I read on another thread about a FB conversation between a TBM and an exmo. The exmo brought up a lot of the biggies that IMO should be big red flashing lights to any TBM. This TBM shut down and quickly backed out of the conversation without addressing any of the questions posed by the exmo. It's a very common response.

That got me thinking.

Did you find your own way out or did someone show you the way?

How many of us responded with doubt to these types of questions from exmo's while we were TBM?

Can we truly encourage any TBM to start finding the answers to these "biggie" questions?

Has anyone on this board had "success" with a TBM?

Within a week, without posting, my letter was in. I started posting after resigning. Throughout my recovery process, I also joined and participated in an ex-Mormon boards on Facebook. Through the process, I received two Facebook emails from lurkers. I answered their questions as best I could and directed them here for ones I couldn't answer. Both left. I still keep in touch even though I've never met them personally.

I keep hoping by mentioning information here and there that my Jack-Mormon sister will leave before she has kids. (She's already told me that she wants to raise them Mormon even though she doesn't believe.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2010 01:24AM by tiff.

I have Gordon B Hinckley to thank for getting out of mormonism. He recommended that the membership watch the PBS produced video about mormon history back in April of 2007.

My wife and I watched the show together. Polyandry came up and I had never heard of it. It was corroborated by Dalin Oaks and Ballard. My jaw dropped to the floor.

I called my dad, my father-in-law, my brother and a good friend to find out if they had ever heard of polyandry. They had not.

It took me about 18 months (because of a failing mortgage business) before I started to seriously investigate what this polyandry thing was all about. It all unraveled very quickly- I knew it was all a fraud within about 2 weeks.

Thank you Mr Hinckley.

For the most part. Sure there was things that influenced me to look deeper into it, but mostly I did it on my own.

I did have to find out through the internet how to officially have my records removed.

As far as doctrine went, I figured out that it was complete BS on my own. I stared questioning what the church was saying in my mid-teens. I believe asking questions is important. A lot of things didn't add up or jive with science, etc. Every time I would ask about these problems, I would get answers like "You don't need to concern yourself with that" or "God can do anything, and it's not for us to question". To me that was a complete cop-out! If the church is right then it shouldn't have a problem answering questions and facing scrutiny. The fact is they don't have the answers, never had and never will. End of story.

If I may since I'm at home listening to Motorhead's I don't Believe A Word, I'd like to leave you with this lyric:

Don't talk to me, I don't believe a word
Don't try to make me feel alright
All the love in all the world
Is not enough to save my soul tonight
Don't be my friend I'm not a fool
Don't talk of things that we cannot see
When all the ones that sing the blues
Sometimes I think of how it used to be



Who would win in a fight between Lemmy and God?
That's a trick question, Lemmy is God!

Humans must be developmentally ready and open to learning or it doesn't happen. Anyone who doesn't see a need to check out church condradictions won't do it.

I found out about the at least 3 versions of the "first" vision. I came home after 4 months. It took another 10 years for me to be done with it. This site was a major help with that. I live in Michigan and had no idea how wacked out Utah Mormon culture is, and how hypocritical.

