Placing my bet that this topic will merit its very own "essay".

"How much do top Mormon leaders make? Leaked pay stubs may surprise you."
By PEGGY FLETCHER STACk
The Salt Lake Tribune
9 January 2017
**For entire article, see: http://www.sltrib.com/news/4800350-155/how-much-do-top-mormon-leaders?page=2

"All general authorities earn the same 'living allowance,' spokesman says after purported pay stubs show up online. . . . "



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2017 02:02AM by steve benson.

But they are more than handsomely remunerated. They have to give all their stuff to the church, and the church arranges a tax-free benefits package that includes many perks--nice housing, leased cars, free tuition for children, free transport, etc. And don't forget rock star status. I'm sure that the perks are worth a couple hundred thousand alone. And again, because of the way their income is arranged, it is likely all tax free.

There are all kinds of loopholes for religious leaders. From the IRS:

A minister's housing allowance (sometimes called a parsonage allowance or a rental allowance) is excludable from gross income for income tax purposes but not for self-employment tax purposes.
If you receive as part of your salary (for services as a minister) an amount officially designated (in advance of payment) as a housing allowance, and the amount isn’t more than reasonable pay for your services, you can exclude from gross income the lesser of the following amounts:
the amount officially designated (in advance of payment) as a housing allowance;
the amount actually used to provide or rent a home; or
the fair market rental value of the home (including furnishings, utilities, garage, etc.).
The payments officially designated as a housing allowance must be used in the year received.
If your congregation furnishes housing in kind as pay for your services as a minister instead of a housing allowance, you may exclude the fair market rental value of the housing from income...

All the housing, tax paperwork, and stuff, would all be worked out through the church's office of general counsel in harmony with their bean counters, so that it would be transparent to the general authority himself and satisfy the IRS well in advance. On top of that, the church can arrange for the GA's to each receive a certain income within a legal atmosphere that appears as if they receive no actual salary at all, which is what I'm sure they do. In a way, they old guys have earned it. They have, after all, turned over all their properties and investments to the church, and signed all kinds of non-disclosure paperwork. Having done so, they are in debt up to their balding pates, and now would have nothing, if not for the church.

"They have, after all, turned over all their properties and investments to the church, and signed all kinds of non-disclosure paperwork. Having done so, they are in debt up to their balding pates, and now would have nothing, if not for the church."

Going to call BS on that.

Thanks to "Steveinutah" who posted this on the sltrib.com article comments is proof that these men have expensive homes in Wasatch Co., the homes are in the names of their trust and/or their wife's trust but the property tax bill is sent to the church office building...

Go to this link:
http://www.wasatch.utah.gov/Services/Property-Tax-Lookup/Current-Year-Property-Tax-Lookup

Enter these parcel numbers and "View Details"
Monson: 00-0001-3776
Bednar: 00-0020-5898
Holland: 00-0020-2716
Uchtdorf: 00-0020-9118

....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2017 11:05AM by abby.

Wow! So the base pay for all General Authorities in 2014 was over $120,000.00. And we have to assume that since there is a base pay, that it only goes up from there and that some General Authorities get even more than that.

I am an Engineer with a Master's degree in business (an MBA), and two under-graduate degrees in the sciences. The value of my total annual compensation package including salary, stock grants, medical and dental benefits, bonuses, and all other forms of compensation comes to significantly less than that amount. In addition, I know that many people make far less than I do (not a statement of pride, just providing context).

So how in the world can it be said that General Authorities only get a 'sripend'? A stipend, really? They get far more than a majority of educated, gainfully employed people get paid. And why do they call it a living 'allowence'? Answer: they don't have to pay tithing on it. They probably don't even have to pay income taxes on it. So that $120,000.00 translates to what us taxpayers would call over $200,000.00, if only they had to pay taxes on it. If these amounts are only stipends, how much do they really think they are worth, compared to the rest of us? Everything they've told us about the pay of church leaders are just lies. The church claims that these Bozo's would make more money working jobs, is laughable. To make an equivalent salary working in a free market, in most cases you need to be either an executive at a large company, or to do dangerous work. Most GAs would be lucky to find any job at all. It's no wonder why they're willing to lie so badly to the rest of us. This evidence should forever change the opinions of most church members, about what their church really represents. More lies to get your money away from you and to transfer your wealth to them. Hell no they don't sell their tokens for money... just their souls and their integrity.

