Perhaps my advice and comments in the original post by Anonymous123 may have seemed cold and unsympathetic. My assessment (okay, judgement) of the Anonymous123's actions are something that I should re-evaluate perhaps more objectively. Perhaps some of the other posts in that thread may offer more value in your case when it comes to how and why things are not completely acceptable, and what should be done. At the same time, my most objective assessment tells me that something that Anonymous123 is doing is fundamentally wrong and in need of immediate fixing.

I grew up in a seriously dysfunctional family that ended in divorce. I have only had two serious relationships in my life. The first one ended up in a complete disaster. The second one has been the best part of my life, going on 22 years now. I decided at a young age that no matter what, I would never allow my children to go through the serious traumas that I experienced as a child, or to be there to protect them if it happened anyway. I would rather die than to allow what happened to me, to happen to any child of mine. Then I naively got involved with a woman who was very much headed in a direction to destroy her own life and that of her and anyone she married, and children as well. The breakup was worse than some divorces, as I did what I felt was necessary to clean up my part of the mess. I could have survived the battle emotionally and psychologically, based on just my own damages. It nearly killed me psychologically and emotionally as I hired attorneys and exerted my will through legal means, that I might be harming her. That brought more pain than any harm I might experience to myself. There was a lot of secracy and dishonesty on her part. I was working in a large vacuum of information. All I knew for sure, is that things weren't what they appeared to be. I finally decided that if my legal actions (filing a paternity suit) led to her commiting suicide or losing what small chance she had for a happy marriage and family life, that would be preferrable to the destruction of an innocent child's life and happiness. If I were her child's father, the child's well being had to come first at whatever the cost might be to her or to myself. Try forgiving yourself for making that decision against someone you really love or loved. For me, it was easier in some respects because when searching my soul, I had been completely honest with her about everything.

In Anonymous 123's post in the other thread, all I hear is how resolved she is to get a better life and love for herself. If this husband of hers is as abusive as she claims he is, there is doubtless going to be parental alienation. This is a form of child abuse where one parent disparages the child's other parent in front of and to the child. Eventually, the child learns to gain favor with their parent by doing the same thing themselves against the other parent. The child may do this with or against either or both parents. It's a learned behavior that destroys the child's relationship with one or both parents and damages the child's psyche. My sister's ex-husband and their wealthy mormon family have quite successfully done this against my sister. Their kids have all grown up now. But the damage remains. The divorce courts recognize this form of child abuse if it is supported by enough evidence. Ironically, they often take the word of the kids.

With this kind of information, Anonymous123 has enough information to do one of two things. 1.) She can protect the kids from this by not taking part in this herself, and telling the courts and not the kids if he does it. Or... she can learn how to stand up for herself (requires honesty and courage), get to the core of the problem, eventually forgive her husband as he learns to respect her. Whether she divorces her husband and goes with the new lover or keeps her current marriage Anonymous123 needs to get honest with her husband right away. 2.) She can destroy her husband and damage the kids in the process by continuing to perpetuate a lie that only makes things worse. If she never loved her husband or is willing to risk further harm to her kids, this choice is obviously the best answer.

I just didn't see any empathy in Anonymous's post. It was all about herself and her own happiness. No matter how terrible her husband is, her post served to make a monster of him to get reassurance from people here that her lies and secret lover are okay. At least if she doesn't or never has loved her husband, she should at least have more concern in her post for the kids. I am sure that Anonymous123 has undergone a terrible amount of abuse. In my opinion, any man that assaults a woman forfeits his manhood. There are few worse things he can do. She should never have allowed things to get as bad as they are now. Not to blame her for his wrong-doing, his abusive actions (if they occurred) are terrible. A man should never abuse a woman. But things in Anonymous123's original post just don't completely add up. Until she can portray him as more than a monster, I think that no one on this board can help with any more than possibly supporting dysfunctional behavior.

To stay in an abusive relationship is asking for trouble. Once a victim realizes she is in one (or he,) that is the time to get out. Not at a "more convenient time" when it's economically more viable.

If someone is actually in danger you don't wait to exit. That is what made me question the veracity of anon123 - adding to that it did seem she was seeking validation of her cheating on her douche bag of a husband.

A failed marriage not only cheats the parents of their marital home. It cheats their children. I woke up this morning contemplating how my family was ripped apart when my parents divorced. And there was NO infidelity by either of them. They divorced based on irreconcilable differences. Had one of them been cheating on the other, it would only have made matters that much worse.

As for an abusive spouse, who is a danger and a menace, there are shelters for women and children to go to to escape that very thing, in order to find respite and a safe haven until they can get set up on their own in a new life.

If I were Anon123, that is what I would be doing. With or without the added benefit of her anonymous cheating boyfriend she met on RfM.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2017 11:21AM by Amyjo.

