of animals and plants, oh, my, I still can't comprehend how anyone can fall for the silliness.

Then, to top off my disaffection, came Prop 8, and my dear Mormon relatives (none of whom even lived in California) turned, right before my eyes, from being kind and loving people to being a rabidly angry, hate-filled mob, totally determined to follow the Mormon leaders and to listen to no other ideas, advice, or counsel. That example of mass control was a sickening and stunning event in my life.

Think of the bible as a "factory manual" for your life, and the BoM, BoA, D&C and other church documents as a set of "updated manuals" for your life (because mistakes had been made in reprints from the originals), and these updates are FACTORY UPDATED BY GOD, then imagine a set of manuals for your car, WRITTEN BY THE DESIGNER, you would have trouble maintaining your car because of all the contradictory information. Add to that JS, BY, and other "factory trained rep's" telling you to do things with your car that contradict what the manual says, and then *have later factory rep's tell you not to pay attention to what they said because they were "just speaking as shade tree mechanics"*, you'd be very confused; if you called the dealership they'd simply tell you "just keep driving, keep up your payments, and don't worry about what's under the hood."

No "anti-" information from the car dealership down the road needed.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22.

But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

Prophecy - The Coming of the Lord
President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. . . . it was the will of God that they should be ordained to the ministry and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh - even fifty six years should wind up the scene. (History of the Church, Vol. 2, page 182).
This prophecy was spoken by Joseph Smith in 1835, and recorded by Oliver Cowdery. The fifty-six years were passed by 1891.

Prophecy - David W. Patten to go on a mission
Verily, thus saith the Lord: It is wisdom in my servant David W. Patten, that he settle up all his business as soon as he possibly can, and make a disposition of his merchandise, that he may perform a mission unto me next spring, in company with others, even twelve including himself, to testify of my name and bear glad tidings unto the world. (Doctrine & Covenants 114:1)
This prophecy was made on April 17, 1838. David W. Patten died in October of 1838 and thus never went on a mission the following spring.

Prophecy - The United States Government to be overthrown in a few years
I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished (History of the Church, Vol. 5, page 394).
Joseph Smith made this prophecy in May 6, 1843. However, the United States Government did not redress any of the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri, and now over 150 years later, the U.S. Government still stands.

Prophecy -Finding Treasure in Salem, Massachusetts
This prophecy is recorded in Doctrine & Covenants Section 111. The introduction to this prophecy, found at the beginning of Section 111 states:
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Salem, Massachusetts, August 6, 1836. HC 2:465-466. At this time the leaders of the [LDS] Church were heavily in debt due to their labors in the ministry.

1. I, the Lord your God, am not displeased with your coming this journey, notwithstanding your follies.

2. I have much treasure in this city for you, for the benefit of Zion, and many people in this city, whom I will gather out in due time for the benefit of Zion, through your instrumentality.

3. Therefore, it is expedient that you should form acquaintance with men in this city, as you shall be led, and as it shall be given you.

4. And it shall come to pass in due time that I will give this city into your hands, that you shall have power over it, insomuch that they shall not discover your secret parts; and its wealth pertaining to gold and silver shall be yours.

5. Concern not yourselves about your debts, for I will give you power to pay them.

No treasure was ever discovered, nor did Salem ever fell into the hands of the Mormons.

Prophecy # 7 - Temple to be Built in Zion, Missouri

This prophecy comes directly from Doctrine & Covenants Section 84, the introduction of which states:
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, September 22 and 23, 1832. HC 1:286-295.

1. A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.

2. Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.

3. Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.

4. Verily, this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

5. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri due to persecution and a temple was never built on the "temple lot" in the lifetime of Joseph Smith or within the generation of his contemporaries.

Just to name a few.

If Moroni devoutly practiced the Mormon Gospel, why is he an angel now rather than a God? (Doc. & Cov. 132:17,37)

Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to Heaven?

Yes the entire leadership is enough to leave all on its own, the anti and uncovered stuff is just a bonus.

Yes!

I just convert the "anti-Mormon" article into a word file, delete the title and say you put together the sources quoted the file (which cite the Mormon source). Problem solved

I did.

Gosh you guys are great. Thanks for all the fantastic and useful comments. You've all given me a lot to think about :-) thank you

Easy!


Just Compare their CLAIMS with REALITY; not even counting long-ago history, just what's happening currently.

Yes. It's called realization and connecting the dots.

It was actually the church teachings make me question, not "anti" material. I never understood how black people were responsible for the sins of Cain while the doctrine teaches that others are not accountable for Adam's fall.

Sure it is. That's why (among othe reasons) I left.
It was the "Journal of Discourses" that did it for me.
I left before the internet, before the CES letter, before the Tanners had done much more than published a pamphlet or two (and I'd never heard of them).

What were once (and as you found out, still are) called "anti-mormon lies" are now being admitted by the church (well, somewhat -- they still lie about them even while admitting them).
Don't sweat your friend's ignorance and cognitive dissonance. She's still deep in the cult.
You're not.

--I disagree with the LDS church beliefs regarding the roles and rights of women,
--and their beliefs regarding the meaning of skin color,
--and their beliefs regarding homosexuality,
-- and a lot of other things, but those are the main ones.

So I just stick with these more contemporary topics instead of all the tons of historical and doctrinal issues. People seem to understand that those are somewhat irreconcilable differences.

My exit from MORmONISM was largely facilitated by several things.

One was going on a full time mission. As a person has to sell MORmON crap full time, it forces them to SMELL MORmON crap.

Next was the realization that I did NOT like the vast majority of MORmONS that I knew, including and ESPECIALLY my family members, including and especially the @$$ hole who was supposed to be my male parent. So WHY would I want to be around them for all of eternity ???

If there was any chance that I would have been able to keep my doubts in check, flaming @$$ clown PRofit Gordon BS Hinckley blew that deal wide open!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9q9XeZGT_s

I dealt with leadership over my gay/straight marriage. I knew before I married him and they set out to "make me" save him. I was a MESS emotionally. Suicidally depressed, which was dismissed by the bishop as PMS. My husband eventually left and I went through another living hell.

When I finally allowed myself to no longer believe, I started to heal. It was during that time, my therapist told me about this place. I was trying to figure out why I couldn't stop wearing my garments. I came here to read about that in about 2006. It was EYE OPENING. I had never read anything anti. I was shocked by the lack of respect of the lds leaders on this website and I finally realized it was their attitudes and teachings which had destroyed my hopes and dreams for my life, not the gays.

I've read very little printed or on-line anti-mormon stuff. I have read 'In Sacred Loneliness" which was written by an active mormon. It is SHOCKING.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2017 10:12AM by cl2.

Reading the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, Ensign, New Era, Journal of Discourses, History of the Church, and Mormon Doctrine could drive a person to believe the church is not true.

I left the church before the Internet was really available in my area, and did not have access to any stores that sold anti-Mormon books.

The biggest things that drove me out of the church were that the Book of Mormon promise did not work and I did not get an answer that the book was true when I prayed about it, and I came to the realization that Mormons are less than 1% of the world population. It is possible that the minority position on an intellectual question is correct, but it is less likely and should make a person double-check their work.

They have stock answers for every serious objection you bring up. They can also fall back on reciting their testimony if they're cornered. They always like to tell you how their church belief fulfills them as if they are more in touch with God than anyone who would be so foolish to leave.