The first time I specifically remember feeling the scary sense of vertigo, the first time the explicit thought that the church might not be true occured, was reading about Mountain Meadows in 2007.
Five years earlier I ran across an apologetic version, which did a good job of blaming it on local hysteria. But, it had left out the nauseating details. The more explicit versions I was reading almost made me vomit, and my head ached and reeled for hours.
But it wasn't the massacre itself that made me suspicious of the church. The massacre simply wasn't in the intererst of the church in the first place, and though I think Young was grossly negligent for waging a stand-off with the US, I'm convinced that he would have seen the seige as a liability and that he really did try to call it off.
What made me suspicious of the church was it's disingenuous preemptive publicity, releasing an apologetic version of events to head off the movie September Dawn. It was all about protecting the church and Brigham Young, and focusing blame on local scapegoats even more, and even making the church out as a victim. They stooped the LOWEST by getting the one or two LDS descendants of massacre victims they could find to make statements in favor of the church!
But I might have gotten over that, with the victims a century and a half removed.
The crack that turned into a fissure for me was the FLDS news, i.e., bottom line: stagutory rape/child-polygamy.
Same disingenuous spin from the church, distancing, denying, shifting blame, but most of all a TOTAL DISREGARD for contemporary child-victims. This, much more than MMM, made the brethren sweat and squirm. Polygamy's still on the books and they know it. Hinckley's "I don't think it's doctrinal" was a HUGE WTF? to me. Huh???
What I didn't understand was why the church didn't try to defend the difference between false polygamy and true polygamy. See, I didn't yet know what they knew, that the church's history was even more damning than FLDS news on TV. I didn't know about Fanny Alger and Helen Mar Kimball et al. I still thought evil "antis" were lying and making it look bad, and if the church would just speak up and own it, they could at least win back some FLDS if not pacify the mob.
But from then on I didn't trust Joseph Smith, BEFORE I'd ever heard of his victims. The fissure never closed.
Meanwhile a guilt/jealousy complex based largely on my dogmatic worldview almost drove me to suicide ('nother story). My testimony finally collapsed at a specific date and time. I finally thought the church CAN"T be true after propping it up and stretching credulity to the limit and adopting all kinds of deformed reasoning. Like an ill-designed and built structure, it just collapsed under it's own weight.
THEN I researched it, and found all the facts and research out there that, for the average consumer, blow the deal in a few minutes.

I was stuck with. I have a home teacher to thank for being downright nasty and actually showing me the exit door.

Bingo. That was the beginning of the end.
I was ready to figure out "what's wrong with this picture" and all I needed was a place to start. They actually left the LDS Church officially a year before I did.

Do you remember what that site was Susie?

Yes.

Whatever I learned in my first year at Utah State University in 1960-61 made me realize that the mormon god did not exist.

That was all it took for me to get out.

I have never gotten over, for some reason, the sense of betrayal about being lied to about the nature of god.

I did not know about any of the other lies until I got onto the Internet a few years ago.

Just in case you are wondering: my position now on god is that, if IT is, then the human mind has no way of ascertaining ITS nature, ITS properties.

Too bad the English language does not have a non gender specific pronoun that does not dehumanize. But it still was beautiful.

I stumbled onto information about the First Vision on the internet while researching a Primary Sharing Time. I was in the Primary presidency at the time and had absolutely no idea the church was a fraud. I had no reason to look harder at the church's claims or teachings. I wasn't very happy, but I blamed other things. When I realized I was being lied to, I started investigating immediately - on my own. In fact, realizing there was no one who I could talk to about Mormonism was a huge eye opener for me as to what kind of "religion" Mormonism is.

In all honesty, I can't say I was totally on my own though - being able to hash out things on this board, even when it was just a dumb rant about something that was bothering me, was a lifesaver. I don't know how people left in the old days, before the internet. I don't know if I would have had the courage, because I still have very few people I can talk to in person about stuff. Thankfully, I've found several other friends that have gone exmo and made some non-LDS friends and reconnected with a few non-LDS friends from high school who were willing to forgive me for dumping them when I went all Molly at BYU. I'm very grateful to my understanding friends who are just happy I've escaped the Morg.

It was thanks to Hinckly himself. No one else, not the lying backstabbing stealing members, nope it was Hinkly.

Across my desk came the Federal Court findings of his stealing. They told the plaintiff he had a case and to take it through the state court, but the rest of it they nailed Hink on charges.

So I thought this is true, but lets see if there is any evidence of 'birds of a feather flock together'. Mr. Cook was 'called' soon after to fill a vacancy in the quorum of the 12. I googled him and found the newspaper articles that described his activites in California as "the most brilliant theft of a public property' that had ever happened. Well, Hink the Stink had called a thief into the twelve.

I was aware of the mandatory 'chipping' laws that were being pushed at us at the time and Hink wanted everyone to have a bar coded TR! The church wanted to bar code something that I could not know what data was put on it and who had access to the information. I also consider a bar code to be a quasy legal way of entering into a commercial contract and the TSCC wasn't about to tell me what the terms of the contract were!