Anon 123 is asking for a whole lot of trouble. First off, if the husband is abusive, why the hell is she cheating on him because once he finds out, things are going to get ugly. Next, why the hell ain't she protecting the kids. If he is abusing her, there might be a change he is doing it to them as well. Lastly, if the boyfriend is here RfM, where is he and why ain't said anything in her defense in all of this. It is not like he has to reveal his username or anything to us especially since he can post anon. None of this is adding up to me.

My hunch is as good as anyone's, but here goes: Anon boyfriend is chicken sh*t for one. Or B) it's all a fiction. Or, C) she isn't the only one he's screwing around with. He doesn't want the other hens in the hen house to know who he's boinging.

But yeah, you're right, if the hubby is so messed up why the blarney does she stay in the effed up marriage since she's volunteering to put herself *and* her children at risk?

Plus, once he learns of the lovers triangle, that's often the catalyst that leads to homicides between partners and the third ring. Why put herself or her other partner in this position if there is a better way? Nor do I mean offing her hubby in the alternative.

It's a sick and twisted relationship, but one she is in voluntarily at this point. The ones who aren't? The children.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2017 07:10PM by Amyjo.

I am the original poster. TBH I don't care all that much about what people think of me here, but since I'm still going through this it helps me to write about it and process things and then I can think about what the best way to move forward is. I already went through the whole "she's just making all this up for attention thing" so that's not unexpected.. if you want to think that, go ahead it doesn't matter to me.

Like I said in my previous post, I no longer think in terms of my actions as "right or wrong" but rather, understanding my mindset as a human and others helps give me closure for my or anyone else's actions.

The things that I said my husband did are true, and my lawyer keeps a record of it where there is a paper trail. I don't however think of him as a monster. Lol my lawyer actually used that word in the original divorce filing and I asked him to remove it. In the same vein, through therapy I could see my husband had a tremendous amount of pressure on him once I became an apostate, and he was desperate to get me back in line. It doesn’t excuse his behavior towards me but helps me understand why he did what he did. Same thing with me.

To give some more background information and context about where I'm coming from, I was molested when I was 5, and growing up in the church I felt like I "owed" something back to the church because I never confessed (which is twisted the way they make you feel guilty about a sexual crime committed against you). I had this shameful secret, and I carried this heavy burden since that age. My mother expected me be perfect, and while my alcoholic bipolar brother got the royal treatment including thousands of dollars on designer wardrobe (now I can see she was desperate to help him, just didn't go about it the right way), I was forced to get my clothing from hand me downs and Good Will. I became clinically depressed and my grades tanked. With early morning seminary things got worse, and I became sick with severe anemia, to the point of having to pull over to the side of the rode because I was struggling to hold my hands on the steering wheel. I'd often fall asleep at the wheel and was jolted awake when my head would fall against my chest. My mom had me on several kind of medications from a psychologist, which gave me suicidal thoughts. I would have to clench my fists while driving because I was thinking about driving into oncoming traffic and ending my life. Of course, it stopped once I left my parents house and off of the meds. I cried myself to sleep every night for those years, wishing I didn't have to breathe because breathing was so exhausting. My juvenile therapist would lecture my mom, and I remember her saying if my mom didn't stop treating me the way she was, I would not be able to function as an independent adult. I suppose this is what I am continuing to struggle with to today. I've come a mighty long way from where I was, but I've learned to be kind to myself and where I can get myself in trouble is when I start to compare myself to other people and holding myself to unrealistic expectations. My adult therapist has helped me realize why I married my husband, which is because I (extend anyone else raised in abuse) was familiar with a certain dynamic and familiarity has a powerful comfort in it, in its way. The opposite is true for boys like my husband, who got away with abuse because he was a holy priesthood holder and accusations of abuse against him were lies, according to his parents.

The same thing goes with my lover and his current situation, which you can read about on my last, or second to last or both, I can't remember, entry.


It's been one hell of a struggle, maintaining my current life, I don't do it easily or without putting a lot of thought into it, weighing all the details of the pros and cons which you don't know about, listening to my attorney's counsel, getting a second opinion (which was a huge risk because my husband keeps financial trackers on me and can see everything I do financially, or used to, at this point I've been able to wrestle some back from him).

As it stands, during this time I've been working my butt off to be able to learn a skill to support myself financially. My attorney says it's going to be difficult on kids either way, but even more so if their standard of living goes way down. With several kids and no degree, this was not an easy task to accomplish, but I did it.

I don't expect to only get support and butterflies, unicorns and kisses here, but I put my story out because it creates a discussion, it makes people think about things.

Would you have me wear a scarlet A on my shirt for the rest of my life? Would you rethink calling my boyfriend a cowards when his wife wields a crowbar at him, threatens him with a stun gun, and knows she will try to acuse him of abuse? He knows she will not work, she will pay tithing on her support money.