... and the above discussed amounts don't even include the forgivable loans. The church has a practice of loaning large amounts of money (millions of dollars), to GAs with an understanding that the money never has to be paid back as long as the GA doesn't apostacise. Loans are not taxable. So the taxes on that income from those 'loans' do not become taxable until the GA dies. Dead men generally don't pay taxes. By loaning the money to the GA from a church-owned business, the church can write off the forgiven loans as a deduction against otherwise taxable money. So the IRS gets cheated both ways by the church and by the GA. Since there was never an intent by the church to make the GA repay the loan, the issuance of the loan in this case is fraudulant, but nearly impossible to prove. So... it's all about the money.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2017 11:51PM by azsteve.

Exactly...120K equals 200K for us tax payers. Unbelievable that these bozos are taking tithing money from poor cult-indoctrinated church members. Excellent analysis here AZSTEVE.

$120k x 70 = $8.4 million.

There go the candy bars....

140...aren't there 2 quorums of 70?

Damning, if one really stops to think about it!!!! (It actually doesn't require that much thought.)

From the linked article in the Salt Lake Trib:

No funds for this "living allowance," the
spokesman said, "come from the tithing of
church members but instead from proceeds
of the church's financial investments."

Where, pray tell, did TSCC get it's pool of money with which to invest?

;-)

Is the Mormon church a religion or a profit-making business? Just because the IRS allows them to be legally classified as both, doesn't mean it's right. Businesses are supposed to be financially loyal to the stockholders who invest their own money in exchange for longer-term profits. Instead of doing business that way, the church uses its businesses to write-off the expenses of paying church leaders money that the business gets nothing in return for, to the actual business. It's similar to deluting a company's stock value to give employees off-the-books stock incentives. The church may own the stock and choose to look the other way on these incestuous, self-serving transactions. But this isn't how business is supposed to be done. Do the Articles of Incorporation disclose these relationships and abuse of the applicable state laws? Do the church businessee follow FASB (Financial Accounting Standards Board) rules? Probably not. Church lawyers probably have covered their asses legally. But that doesn't mean that things won't have to change if this mess is dragged out of the closet and in to public view, where the public and law makers can examine it up close.

I think the second quorum of 70 is not permanent, so they probably don't get the exact same deal.

Consider this...an apostle or seventy called today at age 65, lives for another 25 years, and gets a guaranteed 6 figure income, increased annually until the day he dies (This amounts to a NPV of over $3M @ 3% for those statisticians out there). That's one hell of a retirement package. Add into the fact that the Apostles get that $1M signing bonus and you can really ton away a lot of cash to pass on to your heirs. Not a bad career path for an educator. Plus, you get to travel and be treated as infallible Rock Star while you fill your depends.

And the janitors!

"[Leaked]: Q15 and 1Q70 pay information. . . .

"Here are MormonLeaks™ (formerly MormonWikiLeaks) FOUR leaks for 1/9/17:

"Leak #1 1/9/17. Quorum of the Twelve Apostle’s pay (He’s in First Presidency now). Paystubs for Henry B. Eyring (SSN redacted) . http://docdro.id/GEbupXj

"Leak #2 1/9/17. Memo indicating an increase in the Living Allowance for a member of the First Quroum of 70 . http://docdro.id/JlekSUK

"Leak #3 1/9/17. Executive council meeting minutes, AND some information about Dallin H. Oaks’ daily schedule. http://docdro.id/LaF5sVU

"Leak #4 1/9/17. Temple Facilities and Sites Committee Meeting minutes. http://docdro.id/7U5qvXl . . .

"For your viewing ease:

"Item #1

@From the first paystub, Henry Eyring is on a 2 week schedule. The pay stub is 7/22/00-8/4/00. He was an ordinary member of the Q12 at the time (not a counselor in FP). He earned $3,096.15. Multiplied by 26 his 2000 income was $80,500. (Of course, the last stub showed his YTD income as $83,132.75, and this one was dated 11/25-00-12/08/00. A little more math leads to an annual income of $90,060.

"Edit: According to CPI Inflation calculator, $90,060 in 2000 has 2016 purchasing power of $126.227.

"His net pay for the first stub was $1,288.35. Annually, this works out to $33,497. Someone else will have to chime in on the distinctions between Child Allowance, Living Allowance, and Parsonage, which are the three items that make up his gross pay on this stub.


"Item #2

"A letter from the presiding bishopric to Elder Bruce Porter of the 1Q70, dated January 2, 2014, re:"living allowance increase for 2014". It was raised for the year 2014 from $116,400 to $120,000. More damning, in my opinion, is that the secretary to the presiding bishopric clearly refers to paychecks and pay periods. He also notes that there are medical benefits in addition to the compensation.

"Edit: According to CPI Inflation calculator, $120,000 in 2014 has 2016 purchasing power of $122,240.


