I used to be best friends with a TBM woman who worked as a kindergarten teacher. Her TBM husband was a criminal justice professor at the local university. She shared a checking account with her husband, and she was not allowed to withdraw from it without her husband's permission. When she came to my yard sale, her husband would not let her buy anything. The husband claimed the family needed her money for savings for missions for the four kids as well as college savings. Even though she worked full-time, she was not allowed to touch a penny of her paycheck and lived like a pauper. I was a YSA at the time. It made me never want to get married.

I don't think it is very common, but I have seen it happen.

I suppose it depends on the husband. My TBM husband isn't like that at all. He trusts me to handle all the household accounts and bill paying and he and I both spend money how we see fit.

However, I do know of some Mormon husbands who are exactly as you describe. A husband who is like that might justify that sort of behavior with many of the church's teachings.

I couldn't live like that! Total obsession with money is not healthy, even if it's disguised as frugality.

I work as a domestic violence victim advocate. Abusers commonly control money like that. It's one of the ways they "force" the victim to stay with them, or, if they leave, to return to them. It wouldn't surprise me if this woman's life was very, very ugly behind closed doors.

I was very much a TBM and I can't imagine denying my wife access to money... We try to make purchases joint decisions and sometimes I buy stuff and other times she buys stuff. I can't imagine humiliating my wife like that.

My father is even more TBM than I ever was and my Mom controls the checkbook... They do make joint decisions, but it's my Mom who writes the checks, pays the bills and balances the accounts. If my Dad wants to buy something, he generally goes to her for cash or a check, because they don't believe in Checking account linked Debit cards.

I agree that it sounds like an abusive relationship, which isn't exclusive to Mormonism at all. This sounds like he's controlling her financially by not allowing her access to her own money.

I had a 20+ year marriage w/ my first wife...both very much TBM since birth. During our marriage my wife at the time spent all of the money in the checking account every month. There was always $700-1000 dollars that I could not account for. She had a habit of going out every evening and spending $30-60, but nothing to show for it. All of this was separate and apart from groceries, clothing, and necessities. If I did not pay the utilities and mortgage immediately upon getting paid - she would spend all of that money too. I would beg her to live by a budget. I literally had to borrow at times to pay the mortgage..her spending was so outrageous and uncontrolled. When I would try to reconcile the checking account, I would calmly ask her what this expenditure was for or that? The mere questioning would anger her. She didn't work, but she had full access to the checking account.

However, there was a 6 month period about the 15th year we were married, where she spent everything in the checking account w/ in the first week of the month and nothing to show for it, except new clothes for herself. Her closet was brimming w/ new clothes and shoes. I had had enough, so I opened up another checking account w/ my name only, and budgeted her $500 for spending money in the joint account. Basically it was just her account at that point. You would have thought that I had clubbed a baby seal on the steps of the SLC temple. She became unhinged. Said I was being exercising unrighteous dominion. Sigged her parents, the bishop, and the HT on me. They all took her side. I finally caved in after six months of pressure. These people didn't care that she depleted our checking account monthly and left us penniless from pay check to paycheck.

I had a different experience. I suppose a TBM husband could get away w/ it if the TBM wife will tolerate it. Doesn't seem right he should tell her what to do w/ the money she earns. On the other hand, my TBM wife was a crazy spender. Goes both ways I guess.

Your experience is very familiar to me. My wife cannot control her spending and refuses to account for any of it. We had a joint checking account for years, but it got to the point where I had to keep her away from our income stream or we would have gone bankrupt.

I did something similar to what you did and got a similar reaction: extreme anger. She almost won't talk to me anymore. I give her plenty for what she needs, but she is incensed that she can't spend any amount that she wants on whatever she wants.

My wife can't see anything wrong with spending more than I make. She won't cooperate on a budget, won't take care of the house and won't get a job.

I realize abusers will withhold access to money as a control tactic, but some of us have to do it in order to survive. Sometimes the witholder is the abuser, and sometimes the spender is the abuser.

What, are these women INFANTS? WTF?

I cannot IMAGINE being that flaky and irresponsible with money, especially if you have children.

This is a result of never having to be held financially responsible. If you're told all your life that your sole purpose in life is to be a wife and mother and nobody ever talks to you about how you will also be responsible for handling money to manage your family.... I mean, I just can't understand how these people think. THe only thing I can come up with is: Never held a job and been the sole person responsible for basic living expenses. Like, I've lived alone for a long time and even in my most irresponsible 20s, I would never have blown the rent money on shoes and nonsense. Because I have no safety net. If I don't come up with the rent, nobody else will and I will be living in a cardboard box under the freeway.