Things are going to change soon, now that I will have the financial ability to it gives me courage and strength to do something many women in my situation are not able to.

It's possible that I don't really realize the danger I'm in, and I'm trying to acknowledge that. My husband has made progress with how he treats me but like I said, it's difficult for him now that I realize how I deserve to be treated. The danger for me is after I file, which is why I have to have things in place before I do. Which did take some time.


I hope my story makes people rethink judging people in situations similar to mine.

Is he at least laying the pipe down well?

Lol, yes he is. Or was. See my update below.

Actually that could be a whole other side topic (not with specifics of course) but since he wasn't raised in the church he has no hangups, and as a result has way more in his repertoire and a confidence that makes it hard to turn him down.

You said you don't care that much about what people think of you here?

Hmmmmm.

My only contribution would be to highly suggest that some kind of counseling is used to deal with all of the trauma in your life.No matter what happens, this will have a huge impact on the children. I'd suggest you get them into counseling also, as well as a good support system.

You definitely need a plan to secure your safety and the safety of your children while making a major life change, including good advice from an attorney. You need to know the laws in your state on divorce, also.It's clear you are working on that.

We are not there. We don't know the whole situation. Only you can make choices and decisions that are best for you and your children.

What people are suggesting is that you be very, very careful about who you involve in your life. Trusting the wrong person could be very dangerous. Some are giving you advice based on their own experiences hoping you can avoid some pit falls.

We don't change other people. It's really not possible, anyhow.

It appears that the major concern by those contributing to the comments has to do with some serious complications that can make the situation much, much worse.

Because people care, they also suggest that you get some kind of Domestic Abuse support for you and the children, also.
Use what is available to you in your area.

People are going to judge other people's situations based on what they know from their own experiences of those of friends and relatives. They are going to give advice.
It's wise to learn from others.

My best wishes to you and your children.

I'm not the kind of person who doubles-down on things, and it's because of my ability to take information and feedback and make a thought-out decision that I was able to think my way out of the church.


For that reason, I've put my lover in the friend zone for now, until I see critical steps that need to be taken. All visits are off, and I've discussed what else is off the table for now. I'm hoping this reduces my stress and allows me to focus better on the things I need to do.


Will update with what happens next. I still need to navigate through a plan, actually 3, best, middle, and worst case scenarios.

Anonymous123

My view: this is a rational decision, geared for the best outcome. This is one time when being rational, logical and unemotional (as much as possible) will help you navigate your situation.

I've actually called it off before, maybe 2 or 3 times but it hasn't worked because it was cold turkey and I missed him too much. At least this way we can still communicate with each other, although in a limited way. He seems fairly upset at the moment but will accept it. It actually hurts to see him like this.. going through all the things he's done so far.. he apologizes to me for not being able to do things sooner..


Need to stay strong :'} But it's true, even though our communications were very secure they still put myself and him at risk of physical danger.

Anonymous123

I think it all boils down to being "SMART" about everything! Get legal advice also!! No mess-ups! :-)

Yes, you're right.

I've been working with an attorney for a few years now. He was the one who advised me to develop a career because of the amount of debt.

all the best to you! May your life just get better and better.

He says he is crushed :-( But determined to do what he needs to do.

I'm pretty upset too but I'll get over it and use my energy to work on my things.

Good, good, that's very good.

My primary concern is for your safety and that of your children. My secondary concern is that you seem to have been building a new relationship with a guy who is in as fucked-up a situation as you are in. So I think it's very, very wise to put that on the back burner for now. I think you will need each other's friendship, but I have to warn you of something.

Two codependents don't make a right.

Sure, the support is awesome and is what you both need right now. In my observations, there is nothing harder on people (aside from the death of a child) than divorce. So I think it's absolutely in your best interests, as well as your children's, to keep the new guy at a distance for now. Get out, get through the divorce, get some counseling -- for the abuse you suffered as a child and as an adult. THEN see if you're both emotionally healthy enough to fire that relationship back up.

It's interesting you should mention two-codependents and what that looks like. It's been something I've been thinking about for a while now, and while I've every so often been frustrated by his white gloves approach with the situation there,it's easy to forget how menacing an angry, yelling/screaming unhinged person is. For that reason both he and I have had to adapt our behaviors around our better halves. Anyone familiar with abusive relationships knows it's a minefield to navigate a dynamic that reduces escalations. And so coming out of these so-called marriages I like to relate to a starved animal. Immediately after its been rescued it is still week and subdued. But after it has been nursed back to health the original personality shines through, hopefully, and they may be rambunctious, fiesty, or anything else.

But I don't think we are that far gone. When we are together it's so easy, our guard comes down and we can focus on each other. But I think you're right, we still need to learn how to function with our newfound independence. I think he would be open to doing therapy together, that would probably help us (with a good therapist).