"Item #3

-"For anyone who left the church because it felt bureaucratic and there were too many damn meetings, this set of papers confirms that. Things that stood out to me:

-"'There was considerable discussion of how to encourage missionaries to be obedient, the desirability of sending a problem missionary home rather than having him influence many other missionaries, and having stake presidents take a sense of responsibility for sending out missionaries who have problems.'"

-"'Elder Jensen reviewed a proposed addition to the [temple] recommend questions to help priesthood leaders identify and help members who are struggling with pornography.'"

-"'A general recommendation to provide MTC presidents and visitors' center directors with the same benefits as mission presidents was not approved.'"

-"'It was noted that the issue of name tags for stake missionaries needs to be addressed if stake missions are discontinued.'" Micromanagement much?

-"Dallin Oaks flew first class in a 757 for $811 in January 2001.


"Item #4

"So much boring minutiae. Minutes from Temple Facilities and Sites Committee, dated January 9, 2003. Only one quote caught my eye: 'It has been noticed that the disrespect for the temple and grounds is increasing at the Salt Lake Temple. Children are knocking on doors, playing on steps, etc. It is a great privelage [sic] to be able to go up and touch the temple. This privelege [sic, with a different misspelling] might be taken away if there isn't a better control of the facilities. Bro. Olsen was given the assignment to post couples at the bottom of the stairs to keep people reverent around the temple.'"

(The above provided by non-MormonLeaks website)



Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2017 02:26AM by steve benson.

It is VERY. Important to remember that in the upper circles of church power there are additional benefits that are never on their pay checks:

Food services, including chefs on call
Chauffeurs
New vehicles
Free luxury housing, often with multiple properties
Book deals
Forgivable loans
Initial calling stipends to eliminate all debt once called
Free access to premier vacation properties
Insider business access to church construction, investments, etc

All of this easily puts apostles in the millionaire club. Don't believe me? Drive by the late BKP estate in sandy. A seminary teacher under church employ his entire like living in a 4 millon plus home.

So basically they live just like Jesus, only rich off the members.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2017 12:51AM by sb.

Curious why they get a parsonage allowance if their home is free?

stipends aren't subject to income taxes, correct?

I have a feeling that the $120,000 is just the milk. The meat is in the perks.

I think it's hilarious that the Q15 get an allowance for a "parsonage" -- which is normally a free home provided by a congregation to their church's very modestly paid minister.

I, too, think that the $120K is just their pocket money.

So let me get this straight..few months ago the tax return from canada gets posted and the area president of canada is pulling down 247000 if i remember correctly...and i would assume perks besides...such as house cars maids...whatever..not sure...most leaders in ces make in excess of 100 k...so our mighty afossils are grinding away on peon wages...i doubt it...tommy and gordy are both long time church employees...yet tommys driving an 800000$ audi around...tscc strikes again using our own wiki leaks against us...there isnt a tbm alive that will even choke on 120 k a year for their beloved peofits support...one thing that makes sense to me is they carefully hide what actual reimbursements are just as they do mission presidents...cant be looking too prosperous for tax exempt purposes now can we??...i might be w rong but theres just no way afossils are grinding it out on half what their canadian bagboy is...im saying the church leaked this bs ...hawkins hits a double in the bottom of the ninth

Then theres dieters nice little shack in red ledges that was for sale last year...if memory serves it was in that 2.1 million range...poor buggers are living like hobos...its deplorable these men must suffer these indignities...yeah everyone banking 120 a year has a cabin like that besides an upscale house in a nice neighborhood in the just under a million range...that german airline musta really like dieters work

Maybe if you do a good enough job of cleaning the toilets in your local ward house, some day you too can be promoted in to the ranks of those GAs that make a stipend of $120K+. That's not going to happen and we all know it. The question is: when will the sheeple stop paying tithing, stop cleaning the ward houses, and stop supporting these fatcat church leaders?

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe if you do a good enough job of cleaning the
> toilets in your local ward house, some day you too
> can be promoted in to the ranks of those GAs that
> make a stipend of $120K+.

This provides a very good reason for none of them to "defect," and come clean about their doubts, and knowledge the church is a lying sack of money bags. People ask here all the time why there hasn't been a defector among the "top" players...here's why.

That's so true my TBM sister hits me with "if the church is false then why hasn't anyone in authority come clean"? Because they are paid off. She doesn't get it, I give up trying. And it's not just the base line salary, hell most of us on this site could live comfortably just off the perks. Free housing, food,first class travel, transportation, health care not mention being treated like royalty each time you travel.

