This thread springs from the Alan Thicke thread. The original post is about the fourth or fifth reply in that thread and reads as follows:

RIP to a classy actor and a genuinely good person.

***Hijack in progress, resolution coming soon.***

I have a dear friend who is a live-in, part-time employee at Alan's ranch in Carpenteria. I haven't called him yet, as I don't want to get in the way during the intense times that must be going on for those close to the family, but am sure that he and his wife are both grieving and also worried about what the future will bring.

To bring this back on subject of ex-Mormonism, as an atheist, I find it harder to communicate my empathy. "I'm sending prayers" now translates to "I'm dong nothing, but I'll invoke the name of a made-up, all-important sky-daddy to make the point that I care."

That message is idiotic to me now (I am not saying that believers are idiotic, but that non-believers using "sending prayers" as a means to express empathy is idiotic).

I do have my own thoughts on getting around this problem, and have a few things that I will be dong for my friend over the coming days and weeks, so this isn't a cry for help, but rather a request for thoughts and discussion on the subject to see what we can come up with.

***It just hit me that this is a major hijack, so please don't respond here. I'll leave this post here to direct traffic, but please let the thread here remain for condolences, reflection, and whatever else is appropriate for the OP's intentions. I'll start a new thread and post a link after a quick break to deal with a couple of other things.***

I'll cross-link the posts as soon as I figure out how to do so. If anyone accomplishes that for me before I get there, your effort would be greatly appreciated.

You're hijacking your own thread?

Thanks for noticing that. I do stupid stuff like that all of the time.

That's my super-power.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1915419,1915705#msg-1915705
Testing...is this a link? The preview makes me think it is.

Yes and no. It is a link, but to my post, not the start of the thread.

Correct link coming soon.

Link to original thread: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1915419,1915419#msg-1915419

I think you're trying to be comforting to a friend, and you're also trying to preserve your integrity. That's commendable. When I post to friends here who are hurting, unless I specifically know that they are a person of faith and REQUEST my prayers--I say sincere things, from the heart, meant to comfort them. If friends ask me to remember them in prayer, I say a private prayer naming them when I pray.

You can provide support and comfort for your friends in a way that is compatible with atheism. When you talk with them, acknowledge Alan's death and say to them that you know the death was difficult for them. You might say something like, "as a friend, I know this is difficult. I'm here for you. Please accept my sincere hope that you will find peace, healing, and comfort during your grieving for Alan."

My very best to you, to your friends, and to Alan's family--death is very hard.

I think it's appropriate to say, "I'm so sorry that Alan died. I know it must be a difficult time. You are both in my thoughts" or something similar.

I think the same sort of sentiment as 'sending prayers' can be expressed just as you suggest, summer. 'Sending good thoughts' to someone or about someone is pretty much the same as being in someone's prayers. I like the way you put it; it's more eloquent than what I came up with.

That will be difficult for the family.

It may mean the end of your friend's employment, if Alan's family sells off the ranch.

Since they've been living there too, they'll not only be needing to seek a new job, but a new place to live. A double whammy.

Sometimes the best you can do for a friend to show you care is to simply "be there." By being a good listener, showing empathy and compassion.

It's been my experience that when god-believers say, "Sending you my prayers," what they really mean is, "I'm thinking about you and care about you." They very often don't actually pray for you, or anything of the sort.

As an atheist, I skip the "prayers" part, and just say, "I'm thinking about you and care about you." Which is what well-meaning god-believers mean anyway. :)

Oh, and "Anything I can do do help?" is always welcome, too.

I'd argue that empathy from an atheist, agnostic, or otherwise freethinker/skeptic is likely more sincere and quite possibly more nurturing than that which emanates from a church-goer.

The former is direct, person to person, heart to heart. The latter is filtered by dogma, watered down by the rote cookie-cutter responses that defer emotions to some external fictional source.

This is not to say that theists are incapable of empathy. Rather, when they do sincerely offer love and support to those in need, it comes from their hearts, not from the myths to which they cling.

Thank you all for confirming that what I was thinking is appropriate and would most likely be well received.

In addition to being confident that I am sending the right message, I also am fortunate to be able to take care of a few of his personal obligations that would otherwise cost my friend a few hundred dollars over the next few months.

I am not saving him all that much money compared to what he is likely to face in finding a new place to live, but I am pretty sure that he would attempt to meet his obligations personally rather than hiring them done. I'm pretty sure that he has better uses for his time right now. By taking care of these things for him, it frees up enough time to handle other things that would probably cost him significantly more money.

You're a great friend. I'm sure it will be appreciated.

I've taken the Gallup strengths finder assessment and I know this about myself:

Empathy is my 2nd to lowest strength, just above belief.

So even as a TBM I could never muster a genuine "i'll pray for you" type sentiment. That hasn't changed.

Generally what I'll tell someone who's going through a struggle is, "let me know if you'd like to talk about it, or anything else." Mostly they just need to talk about their feelings, and have someone to share them with.

Time takes care of the rest.

kvothe Wrote:
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>> Time takes care of the rest.

There is more truth to this than we are usually able to believe during the heat of the moment. As a friend of mine often says, "sprinkle a little time on it."

Send him a card or do something as a gesture. Doing something always shows more empathy than words or doing nothing.

Religion did not invent grief and it did not invent empathy and caring. As far as I am concerned the "thoughts and prayers" thing has been beat to death. It is the same as the response, "Fine" when someone asks you how you are. Automatic. And, in many cases a cop out because most people don't know how to express empathy, especially many of the ultra religious. So they have this handy phrase to get them off the hook.

As an atheist,I like to acknowledge how tough something is for someone. It really helps to have someone validate your pain or your bad luck. And NEVER give examples of "someone else having it even worse," which only discounts their situation.

As an atheist, I can avoid the cliche of some horrific event being God's will. Saying that discounts the pain as well. I would never say, "Heavenly Father needed your loved one worse than you." I can't even believe I hear that from time to time.
Again, acknowledge the pain. "I hope you find the strength to handle such a tough situation. Instead, "I wish you all the understanding and comfort possible as you work through the sorrow."

I like the meme going around showing two lazy lay-about cats that the guy says he "named Thoughts and Prayers because they are useless." I sent that to someone who was really down and said they "weren't getting any thoughts and prayers from me." They laughed hard for the first time in a while. They know they can tell me anything and I will listen and do what I can. Just because.

In the end we all know we need to do most of the heavy lifting ourselves when we're down, but knowing anybody really gets what we are going through means a lot.

As for hugs, a loaf of bread, bowls of soups, or a few dollars . . .those depend on the situation. They always help though. No need to name any of those things Thoughts and Prayers.

For funerals, flowers a week or a month later rather than right away often have an exceptional impact.


P.S. I know many really sincerely mean it when they offer thoughts and prayers.