So I'm sorry for anyone who is married to someone who cannot comprehend consequences for their actions. That's just horrifying to me.

Bingo! When one partner has all the responsibility, a marriage can become controlling. What happens if a couple fails to pay tithing? Logic dictates that if they are both responsible for family finances, then both husband and wife should forfeit their temple recommends. But if this is a single income household, then only the husband loses his temple recommend. He suffers the scorn of the wife and bishop (and whoever they gossip to about his lack of faith) for restricting their "blessings."

Tithing compounds financial pressures on a marriage. That 10% tithing comes from somewhere in a budget. But 10% paid on gross earnings is much more than 10% less in the home when 50% taxes are taken into account. My wife could never grasp what tithing represented within our finances.

Moreover, she lives by "inspiration." If the Spirit told her to buy something, then she felt entitled (even obligated) to buy that article then and now. Any husband who objects must be "abusive." However, it was now my responsibility to find "more money" to pay for my wife's inspired purchases.

My wife was raised on welfare. She immediately spends all funds. First, funds are always scarce when living on social assistance. But when living on welfare the way to get "more money" is to spend all that you have. Then, you can go to the bishop or a social service agency and get money for your "needs." That doesn't happen when you work for a living.

My wife also chaffed against our savings, pensions, investments, insurance and similar financial obligations that I insisted would be met before discretionary expenses. Since our divorce we split these funds equally. (She felt entitled to them all.) She has now withdrawn and spent all of her portions. But that is her decision.

When I was the only one responsible for finances I became controlling. But nobody else would exercise control.

Eventually I had a "revelation" of my own. We would only pay tithing if funds were available. My wife could live as "inspired" as she wished. But if she spent the tithing money, it was spent. I no longer cared if I qualified for a temple recommend.

I only had to cut tithing once (for her to learn that I meant it). She was now an equal financial partner. What a relief!

Mormons can be controlling but they're not usually as bad as the one you describe.

My father was a lawyer who handled many divorces. He once told
me that the number one characteristic in the divorces he handled
was the husband complaining that the wife spent "his" money. If
the finances are "my money" and "your money" rather than "our
money," then the marriage is already in trouble.

I've shared this story before.

The EQ lesson was about proper LDS husband and wife roles, which included the wife deferring to her Priesthood Holder® husband. There was a lot of nodding. I asked, "What if it's my will, as the priesthood holder, that my wife should do whatever she wanted?" They looked at me like I was insane.

So I suspect there are more than a few Mormon husbands keeping very tight control of everything the helpmeet does. I've known some who were as controlling as polyg men, dictating hair, makeup and clothing, among other things.

The husband does have control issues and it is not restricted to men. I have a SIL who isn't all that good with money but insists on being in control of it. He lived like you describe your friend's life and it drove him crazy (especially when she indulged herself while insisting he go without).

Historically, men were expected to have control of their households - thus the title "head of the house". Men were allowed complete control over the household income including any the children brought in.

We expect in our 21st century civilization, we would have progressed to an extent where women are viewed and treated as equals. Mormonism does tend to be backward looking to the "good old days" when "men were men and women knew their place." Sounds like your friend was married to someone whose control issues were validated by a backward looking institution.

This is abuse and I would bet that he beats her as well. Hopefully, she can find her way out. Very sad.

In the case of my TBM parents, my dad brings in 100% of the income. My mother is the one who pays the bills, but also spends like crazy. She acts like it's her money only. She spoils herself rotten and won't even allow my dad to get a proper haircut at a barber. She cuts it for him and it doesn't look good. She gives him guilt for anything he buys for himself. I don't know why he has put up with it for 40 years now.

This is not limited to mormons. I've seen people of various faiths do this.

TSCC controls the men, and by virtue, the women.

She has (at least) two problems and one is bigger than the other.

I wasn't even allowed to get a job (or wear makeup, talk to anyone without him there to hear everything, receive gifts from my family, etc. etc.)

Used to be a man had power through controlling the money, and the woman had power by controlling the sex.

Now women commonly have control over both, which is considered equality.

Should be considered equally abusive to restrict money or sex.

Reminded me of this study that showed control over sexual issues.

http://www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/

SUMMARY: According to a 2010 national survey by the Centers for Disease Control and Department of Justice, in the last 12 months more men than women were victims of intimate partner physical violence and over 40% of severe physical violence was directed at men. Men were also more often the victim of psychological aggression and control over sexual or reproductive health. Despite this, few services are available to male victims of intimate partner violence.