That was it. I went inactive. Resigned my church job, told the newly called Bishop I'm going on sabatocal leave and stopped going to church.
I'd had a daughter who'd left about two years before who told me of this board.

I still believed the BOM was true (I have a first edition before all the editing) and just thought JS was a mislead profit who was 'repenting' when he got killed. Within three months of being here and reading all the links and exit stories and FACTS about the history of the church (quoted from real church sources) I knew I was done.

The whole thing is a crock of crooks and I'm never going back.

Mormon Observer, I am interested in what you are talking about with the legal troubles of Hinckster and Cook. Can you elaborate a little? Maybe a new thread. Thanks.

I've also never heard of this. More info please.

Yes, I got out on my own. Through much prayer and fasting, both of which failed miserably.

As a TBM, yes I engaged in so-called discussions with "those anti-mormons". My opinion is that they were all "angry". Of course, I was "taught" that they were angry and bitter, so I viewed them as angry and bitter whoever they were.

So, anyway, a Priest from our YM group approached me rather timidly and said he had been told in school that Mormons were a cult. I sensed he was troubled so I had to play the part of mentor. My encouraging response to the boy? Snicker and said "no, we're not". Just that. No info, no counter argument, nothing to help the boy back our claims. So, he again timidly told me why their teacher said we were a cult. I didn't even listen to a word as he fired off a list, but let him finish. What was my TBM response? I clucked and shook my head disapprovingly and said, "They just don't know the truth".

How ironic! I had zero to offer but "they" didn't know the truth. I cringe when I think about this exchange.

So you see, it's futile to "discuss" with TBMs the "truth" about their cult. They "know" you're just an angry, bitter exmo.

and his minions because I fell into temptation and wanted to sin and was weak--oh and I was offended also. Ya. That's the ticket! :-)

Each "side" sees the other as deceived.

"I fell into temptation and wanted to sin and was weak--oh and I was offended also. "


Yes. I'm sure we've all heard this. My MIL thinks it's because we don't want to live up to our commitments or live the WoW. DH tried to explain we are more than willingly to be committed to something we believe is the truth.

I got out completely on my own. I knew about polygamy, but not a lot of details. Didn't know about polyandry. Didn't know about all the versions of the first vision.

My journey of being the girlfriend/wife of someone gay--the falling apart of my marriage.

The things I KNEW were that not only had he tried everything to change or to "control it"--I had also tried everything. I KNEW in my heart that no matter what I did or he did--that he would always be gay and THAT WAS OKAY. From the start, there was always that nagging feeling in my HEART and HEAD that he COULDN'T and DIDN'T NEED TO change. Then the leaders would tell me he HAD TO CHANGE (not just not act on it--in 1983). My logic told me otherwise. The messages that I got were so confusing--that I had to figure it out myself. It took a while, but stepping away from the church was the thing that helped the most.

When I first found out, I think I spent more time on my knees than anywhere else. I would fall asleep praying. I always refer to it that the heavens were slammed shut. I'd fast and fast and fast--and get bishop blessings. I never got much of anything but "stupors of thought."

I was LONG GONE by the time I found this board. I didn't know of anyone else who no longer believed--I only knew jackmormons or inactive mormons.

For many, the history is easy to shelf. They really don't think deeply about it. They don't have to face polygamy today, so they don't worry much about it.

Now--my younger brother--he went inactive in his teens. He kept asking me (and sometimes still will)--YOU REALLY DON'T BELIEVE? I have given him permission to finally say he no longer believes. He has even stated it that way--that I have given him permission to finally let go. He is 42.

>>Now--my younger brother--he went inactive in his teens. He kept asking me (and sometimes still will)--YOU REALLY DON'T BELIEVE? I have given him permission to finally say he no longer believes. He has even stated it that way--that I have given him permission to finally let go. He is 42.



This breaks my heart.

I believe there are many people out there just like my brother--in fact 3 of my siblings are in his position. My younger sister has finally admitted she doesn't believe. They all went inactive in their teens. They felt they were such horrible sinners that there was no hope for them.