I personally think any GA who demonstrated doubts, and became a possible threat of disclosure, would "take ill" and "pass on." wink wink

The correct term is "used up".

Whatever happened to the "no paid clergy" claim from the past?

And can someone who knows tell me what are the:

Child allowance (did he have a child in 2000?)

Parsonage (what is this?)

And why all stubs say "Monthly salary = 0" ?

A parsonage is a church minister's residence, often located next to or close to the church. The church congregation provides a residence to their minister who is often paid very modestly. This used to be the norm in Catholicism -- I'm not sure if it's still this way. It's also sometimes called a vicarage, I believe. There are probably other names for it as well.

There is a home next to our church which houses 2-3 priests at a time for our parish. The average salary for a priest in our diocese is $18,000/yearly.

Possibly, the arrangement may still satisfy a technicality. Perhaps the church could insist that the senior clergy are not "paid," merely "remunerated" or possibly "reimbursed." (I have no idea if that's true. Just throwing it out there.)

Parsonage is IRS verbage regarding allowance for housing paid by a CHURCH to a pastor or in-kind free housing provided by a church. So if the LDS, Inc businesses pay GAs an allowance for housing do the same IRS rules apply? LDS, Inc wants to play this both ways, they want tax benefits for being a church but they want to tell their membership the funds don't come from their church donations.

Really think the IRS needs to look into their books.

Don't forget that Monson is chauffeured in a $800,000 factory armored Audi A8 L Security. If he needs that kind of car, the assumption must also be that people really hate his guts.

What I HATE is when they stipulate that none of the money they spend on "living allowances" or malls or hunting preserves or whatever comes from tithing of the members but on money from investments. Who the fuck cares???? It's all church money. If they have enough to waste on crap like that, why don't they give the members who struggle the most a break on the tithing. AND I call bullshit on the "not coming from tithing" thing. They know they can say that and no one will dispute it because no one gets any kind of accounting of where the money goes.

The budget of other churches is made up of donations, investments, fundraisers, or whatever. We add it ALL up as what our assets or income are, and plan our expenses accordingly. Mormon money all initially comes from what was GIVEN to the church. Where did the money to invest come from? But I know that line placates the members cause you hear them say it all the time. I just say "so WTF does that matter?" If they're going to pay people who work for the church out of investments, then pay janitors the same way. But their dufas accountants obviously can't come up with a way to show them how they would MAKE money by paying janitors. They pay someone who would otherwise be on church welfare to do a job that nobody else wants to do and that is a catalyst for people wanting to do more research into the church to be sure they're wasting their Saturday Mornings for something bigger (i.e. celestial salvation). When they find out they're just being used, it's much easier to leave. And take their money with them. They would get 10% of what they pay the janitors back anyways because you know being a full tither would be a stipulation of employment.

I can't help but speculate that this may break the proverbial shelf for some Mormons eventually. It's got to cause some erosion in an already shaky foundation. This is actually very revealing news by Mormonleaks because most Mormon family's sacrifice Christmas at year end to pay 100% tithe. To now see that the Q70 (x140) get a tax free cool 120K+. Assuming an average income of 50K for the 3 million active sheepie - that would piss me off if I was a hard working Mormon.

I had a GA son tell me on my mission back in 1985 that his Q70 dad pulled in 50K per year. That was a lot of cash back then. My mom worked in a factory and my dad slaved away a plumber in knee deep shit daily - both salaries didn't pull in that much. It pissed me off back then.

They always say "funds are not from tithing" The mall, not tithing, Hotels, not tithing, etc, etc. ( it's all BS ) but ok, then where are the billions each year in tithing going?

I am in no way defending the church, but that 'when you become an apostle you get $1 million" line has always seemed really out there to me. Other than Tom Phillips or grant Palmer or whoever it was that first made that claim, is there any evidence that apostles really get $1 million when they become apostles? I understand apostles getting 'free loans' or whatever if they have debt, but the whole million dollar thing sounds like a really arbitrary and possibly made up number. I'm not saying that there isn't some kind of bonus that you get for becoming an apostle or something like that, I'm just asking for proof. There's also the fact that when apostles join the quorum, or even when they become general authorities, some of them are already independently wealthy. My guess is that Dallin H Oaks was not hurting for money when he became an apostle. I'm guessing that Russell M Nelson was also probably pretty well off when he became an apostle as well, being a famous heart surgeon and all that. I can't see it making any fiscal sense for the church to just throw money, especially extra money on top of the stipends that they already get, at already wealthy men.

Once again I would like to emphasize that I am not defending the church. I just think the best way to help people who want to leave the church or provide good recovery is with factual information, not rumors and hearsay, and this one has always definitely struck me as a whopper.