Now I've been dealing with him begging me to talk on the phone (that was something I cut off yesterday). It's hard for me to deny him but he can still write to me as a friend. He is about to file his papers after his wife threw him out of the house again last night after finding out he secretly saved money to pay off taxes (she thinks he should pay tithing and just have faith and HF will provide..).

Ugh. Just ugh. Several months of hell in front of me.

I think couples therapy once your divorces are finalized would be a terrific idea. And I also think you are in for more than a few months of hell. Be safe. Take care of yourself. Get into individual counseling now -- as a domestic abuse victim, you will need some help getting your head screwed back on nice and straight (ask me how I know ;>)).

As I read these kind of threads, and see train wrecks of marriages in guys at work and among relatives, I have to laugh at the whole concept of marriage.

Like making promises affects anything.

We promise to love each other and then fight and abuse.

We promise to stay together for richer or poorer, but most divorces are about money.

We promise to not have sex with others, and then have affairs.

And then we get divorced, and make the same promises again, because it will surely be different next time.

The whole marriage industry is nothing but fantasy, just like religion.

I've heard it said that a good person doesn't need to make promises, and a bad person won't keep them.

Free Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The whole marriage industry is nothing but
> fantasy, just like religion.

It's been said about second marriages, but it applies to first ones, too:

Marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
Divorce is the triumph of experience over hope.

That said...I've been married 25 years, neither of us have "cheated," and I plan on being together at least another 25 years.
Maybe I just got lucky. Maybe we both did.
At any rate, I won't "judge" the OP. It's her life, and I can't possibly know her experiences. I wish her all the best.

Anon 123, I have never cheated. Not ever, even before marriage.

That said, my reading of your original post was one of a post that I believed to have had a dual purpose. I thought you wanted to anonymously affirm your feelings to your lover, and wanted to celebrate your new-found sense of joy.

The thread quickly became a largely black and white battle of right vs. wrong, a plethora of judgement. I now better understand why so many read different dangers.

I read that your soon-to-be-ex had battered you, and from my position, once is once too many. It speaks to a lack of physical control when angered or verbally unable to meet a challenge from a partner. It comes from a losing position, from internal weakness.

If true that he battered you in the past, and you think that you can simply walk away from one so easily inflamed, I hope you know not to take your security for granted, or that of your children. It sounds like you have carefully dealt yourself the winning hand against someone who will not respond lightly to losing.

I *really* don't care about the affair. Your future ex divorced you the second he violated your physical security, if in fact he did. I feel this statement to be true whether the violator is male or female. Everyone has a right to feel safe in their own homes, else it is not "home," and he or she should immediately start trying to find a new one. Whatever an abused person must do to gain that security is "right" in my book. - Life, liberty... does not include being hit, or operating under that threat of violence.

What several responders failed to take into account in abused situations, is that the abused has been silenced. Truth likely brought on the abuse, and abusers make clear that speaking it might well carry an unreasonable price. They don't want it, and are willing to use force to compel their victims to only say what they want to hear.

-Like aping back to TSCC the thoughts and questions they tell us are acceptable to them.

I wish you well, and ask that you not take anything for granted.

Amazing tale....

Surprised so many here fell for it.

I like ur show.

If an angel with a flaming sword threatens your life, you may have no choice but to have an affair.

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If an angel with a flaming sword threatens your
> life, you may have no choice but to have an
> affair.

:D :D :D

If you haven't already, get "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Dr. Patricia Evans and "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry, Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft. They're essential and got me through my ordeal.

Also: thehotline.org

No judgment here; if you have support people who can help you get through the several months of hell ahead, let them be supportive in whatever way helps you.

If you feel at all safe in doing so, get yourself and the kids out of the house as often as you can manage: parks, libraries, malls, whatever. It will do all of you good to be in a (comparatively) safe space and do something relaxing or fun. In an abusive relationship, the home is the combat zone, the unsafe place. The abused partner and children suffer from chronic stress (and can develop PTSD) from living and sleeping in a place where they can be attacked at any time. You need to be in a safe space periodically; I found this one of the most helpful things I could do.
Check in with yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually several times a day; ask yourself how you are feeling in each of these areas. Abuse targets develop feelings of numbness and the ability to zone out in order to deal with trauma, stress, and a constant state of hyper-alertness. The check-in turned out to be a valuable tool once I started using it consistently.
Take care and keep us posted.

Thank you. You just described my situation. It is very stressful to me to sleep in my own bed, and so I sleep elsewhere as often as I can get away with it. Stress definitely leaks out in other ways and affects the kids. I'll have to make a concerted effort to get out more although it's very difficult for me. My littlest has become very clingy to me, won't go to my husband, and I could go on but it's obvious that the house is not a good place for me or the kids.