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Posted by: notmonotloggedin ( )
Date: January 11, 2017 11:59AM

I understand its perceived significance in that a TBM acknowledges the harsh treatment of those expressing doubt, however the glaring obviousness-(at least what should be to everyone on this board)- is that it really DOESN'T MATTER that those with questions have no where to go. In a way, this really isn't even true. Many many years ago as a nevermo BYU student engaged to an RM TBM from a huge multi-generational TBM family I had questions of my own. While no TBM future family member would (or could) answer the questions I had, they did make suggestions on who I could speak to that would answer my questions (so and so's uncle is a stake president ...she could talk to him-yada yada). These suggestions were not made directly to me of course since, once they realized that my RM fiance was unable to answer my queries they were of course, terrified to address me on the subject. Rather, they engaged in furtive, hushed conversations with my future husband in an attempt to try to "fix" what was wrong with me.

I did, in fact, seek out George Pace-much esteemed BYU religion professor andGospel Doctrine teacher extraordinaire who, I was told, would be able to answer all of my questions. Well the most telling "answer" I got from "Brother George" to questions ranging from why JS married other men's wives to why was he a master mason was not those he gave verbally but the sudden loss of blood from his face and the change in his demeanor when I raised the Mason question. The moment was epiphanic but no less so when, some time later when TBM future MIL asked t,hem TBM fiance, "did notmo get her questions answered." Fiance retorted, "there are no answers to the questions she has."

And so, while I suppose it is good that some Mormons recognize the disingenuousness of their treatment of doubters, the reality is that their "gospel" is a lie. Answering someone's honest questions in a kind, compassionate and patient manner with lies is just, more of the same.

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Posted by: Pariah ( )
Date: January 11, 2017 06:47PM

I, too, sought the counsel of the esteemed George Pace, when I was in a dilemma, trying to decide which proposal of marriage to accept. I loved both men, but I loved one more. The man I loved the most was questioning the church, and had refused to go on a mission, choosing a university scholarship, instead. He decided along the way that he didn't want children. The other man I had met at BYU, and he was secure in his job, and wanted children right away. He, also, had avoided a mission, in order to establish a career.

George Pace told me he was "impressed" by the Lord to tell me I should marry neither one. He said that it was impossible to love two men at once, so I didn't love either one. Bla-bla. He had a way about him, to make one think that every word that came out of his mouth was from God. He made me feel that his advice was personal, and unique to me.

The bottom line was, the same garbage that I had been taught since Primary:

"You must marry a returned missionary."
"You must get married in the temple."

Pace said something like, "I'm impressed that Bill_______ and you have a very deep connection--maybe from the pre-existence. Don't get engaged. Give Bill a chance."

Bill had been pursuing me quite aggressively, and that was what Pace saw. Bill was a RM, the right age, was handsome and charismatic, and very religious. He had all the right credentials. George Pace was our university institute director, and he had been advising all the young single people to adhere to "The List."

Like an idiot, I turned down both of those lovely young men, and got engaged to Bill____, whom I barely knew, and we were married in the temple a few months later. I didn't meet his parents and siblings until after we were married, because his father was a mission president in a far-away country. As soon as I met Bill's sister, she told me that Bill was mean, and that he had beaten her so often and so badly, that she had to be removed from their home. (Bill was needed for physical labor in the family business.) After a year of terrible beatings, I escaped, and divorced him. I was almost choked to death. I have permanent injuries and PTSD.

Beware of men who claim to speak for God. Beware of a cult that claims to be ruled by prophets of God.

Follow your heart!!!

(Sorry, that name, George Pace, was a trigger for another PTSD rant!)

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Posted by: Breeze ( )
Date: January 11, 2017 07:01PM

That letter is BS!

The greatest gift the Mormons could give their loved ones is the gift of love! We have a RIGHT to worship any way we want. We deserve LOVE, regardless of what and how we worship. Women, gays, apostates, atheists, people of other beliefs and cultures--all deserve love!

We don't need to be corralled back into the fold, and kept there to be tortured and used and abused further. This is not a loving act. Set us free!

We apostates are the ones with the Truth! Mormonism is not Truth.

This letter makes me angry. Our faith is not "shaken." We are not spiritually sick or lame or handicapped. The Mormons are the sick-o's.

All we apostates want is common courtesy, and our human rights. I can't imagine having to plead for what every human being ought to be entitled to.

We ex-Mormons do not need to be fixed!

The two examples above are what happens when we trust Mormon fake authorities, when we trust leaders who care only about the organization and its rules. Yes, the Mormon cult doesn't care about us, and deep down we can sense that.

Congratulations to all who follow their heart! That makes us healthy and whole--not broken.

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Posted by: notmonotloggedin ( )
Date: January 11, 2017 10:34PM

Even though I was a student in his class and he had never met my fiance, he advised me that I should immediately break off our engagement. His advice was, of course because I was not Mormon and my fiance was a recently returned missionary. Pace said that my fiance "could never be happy with me" because of what he knew [about Mormonism]. 30+ years later DH is a happy exmo and we are still married.


Sorry I brought up bad memories for you-what a jerk that man was.

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Posted by: ericka ( )
Date: January 11, 2017 07:05PM

I was in a class with GP. He was a student just like I was in this class.

He struck me as arrogant and so full of himself that I wouldn't have considered asking his opinion of anything. At the time I didn't realize he was supposed to be someone "special".He was basically stalking me and asking me a ton of questions about my father. Questions he didn't like the answers to. My father wasn't a good father. That made my story unusable for ole George.I found out later(not from him) he was writing a book about how wonderful fathers are. Made me want to puke.

My class lasted for two weeks. George was there every day in all his glory. Besides the instructor, he was the only other male in the class. I suspect that made him feel extra warm and fuzzy. Ugh. I just didn't like the guy.

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Posted by: want2bx ( )
Date: January 11, 2017 07:12PM

Sam will probably soon learn that he's wasting his time and his breath.

The reason that Mormon leaders don't go after "the one" or create safe spaces for those who are doubting to ask questions and talk about their doubts is because the church doesn't have good answers.

The bottom line is that in the Mormon church there is only room for true believers or those who are good at pretending to be true believers. That's it.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 11, 2017 08:26PM

This is like someone trying to coax people out of their life rafts and back onto the Titanic.

Take your rose colored glasses off Sam and figure it out. The questions don't have satisfactory answers. You have to face the real facts and not be the cheerleader trying to get people to cling to the fuzzies.

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Posted by: so sayeth ( )
Date: January 11, 2017 09:17PM

Sam wrote:

"We have the truth! We are acting like we don’t."

____________

Sam, they are not "acting." Do you think for one second that of they had solid, faith-affirming answers, that they would withhold them?

You have had access to the best answers they have. It is what it is. You are tilting at windmills.

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