My brother now and then will "confess" to me some of his "sins" and I remind him that I don't believe that bs any longer.

I was the GOOD child--the perfect little mormon. When he came to live with me after his divorce (we were both going through divorces), when we'd sit in my back yard and talk and he'd smoke, he'd say, "I never wanted YOU to see me smoke." Personally, I love smokers. To me, they are FREE. I know that sounds stupid--but that is how I always felt.

Anyway, he'd also say to me, "If I had just done everything right, I wouldn't be going through THIS" and I'd say, "Hey, look at me?!?!?" I still have many people say, "But you did everything right and look at what happened to your life."

BUT the fact that my siblings' "perfect" mormon sister is the one who DOESN'T BELIEVE really has given them freedom to not believe. My dad also used to share all his doubts with me once he realized "I" didn't believe. I really was their "golden" mormon child.

I think a lot of it is just go about living your life. If they bring it up--talk to them about it. My family listens (most of them). It is actually quite amazing how many just really need permission to not believe.

but the the huge wake up for me was this exchange by GBH with Larry King:
LK: We'll cover some little bit about the faith and then lots of issues. Why are you a Mormon?
GBH: I believe in it. I believe very strongly in it. I come from a Mormon background...
WHAT??!! I golden missionary chance to declare and explain to millions of non-member viewers that there is a prophet of God in these later days, like Moses and Abraham of old, and instead the response, "I Believe in it" is the best that can be done. And this from the man who has a Special Witness of Christ? I've never gotten over it...

I came out mostly on my own. What made me question the church? Um, READING THE BIBLE. I got constantly told that I must have been reading anti-material or else I would not be questioning the church.

A friend of mine (who is now my husband years later) told me that he was concerned about my belief in the church, and challenged me to read the Bible in it's entirety. It was sad, I had read the BoM in it's entirety many times, but I had never been encouraged to read the Bible. So I did, and by the time I was done reading and saw the insane contradictions between the two scriptures I had to ask myself: do I trust God and Jesus, or do I trust a bunch of old geezers in SLC?

So yeah, unless they consider the Bible "anti" material. : )

I was pro ERA before TSCC took a stand. I was "angry" I was being told not to support the ERA. I had daughters. At the same time I had been doing verbal battle over the Black PH ban for several years with members and my SP exFIL. I never had that racist gene in me. I also had a big problem with DC 132 when my exH told me he would be sealed to another if I died. I felt I was 2nd class on every level in Mormonism. Since my great Aunties told me polygamy horrors in my family, I realized they all were terrified of being in the CK sharing the husband. My exH went to the bishop to spill my apostate views, and I was in a Court of Love within 10 days. I was in another state at the time, visiting family. The neighbors, known as the bishopric, determined I could "just" be disfellowshipped if I went back to my TBM husband and kept my mouth shut on my apostate views. I flatly refused. I was excommunicated for apostasy, conduct unbecoming, and not upholding and sustaining the prophet. (Spencer W. Kimball). That was Saturday night. It was announced on Sunday morning at PH meeting and also SM... where my children sat with their Father.

My family shunned me, my exH tried to take my children from me on grounds I had the spirit of the devil in my home, I lost my home and moved my children the very day the 2nd councelor to the bishop's daughter told my 6 year old I was a whore....on the school playground.

I lost every lifetime friend, my family was in tatters as I went from the golden child to something disposable. The communications consisted of calling to chastise me when they spoke to me at all. My exH continued to push me to get back into Mormonism and remarry him. Those were hard years that changed me forever, but...

It was all worth it to live authentically. I am not sorry. Today I would resign, but this was prior to the time one could do such a thing. A support system of just cyber friends would have been more wonderful than you know. It was pretty lonely and tough, but decades later I am still here to tell the tale.

I couldn't have gotten out if it wasn't for the people on this website. In 2004 I went looking for information about why mormon women (ahem...me) were so depressed. I stumbled across RFM and it was the beginning of the end.