I'm sure someone is going to accuse me of being an apologist for saying this, but whatever. I've been suspicious of this specific claim for a long time.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2017 04:07PM by midwestanon.

yeah you're a frickin' apologist. Just kidding. I admire your critical thinking skills. I would like to see some proof of the Q15's "living allowance", and hopefully Mormonleaks or somebody else in the COB will come forward someday. I think those bottom feeding bastards in the Q15 get paid a lot more than 120K. They're all retired...how nice it would be to be able to bank a cool mill per year after 65. The whole things reminds me of the Tom Cruise move, The Firm.

Or convince someone's wife that it was safe to end their previous career...

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/76/762195e1666497074ede151e0cbeb39738a411d967572cbbe24b90cf8db6011f.jpg

You are correct that negative information about the church should be accurate. I am sure that some wealthy GAs may not take from the church, all that the church is willing to give to them, and that not every GA gets a forgivable loan, or that the amount is always a million dollars.

At the same time, we don't want to downplay the real facts here, the most aggregious of which is the secracy about how much money the church pays to their General Authorities.

In the temple ceremony that I went through, the church would condemn protestant preachers for accepting payment for their work, while making significantly more money in most cases than those protestant preachers get, and yet claiming to not get paid themselves. If mormon church leaders were honest with their members and disclosed information that the membership has a right to know, people might tend to he fair to them in return. That's human nature. But in the spirit of credibility, it never pays to attack the church with false information. There is enough information that is both true and negative about the church, that there is no need to make up things to condemn the church about. They're just hiding those things well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2017 11:31PM by azsteve.

The apostles have to give up their wealth and deed it all to the church. They are left totally without their savings, stocks, bonds, bank accounts, houses, whatever, in exchange for becoming an apostle. But they receive back and still get to live a very high-rolling lifestyle, receiving not only their generous "allowance," but every perk and convenience necessary. The rub is that if they ever fall out of favor with the church, they lose everything, and are left totally without savings, investments, and house. Where will they go? What will they do? One might well ask.

I believe this is the driving motivation for never speaking out when they are the first people to know about the lying and deception. This is likely why they choose not just rich white guys primarily from Utah, but men who are related through blood, marriage, friendship, and business, men who are all well-vetted years in advance. Grant Palmer had something to say about this, linking the incestuous relationship of LDS leadership with paranoia.

Wow...it even said.."paycheck"...which denotes a job...with TAXES..

Exactly. It's a nice round number. That's why it seems... Phony. Like some presiding bishop or church president just said one day 'let's incentivize people to become Apostles, one of the most coveted posts in the Mormon world, with a million-dollar reward for automatically becoming a member of the quorum, even though there are probably a lot of Mormons out there who would do it for free just for the perks and for the Adoration one receives by the teeming masses"

Yea. Just doesn't fit.

And yes- the most concerning thing to me is not the specific numbers or what general authorities or Apostles or whoever makes at least that isn't the most concerning thing YET- it's the secrecy in which it is shrouded. The total unwillingness of the church to have any Financial transparency is what leads people to make these sorts of claims, or go digging for the kind of things that Mormonleaks went digging for. And it sounds like Mormonleaks actually found some pretty credible information. When you don't give the people the access to the information they deserve, they're going to go digging until they find out more information than you ever wanted them to know.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2017 12:10AM by midwestanon.

The problem isn't how much they make, $120K plus EXCELLENT benefits isn't a TON of money. However, its REALLY comfortable.

The probably the church is running into is it's lack of transparency, and not calling a spade a spade. Calling it a living allowance or a stipend connotation is disingenuous. That makes it sound like they live hand to mouth like a monk serving the church. They are trying to portray "piety" when the truth is a much better way of being.

It's a freaking paycheck, its their salary, and its very comfortable way of life while they are worshipped as heroes.

They have an honesty problem pure and simple. It's a loop-sided balance of power when authority demands transparency from you while not be transparent themselves.

And beyond that, the Mormon church may be encouraging tax evasion by telling those church officials receiving a "stipend" not to declare it on their tax forms. I would love to see a government investigation on this.

You are so correct about this. I was in Indianapolis when the FBI laid a "soft" seige to a non-mo "temple" because the leaders refused to pay income taxes on its "employees." The place was shut down and sold.

"Investigator" could take on a whole new meaning for TSCC. While imho, "charitable institutions" should be made to qualify that status by the percentage of actual charity the institution contributes, income taxes must be paid - those individuals avail themselves of local and federal benefits on a daily basis.

I don't know that there is a religious exemption for mis-classification of employees.