What Joe was thinking in pulling off the crime of the century I think has been hashed out well. But how did he feel toward his fellow humans at the time? Love? Compassion? Loyalty? Anything that could be construed as divine? His words for his virtual goddaughter Nancy Rigdon notwithstanding. Inquiring minds want to know.

I think that Joseph saw people as marks. It's possible that he felt some degree of affection for people who consistently met his needs or fed his ego. But ultimately, it was all about him. I think he lacked anything resembling human empathy.

I suppose there are any number of 19th century things that could have broken him. Certainly Joe senior's business disaster and subsequent impoverishment could have made getting even a "no holds barred" contest. Some people take hardship as wisdom. Others take it as a hurt. I think Joe never saw past the hurt, made it about himself, and the rest is history. I like to think that in alternative universe, he would have done something constructive with his talents.

Maybe we shouldn't blame Joe for events that transpired after that fine day in June of 1844. But when a boulder is rocked free to roll down a mountain, it's a little hard to ignore the rock-pushing doofus once you've been crushed.

He was certainly a narcissist... and a liar, and two-faced, and full of himself, like a snake eating it's tale.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think that Joseph saw people as marks. It's
> possible that he felt some degree of affection for
> people who consistently met his needs or fed his
> ego. But ultimately, it was all about him. I think
> he lacked anything resembling human empathy.


His ego was bigger than his love for divine truth- that's for sure.

OP- "... never saw past the hurt" - on to something there.

Boner- 'greater control' - you are on a roll...

"And again, it is meet that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., should have a house built, in which to live and translate."

That was probably the actual FIRST VISION - in hindsight, 20/20!

Thanks for the quote baura- puts it all into perspective.

Heretic 2- spot on."He... couldn't... feel empathy or compassion. ... he did not feel bad about using and abusing other people. Pretty ironic that a preacher of morality didn't seem to have a conscience, and just had to try to pretend like he had one.


No conscious! No balls. No heart.

We know from his mother, Lucy Mack, that Joseph had a vivid imagination. We also know from his own writings that he was a god-seeker. From others, we know that he was a sociopath scamming people by money digging and divining.

Eventually, Joseph became a full-blown megalomaniac making even more outrageous claims and exerting greater control over his followers. The more outrageous his boasts, the tighter his inner circle seemed to be. Polygamy with his close associates' wives was the final outrage

During the Nauvoo era, let by William Law, Smith's megalomania finally started catching up to him. His close circle of friends began deserting him. Many declared him a fallen prophet.

My speculation is that had he not been murdered, Mormonism would have slowly dissolved into another nameless cult-utopia from the 19th Century American Second Great Awakening.

Brigham Young and his cronies gets the credit for creating the martyrdom myth with its associated--he sealed his testimony with his own blood. Thus, Joseph Smith, the prophet legend, was born.
Brigham Young's Boner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2017 07:44PM by BYU Boner.

I can't help but notice that dear old Lucy Mack did nothing to nip his deception in the bud. Could it be that his egregious disrespect for women came from observing his mother in action? She was happy to put up with Joe senior's lies as well as his own.

He must have been moderately successful, no, very successful, other I'm sure he would skedaddled off to the wild.

Of course, when he *did*, he came back; he just couldn't help himself--a revelation for a house? Sure, why not?

"And again, it is meet that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., should have a house built, in which to live and translate."

I think Joe thought he was a prophet of God. I think his
narcissism allowed him to lie to promote his position as prophet
of God (all for a good cause). I believe it was Faun Brodie who
said, "Joseph had two overriding ambitions, one was to obey God
and the other was to have a good time. He solved his problem by
having God command him to have a good time."

Looking at the character of Joseph Smith has helped me make sense of the phenomenon of pathological liars, people who believe their own lies. It seems so preposterous: You know it's a lie, you told it. People get caught up in their own web of lies. Joseph is the ultimate example of being encircled by the chains of hell.

But as I mentioned earlier, that's Joe's business. He was but a fool. The fraudsters that came after him have no such excuse.

Add having a good time and the trait of charisma to the total package, and you have JS.

I think he was embarrassed, and sick and tired of being poor. He conjured up some ways to make his life better. Never mind it was at the expense of others. I suspect he viewed his victims as stupid. He had no problem taking things away from people he viewed as stupid. He viewed women as objects for his use.

His actions show this was his thinking. He forgot one tiny detail. That was, that others weren't willing to go along with his crap. They came together and did away with him.

Too bad old Briggy was in the picture, and more than happy to run with the ball. BY was pure evil.

I have come to think that he was a bit of a sociopath. He just couldn't really feel empathy or compassion. So he did not feel bad about using and abusing other people. Pretty ironic that a preacher of morality didn't seem to have a conscience, and just had to try to pretend like he had one.

What was Smith thinking? What was he feeling?

These may be the wrong kind of questions to ask.

There is considerable evidence that Smith had narcissitic personality disorder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder


The above article states:

"According to the DSM-5, individuals with NPD have most or all of the following symptoms, typically without commensurate qualities or accomplishments:


1. Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from others.

2. Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.

3. Self-perception of being unique, superior and associated with high-status people and institutions

4. Needing constant admiration from others

5. Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others

6. Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain

7.Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs

8. Intensely envious of others and the belief that others are equally envious of them

9. Pompous and arrogant demeanor"



Folks who have NPD do not have the same experience of empathy (which may or may not be the same as 'sympathy/compassion' in some instances) or conscience as the majority of people.

Putting it simply, he did not feel or think as most do.

Everything BY Boner said plus JS joined the family business. He came from a family of grifters. And they weren't even good at it! The Kirkland Safety Society was formed during the national banking panic of 1836, operated under an illegal charter, and was grossly under capitalized. It had wildcat written all over it. What could possibly go wrong?!?! Banks at that time printed their own currency. How could JS resist? The JS murder was a major career boost for BY. Religions are so much easier to sell when the founder is a martyr instead of a convicted felon. Smith's new religion was never meant to be anything more than a con.

I wouldn't call it the crime of the century.

Con artist/flim flam man/grifter was a fairly common occupation in that era.

I'd nominate the "Confederate States of America" insurrection for crime of the 19th Century.

Maybe Brigham was lucky the "War of Northern Aggression" kept the government busy while he built his empire. He's lucky those 55 wives didn't kill him. Although it appears one of them actually did. All those dead injuns, but it wasn't them he had to worry about.