I wondered why the link didn't ink to the data. It didn't take long to find out.

Here is the missing link:

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nisvs/specialreports.html

My husband's abusive ex wife handled the money in their household, even though he earned it. She bought him clothes from yard sales and spent a lot of cash on Swiss Colony, Disney plates, and Precious Moments figurines. She'd spend their money on trips to the temple, but not pay the mortgage. Sure enough, they had serious financial problems to include bankruptcy and foreclosure.

It took my husband five years to trust me with access to his account, which he did because he had to deploy to Iraq. However, I made our financial situation better, so he still lets me have access.

Insisting on having total control over all of the household money is definitely an abuse tactic.

It probably is common, as blood sucking LDS Inc is continually draining financial resources, money is tight, so men operate like that in the hope to get by. But GUESS WHAT ! Many MORmON women approve. They like men who are in a controlled and controlling mode that submission to MORmONISM creates. That can be demonstrated, because any woman (any Person) who had any sense would realize that LDS inc member ship is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE considering the tiny ACTUAL returns! and then CUT OFF LDS in reaction to that realization.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewcave/2014/06/23/giving-to-your-church-doesnt-count-jon-huntsman-snr-and-twitters-biz-stone-on-new-philanthropy/#62f9ec8916a4

any person, male or female who has any back bone and any sense of self does not need the LDS Inc (STUPID) Secret handshake club and MORmONS as their support group.

This is the behavior of a man who wants to keep a very, very tight hold of the purse strings. It is not about religion, but about control of the money. Women can do it also.

I was in banking when I got married, so it was easier for me to handle the money for the most part. I did that most of our lives, partially because someone had to do it when my husband traveled!
Not having enough money for every cost that came up was always a struggle. Part of the difficulty was all the lay-offs in the 70's. He was an engineer and they were pumping gas, IF they could get a job.

My wife's RM-ex was like that, though I don't think the behavior is unique to Mormons.

We've been married 4 years now, and she's just now getting to the point where she doesn't have a minor panic attack whenever spends over $100 at the grocery store. It took a lot of effort to convince her that, unlike ex, I trust her to spend our money responsibly.

When we were newly married, I had not yet learned to be assertive enough to shut the door on salesmen, so I took some assertiveness training classes, and learned to say "NO.

In the meantime, my husband told me to say exactly what babyselena's former best friend said. He didn't mind backing me up, until I could stand up for myself. I used to say,

"My husband does not allow me to buy anything from the door."
"My husband and I donate to The United Way."
"We donated at my husband's work."
"I don't think my husband would want me to."

I think babyselena's friend didn't want to buy anything at the garage sale, and was using her husband as an excuse, to not hurt anyone's feelings.

I've only seen this happen once, so not sure if its common,

SHE also told me she had a checking account that held her piano lesson money but that her husband made her dissolve that secret checking account. so no it was not an excuse thing.

I've been saying for a long time now that there are worse things in life than being single.

My nevermo husband does this to me except I don't have an account or bank access. I get given pocket money... :-(
He's very frugal. I guess I can't complain though, he's taking me to Disney Paris tomorrow for my birthday.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2017 06:37AM by pickleweed.

Pickleweed, you are an equal partner in your marriage, not a child to be given pocket money. At a minimum, you should be having input into the family's budgeting process.

My dad handled the finances in my family growing up. He didn't do my mom any favors by doing that. He died when she was in her 40s. She had no clue about budgeting, saving, investing, bill paying, and so on. It was a long, hard struggle for her to get up to speed on financial matters. She made some critical mistakes on investments that haunted her into her old age.

Women need to be financially literate. It is not a skill you can catch up on quickly. It begins NOW.

It happens the other way around too. Woman I tried to love/loved always kept her money secret-separate. It made visiting the drug/liquor store much more convenient, even when bills, pleasure, trips would be considered and it was impossible to make future plans, so, for that reason, and many others (abuse, lying, meanness), we're exxes. It's better to be single than to be around someone who hates-wastes much or considers themself first/only! For a period, she would work and I'd stay home and take care of the home-life-messes and dependants/mouths. She'd do the same thing as that man if I didn't have my own stash. It's always wise to have a hidden cache if the other partner (mentally, verbally, physically, psychologically, etc.) abuses you and you have to leave on your own. They would NEVER save. So much waste everywhere. Therefore, I can empathise with her. Control! Terrible. No fun. No future. No happiness. No more!