I shared what I found with those around me and successfully led my husband, sister, and brother out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2010 04:17PM by violet.

And let's hope that is the way it is for many exmos in the future. It took YOU though to make it happen. Always remember that. Someone has to begin the process of educating.

Working in the church, and also working for church institutions, showed me that Mos have no special divine spirit among them. Major errors on the part of DW and priesthood leaders showed me there was no Holy Spirit or divine discernment among them. Violations of covenants and casual dismissal of doctrines when "convenient", showed me the emptiness and spiritual bankruptcy of the "saints of gawd". And Mo political agendas showed me their willingness to support wars without end, and to inflict collateral punishment on any unfortunate soul that was in the wrong place at the wrong time, showed me that there is no love or compassion among the LDS leadership.

Then, at the public library, I happily found and read Quinn's "Early Mormonism and the magical world view" (is that the correct title?), which really got me thinking. Then later, the internet came along, and RFM, and I soon was a complete non-believer and apostate.

But the truth is, I started to have serious doubts soon after joining 40 years ago, while at BYUH. But I put a lot of stuff I knew about "on the shelf", because I didn't have access to info. I have never been afraid to notice errors, or to ask difficult questions, or to think logically. And I would even (gasp!) criticize leaders! I mostly stayed active as long as I did because of an unhealthy relationship with a controlling Mobot DW.

It's great to be out...

It all started with the heaped upon 'guilt' for just existing and being born and surviving past age 8.

Then being told all of the 'Faith Promoting Rumors', taking the time to validate them, and then getting a million sidepaths in the stories that then led into other historical aspects that the church lets exist, but will never overtly tell you.

Kinderhook plates really set the stage for me to begin my in depth study, add a dose of Journal of Discourses and all the contradictory BS spouted over the pulpit and you have a recipe for the current church being completely different than the 'Restored Church'. There truly needs a Restoration of even the Restoration now...

In the UK, I had heard of No Man Knows My History, but had never seen a copy. And knew nobody who had.

I knew nothing of the multiple first vision versions and the like.

I struggled hard to know the truth and relied on prayer which eventually gave me the answer that it wasn't true and that I should leave.

I had my first doubts almost immediately after baptism. However, they weren't niggling enough for me to worry about at that point in time.
As the months went on, I struggled with the WoW, as I used to love going to pubs and having a drink. Eventually, after about a year of membership in the church, I no longer felt guilty of having an occasional drink and somehow knew instinctively that the WoW wasn't divinely revealed.

This sounds so cliched, but the episode of Star Trek:The next generation where Picard is captured by the Borg floored me. I saw so many parrallels between the Borg and the church as a whole as to make me seriously reconsider my religion.

Then, after a year of semi-inactivity, I attended sacarament for the last time on 10th Jan 1993. One of the Bishopric asked why I was away and I told him I visited my Grandfather who was now taken into a carehome. The Bishop-prick said church was more important. My Grandfather died the next day and I haven't been to a sacrement meeting or worship service since, although on a couple of occasions down the years, I had 'flirted' with the idea of returning.

Right up until I Googled 'exmormon' in 2004, I had doubts; things like "Maybe it's true? It could be the only church" running through my mind. But after maybe only 10 minutes of reading the main site, I knew it was all B.S and became extremely angry about it for maybe a year.

Finally, I just thought I'd mention I only paid tithing 4 times in 18 months of activity, never went through the temple ceremony and didn't get into a marriage whilst been a member.

Glad you didn't do the temple crap. Wish my convert daughter had not done it in Feb. But she did. I told her she would not feel a spiritual thing in that place. I told her she was going to learn signs and get a new name and asked her if God really expects this. No answer. One day I hope she leaves and tells me how weird it was. She recently got assigned to be a visiting teacher. Oh joy!!! Now she gets to report on people.

I agree with needing "permission" Years ago my inactive mom said to me " I believe that Joseph Smith thinks all those things happend to him ( the 1st vision etc.) but i don't believe it" What? You could'nt have told me this sooner? It was like i needed permission to think that it was all a load of crap. I really needed to know that it was okay not to believe it.